SG: Queen Teuta

[SrWilliam]

"They now stand outside the Scythians westernmost city (with its deer and silver!)"

That city should have fur as well; it's a keeper in my opinion. Let the happiness roll on in!

Fur, Silver, Gold and Wine will help the cause nicely!

 

[Hypnotoad]

Oh, and I have to say that I found our population rather depleted. This seemed like a vicious circle -- it takes a long time to build things now because we have fewer people, which perhaps encourages further whiping. Remember that population takes a while to build up... I tried to spend my 15 turns building up the population a bit. Perhaps we should try to be a little lighter with the whip, only using it for ordinary builds when the population is at the happy cap?

I did do one whiping -- a smithy in Rome so we have one in Italy now. I forgot to bring our southern Kambsors through Rome though... Oops.

Also: we will have tin in 2 turns. It's re-armament time.

 

[Jet]

@Hypnotoad: Agreed, we have a high happy cap and could benefit from large cities. Key buildings, race wonders, emergency troops, but after that maybe not so much. Also nice job on the resource trades, I'm bad at that and it's good to learn that it's a way to get open border agreements in TAM.

And certainly agree that we should keep fur/silver!

 

[Shqype]

I'm up next guys, and I prefer to have high pop as well. I never use slavery to be honest, so I'll probably be changing that civic to something else instead.

It seems I have quite a few things to do, so it should be fun to play out my turn I won't be able to post until tonight because I'm at school, though. Just letting you guys know.

 

[Hypnotoad]

I would say just don't use slavery. Well the option is to switch to the unlimited artists/merchants/scientist civic. I don't know if that would really get put to use and it is a medium upkeep civic rather than a no upkeep civic. But perhaps I am overlooking its usefulness. With that civic and city states we could have a merchant in every city. Beware of happy cap if you switch to city states. We may want to wait till we get that silver and fur.

 

[SrWilliam]

No whipping is fine with me, I mostly use it when a city is unhappy, we should not have that problem for a while now.

Dacian culture may take our silver.

 

[Dux_]

Then maybe we should destroy the dacian civilization?

 

[Jet]

Slavery is especially useful in small cities (eg, if we raze some and settle one in a more optimal location) because they benefit from getting key buildings (like granary, tavern) quick.

Slavery can also be useful in captured cities - if they're unhappy because they're foreign, you can whip away the unhappy citizens and get a building/unit or two.

And also for emergency defense units.

I'm not necessarily arguing that we should keep Slavery, I just want to state some benefits it buut have for us. Like HT said Patronage could be useful with City States, as an alternative. However I do still want to encourage us to build Caravan Houses because they're awesome and also allow a merchant per city even without Patronage.

 

[Jet]

I think he question is how far to push into Scythia before taking on Dacia. Eventually I think we should occupy its capital and probably the penninsula but for now if desired we could either ignore it or pillage/raze it and take a rebuilt version later.

EDIT: I think that ^^^ was unclear... what I meant was, EVENTUALLY we should occupy its capital and probably the penninsula. But what to do now, that's the question.

 

[Hypnotoad]

My instinct is to leave Dacia alone and try to take out Scythia -- reduce the number of wars we have. The two reasons I can see to go for Dacia:

It is closer.
They don't have Copperworking yet (is this true?).

 

[Shqype]

Turn 1:
Reduced research rate to 50% (+23 gold per turn)
Attacked Scythian city of Sarmatia with Kambsor; destroyed spearman with full health
Attacked Sarmatia with Pirro i Epirit; destroyed Archer, hooked up with Combat 3

Turn 2:
Researched Geometry; went on to pursue horseback riding (+1 road movement will be useful to more quickly move troops throughout our empire)
2 Great Engineers born in Shkodra!
Kambsor built in Kummukhu, Caravan House started
Hooked up Tin with roads

Turn 3:
Destroyed boatload of Scythian raiders landed near Kummukhu
Kambsor destroyed Armored Javelineer in Sarmatia
Second Kambsor destroyed an archer, captured Sarmatia, and a worker; hooked up with City Raider 2
Research razed up to 60% (+3 gold per turn)
Connected gold to Hyskos and Lissus double production of speed of Riches of Kroisos; done in 5 turns

Turn 4:
Rome built something, Caravan House started
Hooked up elite Kambsor with Combat 2 after defending against a Scythian Armored Spearman
Great Engineer used to rush Genius of Archimedes in Dyrrahu!

Turn 5:
Dyrrahu completes Genius of Archimedes, begins on Barracks
Research rate raised to 70% (-16 gold per turn); Horseback Riding in 2 turns
Landed a Kambsor and an Axeman in the woods near the Scythian capital Kul-Oba; detachment from Sarmatia enroute as well

Turn 6:
Library constructed in Shkodra, Granary next
Harbor constructed in Cumae, Caravan House next

Turn 7:
Horseback Riding researched; going for Burial Grounds and then Priesthood so we can discover "Olympian Gods" as Illyria's religion
Lissus completed Riches of Kroisos, started on Caravan House
Sarmatia to build a Holy Site (for culture and happiness)

Turn 8:
Aetes asked me to declare war against Babylon; I did to keep good relations
Shkodra built Granary; Heroic Epic started
Albanopoli finished Caravan House, began Grocer
Barracks built in Antium, Lighthouse started
Have a nice stack of attackers led by Pirro i Epirit outside of Kul-Oba
Lembi destroyed Scythian Bireme
Scythians dropped a couple of Axemen outside Kummukhu; had them destroyed

Turn 9:
Harbor constructed in Valona; Lighthouse next

Turn 10:
Viratio offered a Peace Treaty for 160 gold; I took it since we weren't doing anything anyway
Dido asked for war against Tartessia; I took it, but cancelled the free copper we were giving her
I continue to hack away at the defenses of Kul-Oba; now down to 16% fortifications

Turn 11:
Germanic Empire asked me to turn back on Dacians; I said no.
I attacked Kul-Oba with a Kambsor and destroyed an Armored Spearman; defenses down to 11%

Turn 12:
Dyrrahu built a Barracks, so I continued with a Chariot Archer
Another Kambsor destroyed an Armored Spearman in Kul-Oba; defenses down to 5%

Turn 13:
Decebal asked for Bronze Working, I wouldn't give it to him; he's pretty mad...
Burial Grounds researched! Priesthood is next, 1 turn to go
Rome constructed Caravan House, Harbor next
Antium constructed Lighthouse, Library next
Valona constructed Lighthouse, Burial Mound next

Turn 14:
Priesthood researched, Olympian Gods founded in Lissus, Advanced Bow next
Lissus completed Caravan House, