Settling 1 tile away from coast

[KMadCandy]

random thoughts (yes i type and ramble a lot).

"Always avoid settling on resources (especially high-yield ones like gold)." i have two exceptions. if i see stone or marble on plains tile or plains hill, i love settling right on top of it. you don't have to feed the guy working it, and i play epic, it takes like forever to make a quarry. the city gets the bonus 1h (plains tile) or 2h (plains hill) every single turn of the game. compared to saving it for a citizen working a quarry, i lose a couple of hammers (and 1 commerce if it's marble), but i figure i'd not always be working it so it's an overall gain given my style.

i really like settling on fresh water when i can, for the health. that being said, i love flood plains and i *never* pass up a flood plain site just because of health fears. they cause health issues but i just flat don't care. you lose some food each turn when it's at the worst, but you're only losing the food because you have so much population due to having so much extra food. worst case, your population in that city fluctuates for a bit as it grows a pop and then starves a pop...i've learned not to feel too guilty about that. as the game goes on you get more options for improving health and you have a gloriously big beautiful city with so many options (cottages/farms/watermills).

i remember one early game when brennus (yes i remember who it was, i am still bitter!!!) settled right next to a sign i'd placed for a future city of my own. he settled ON a flood plain square. of course when i razed his city later, that tile had been changed to a desert (flood plains are only overlays, not resources, so they disappear). i went into WB and changed it back, cuz i deserved my FP dang it!

 

[lilnev]

Don't pay attention to the worst tiles in your BFC. They don't matter. So what if when you get to size 17 you've only got 16 tiles worth working? You've got a size 17 capital! It's the late game, and your empire is large. Pay attention to your best tiles. They're the ones that drive your early acceleration, and the ones you're going to be working all game long.

If my capital's BFC has 3 great tiles (say irrigated Corn, Cows, and Gold), 6 average tiles (plains or Grass, maybe a few hills) and 11 deserts, I'm happy. I've got Corn, Cows, and Gold! Look at me fly with a start like that! By the time I hit size 10, I'll own half the continent. I can even move the Palace if I want. But that's a monster start.

peace,
lilnev

 

[mrt144]

I agree with the last post. Its immaterial if 5 squares of your bfc are awful if you only will ever produce enough food to have 15 pop. i often fall into this trap where Im improving land that will never be worked because i forgot that the city can only grow to size 14 or 15 based on surroundings.

 

[KMadCandy]

I can even move the Palace if I want.

great point, i've done that myself a time or three. it's even pretty cheap (160 hammers vs 200 for forbidden palace).

 

[Mercenary82]

i love flood plains and i *never* pass up a flood plain site just because of health fears. they cause health issues but i just flat don't care. you lose some food each turn when it's at the worst, but you're only losing the food because you have so much population due to having so much extra food. worst case, your population in that city fluctuates for a bit as it grows a pop and then starves a pop...i've learned not to feel too guilty about that. as the game goes on you get more options for improving health and you have a gloriously big beautiful city with so many options (cottages/farms/watermills).

i remember one early game when brennus (yes i remember who it was, i am still bitter!!!) settled right next to a sign i'd placed for a future city of my own. he settled ON a flood plain square. of course when i razed his city later, that tile had been changed to a desert (flood plains are only overlays, not resources, so they disappear). i went into WB and changed it back, cuz i deserved my FP dang it!

I completley agree here, I love FP's and just can't stand the retarted AI wasting my FPs just cause their too lazy and impatient to move 1 more square over before settling. I had an even worse game recentley though, the AI Mansa Musa, who I hate even more than for this, had 3 cities placed on flood plains by the time I conquered him! I was so furious with him for this I made sure to raze all of his cities rather than accept his capitulation.

 

[LucyDuke]

i often fall into this trap where Im improving land that will never be worked because i forgot that the city can only grow to size 14 or 15 based on surroundings.

I don't think it's a mistake to improve the land. It allows you to be flexible, if, say, you need a temporary boost in commerce at the expense of hammers. And when your workers run out of important things to do, it's that or useless roads. If you reach Biology, it might end up paying off.

 

[mrt144]

I don't think it's a mistake to improve the land. It allows you to be flexible, if, say, you need a temporary boost in commerce at the expense of hammers. And when your workers run out of important things to do, it's that or useless roads. If you reach Biology, it might end up paying off.

well, i forgot to mention when youre improving squares that wont be work instead of ones that will be in other cities

 

[KMadCandy]

I don't think it's a mistake to improve the land. It allows you to be flexible, if, say, you need a temporary boost in commerce at the expense of hammers. And when your workers run out of important things to do, it's that or useless roads. If you reach Biology, it might end up paying off.

sometimes my workers truly have nothing to do. every square in every cross looks the way i want it to pre-biology. i don't want to get rid of them all (maybe some if i had a ton from captures), since i know i'll want them once i hit bio, and if/when i go to war later. so instead, if i have the patience to MM them, i'll sometimes improve tiles outside of my city's crosses but inside my territory. sounds crazy, and yes i am crazy, but here's my logic ... any enemy invading my territory has to go through those tiles before they get to my inner core of cities. sometimes they get distracted ("oooooh shiny, must destroy!") and pillage, that's a good thing for me. yeah they get some money (not a ton, none are towns after all) but i get time to move troops around/get more prepared. in OCC i definitely do it. caveat: particularly in OCC, i leave squares near forests alone to give them a chance to spread.

 

[LucyDuke]

any enemy invading my territory has to go through those tiles before they get to my inner core of cities. sometimes they get distracted ("oooooh shiny, must destroy!") and pillage, that's a good thing for me.

