sea colonies!

[J-S]

Originally posted by Overlag
Call to power had Space AND Sea cities.

Yeah, I still re-install CTP 1 every now and then. It definitely made a classic IMO. I remember I used to love building a space base right on top of the enemy's main cities for launching units down on them. Death from above! hehe

 

[slothman]

The problem with coast colonies is that I don't think the AI would use them proberly so it would be too much of a benifit to the player.

 

[J-S]

slothman: hmm... I didin't think of that. I'll try playing for a bit on the scenario I posted earlier and see if the AI uses sea colonies at all. aaaaah, the AI...

 

[Cantankerous]

Originally posted by J-S
Cantankerous:
I'm not sure about that whole building roads on ocean tiles... would it be possible to move land units through roads on ocean tiles? I am totally on board with the rest tho: only on coast tiles and have the number of coast resources raised so that it's worth to build cities on them.

J-S:

I didn't think I said anything about building roads on ocean tiles. (How would you do that, anyway?)

The discussion seemed to be about how to connect sea colonies to a player's empire. I was suggesting that one way to do that would be to make your sea colonies in coastal tiles, and since coastal tiles are always next to land, a coastal sea colony would then always be adjacent to a tile where you could build a road and connect the sea colony to your empire.

Just trying to suggest a solution to how to connect a sea colony.

Cantankerous

 

[Overlag]

if you can add oil to ONLY sea squares on the map surely the AI will try and get it with the sea cities???

isnt there a way in the mod editor to make Citys on water automaticaly build harbours? I wouldnt allow them to build airports though.

 

[Nder]

I think the Sea Cities should only be in Sea tiles, not coastal or ocean.

Kal-el made this suggestion in an earlier post on this subject:

Originally posted by Kal-el
But you could also allow a new settler unit to build cities in water tiles and a new worker unit that can build roads in the water. It would look pretty ugly, but I think it would work. I don't know how the AI would handle it, and I suggest not allowing roads in coastal tiles otherwise you will see bridges across the Pacific, and that might be a bit odd.

He then went on to say in another post:

Originally posted by Kal-el
I guess I would recommend that the water cities only be buildable in the Sea, not the ocean or the coast. I also recommend that you only allow roads in the Sea and not the ocean or the coast. This will prevent transocean bridges and will also prevent ground forces from attacking your Sea Cities without transports.

Again, I have no idea how the AI will react to this. I think you definitely do not want to allow settlements in the ocean as that will give the AI just way too much room to plant useless cities.

The Ocean Liner (troop transport) available in the Units forum might make a good Sea Settler unit.

I can't think of any good sea worker units, but I guess for now the Civ3 transport would work.

here is the original thread

I think he makes some good points.

Cantankerous:
Coastal tiles are not always connected to land. There are times when there will be 3 coastal tiles separating two pieces of land. I think Kal-els suggestion of restricting cities and colonies to Sea tiles and creating a new worker unit that can build roads and colonies in sea tiles is a good solution. It would allow for the isolated Sea City that was mentioned earlier and if you built a harbor or an airport in that city you would be attached to your trade network.

I am really interested in seeing if this will work.

And remember you are modding the game here, so you can edit how much food, etc. sea tiles give, to help ensure that these Aquacities grow beyond level 1. Plus with a harbor the food is increased and you could create another improvement like the DyP Fishery which succesfully adds even more food to water tiles.

 

[Architekt]

Can anyone post a screen shot of a sea colony?

 

[Nder]

This unit would make a good Sea Worker

All we need now is for somebody with 3DS Max to convert it to a Civ3 flic.

 

[GIDustin]

Very interesting idea, however I am thinking the AI will not know how to handle it. Great idea for multiplayer games with many people though


GIDustin

 

[Kal-el]

there is only one way to find out if the AI will handle it properly. Test it.

 

[Neomega]

sounds like it might have potential in me future mod, now for some innovative ways to implement it..... I do believe as ea settler would be used by the AI.... have to do some testing.....

 

[Jandor]

A sea city fortress would be almost unstoppable. Only marines can attack it. Put in quite a few Mech Infantry and some artillary...surround it with subs and battleships....

Actually im not sure, but i think sea cities still count as sea underneath, so only boats will be able to take the city

hmm... I didin't think of that. I'll try playing for a bit on the scenario I posted earlier and see if the AI uses sea colonies at all. aaaaah, the AI...

what the hell does that mean did they use it or not ?

it would be great with miniturization to build sea cities, im going to work on a mod with it in after PTW comes out

If you give a sea settler the "Settler" flag in AI bit, then they should know what to do with it, and expand all over the sea like they do on land, 'Settler Diaharea' flushed straight into the sea

 

[erez87]

i found the first problem with sea cities (is it the first?)
when we build a wonder, like the pyramids, it's only to the continent...
1) sea does not count as continent...
2) what if we build the pyramids in a sea city, what more will be affected?

 

[Kal-el]

Good point, but remember thos wonder effects are really just gravy. Aquacities shouldn't have all the bonuses of Land Cities.

 

[Neomega]

I think sea cities would really be limited in growth, and enormously dependant on fish and whales.....

 

[PCHighway]

Hmm, the idea is intriguing but not practical. The only way I see it as interesting, in a scenario, definitely not a mod, and the scenario must have a map. It’s a shame we cant put Barbarian colonies and goodyhuts on ocean squares. then we could click 'default money resource' to whale, and basic barb to a boat-settler. I don’t think you can put land units on ocean cities either, at least you cant in the editor.

The 2 good things this does is

1.) Could make one hell of a mod, where most of the units are boats, (imagine the spearmen equivalent).

2.) we are one step closer to bridges.

 

[Kal-el]

The cities would be limited in growth if you left the Sea F/S/C levels at their original values. However, sinc eyou are modding the game in order to allow cities to be built in the Sea, it is easy and probably necessary to adjust the values of sea tiles. You might also consider increasing the values of ocean tiles.

 

[neorowen]

So everyone know, I tried the whole sea city idea. Here's the major problem; once you set any ocean square to "Allow City" it means anythign that can build a city can build a city there.

Want proof, early in the game make a galley and put a settler in it. Take the galley to the water type you set to "Allow City" and wake the settler there. The settler will be able to build a city.

This means that before the ancient times are over water city construction will be possible.

 

[Kal-el]

but the real question is how does the AI react.

 

[Redking]

This thread seems to have veered off topic.

Sea CITIES are lovely for those of you interested in futuristic mods, but COLONIES (ie, the ability to gather offshore resources) is a somewhat distinct matter, and a severe limitation of the game (IMO).

Personally, I think it more important that we have the ability to snag luxury and strategic resources from the water tiles. The game designers' omission of the "sea roads" was catastrophic, effectively disabling half of history.

Can't we concentrate on working around this?

Sea colonies attached to land roads is one good idea put forward.

And yes, minimalized sea "cities" acting strictly as colonies has merit. But it would require a graphic different from cities in order to be representative of its purpose in all but futuristic eras. So I don't think that'll work elegantly.

If someone could convince Firaxis to patch true trade roads, at least for the water tiles, then we could live happily ever after. Sea commerce would work, piracy would work, and that other half of history could finally be simulated (I found the suggestion on CivFanatics' cover page, that the game has educational merit as a sim, to be laughable... JMO).