This is an excellent point that I hadn't thought of. My bored workers improve the tiles in the borderland wilderness in my anticipation of taking neighbors' border cities or founding new cities, but I hadn't even realized that the dumb AI would waste its time pillaging tiles I'm not using. Of course, they'll knock out resources, but that's bound to happen either way. It's a roadblock of sorts, I guess, eh? I can't believe how much I learn on these forums.

 

[KMadCandy]

It's a roadblock of sorts, I guess, eh? I can't believe how much I learn on these forums.

it's not a guaranteed roadblock, but if your guys literally have nothing else to do, and you want to keep them around since later they will definitely have things to do, it works often enough that it's worth a shot. the first thing i do is mine hills, on the theory that they may be hiding aluminum. ps i'm not that smart, i learned it on these forums too

 

[NKVD]

Always avoid settling on resources (especially high-yield ones like gold). And always avoid settling where you'll have unworkable water in your bfc (you can't build a lighthouse).

Just 2, a little late.

yep i just discovered it in my game...I settled one square away from the sea because I wanted to get two ressources at the same time. bad move i'm stuck at 8 of population for the entire game!

 

[50_dollar_bag]

I'm not so hot on the Capital having dead tiles, map generator is usually pretty good in that department, but I've built many a city in locations with only a few workable tiles. My most recent one was a city i built with half coastal tiles, a desert/hill/gold, 2 desert hils, 2 grassland hills, 1 rice and 2 grassland with first expansion. It stayed as a size on gold colony for about 80 turns before i could get a religion there to expand the borders(i left mysticism til very late as my other cities didn't need expansions) That city saved me from strike until i nabbed Napoleans very juicy capital with The great Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, Parthenon and something else. my science slider went from 10% to 50% in one turn.

Later on I got that city up to about size 8-9 post biology and couldn't believe my luck when it popped 2 coppers and a coal when steam power came around, and was cranking out 4 turn Panzers with the HE on Marathon speed.

 

[Mercenary82]

Another thing that can be done with excess workers is to use them as the diversions themselves. I use them to lure away AI pillagers before they have a chance to pillage anything.

 

[Chigau Jiji]

Never settle one step away from the coast is a good rule to follow,
and both 1N are 1S are good
Other things to consider when you decide
is that settling on a coast means that with Sailing
you are connected tradewise with any other cities on the coast,
yours and other civs,
which means early trade without building any roads.
Very handy, even if it's just a few coins.
Also, in mid to late game, all coastal cities seem to have far more lucrative trade routes than inland ones, sometimes double the value.
Very important for your capital if it has all the buildings that magnify that.
Also, you can build two more wonders.

 

[Zherak_Khan]

I think settling on gold is not as bad as some people claim it to be. Has anyone ever done the maths here?

Settling on plains hills gold, working mined riverside grassland hill:
3F 5H 3C

Settling on riverside grassland hill working plains hills gold:
2F 4H 7C (or would it be 8C?)

So we are trading 4 (5?) commerce for 1F and 1H. Sounds like at least a decent deal to me, really.

(I wouldn't mind if somebody double checked those calculations.)

 

[KMadCandy]

I think settling on gold is not as bad as some people claim it to be. Has anyone ever done the maths here?
...
So we are trading 4 (5?) commerce for 1F and 1H. Sounds like at least a decent deal to me, really.

oh it's a very bad deal. i just did the math in worldbuilder (note: i was not a financial civ).

if you settle on a plains hill gold, it is identical to a normal plains hill as far as what your city square gets (2f/2h/1c). the only bonus you get is the benefit of having the luxury. if the plains gold hill is on a river, you get 2c instead of a city's usual one commerce.

so, your examples end up being (for non-financial civs):
city on plains hills gold (non-river), working mined riverside grass hill = 3f 5h 2c
city on river grass hill, working plains hill gold = 2f 4h 8c + 2 health
city on desert/tundra/whatever junk, working mined riverside grass hill, saving the plains hill gold for later = 3f 4h 2c

i love settling on plains stone/marble, flatland or hills, but i don't like to settle on commerce hills.

 

[DaviddesJ]

So we are trading 4 (5?) commerce for 1F and 1H. Sounds like at least a decent deal to me, really.

There's no grassland hill in sight.

Settling on the river plains hill and working the river gold plains hill gives 2F 2H 1C + 0F 3H 8C = 2F 5H 9C. Settling on the river gold plains hill and working the river plains hill gives 2F 2H 2C + 0F 4H 1C = 2F 6H 3C. So you're trading 1H for 6C, by settling on the gold.

 

[KMadCandy]

oh i didn't read zherak's example as referring to the case in screenshot in the thread. there we could definitely have plenty of food to feed our miner/commerce-collector. i thought he was talking in general, and so i answered about it in the general case.

 

[OscarWildebeest]

it's not a guaranteed roadblock, but if your guys literally have nothing else to do, and you want to keep them around since later they will definitely have things to do, it works often enough that it's worth a shot. the first thing i do is mine hills, on the theory that they may be hiding aluminum. ps i'm not that smart, i learned it on these forums too

I've been trying the same tactic myself, lately (I also read it somewhere on here) and it's been extremely helpful in my latest game, delaying invaders long enough for me to bolster my defences and get a counter-attack stack in. Result: vulnerable capital left untouched!

 

[ungy]

Always avoid settling on resources (especially high-yield ones like gold).

Actually if you settle on a river calender lux resources can be good to settle, especially if you're fin. You get +1$ (+2 fin) and the tile you kill is only average and plays late. The early commerce is much better.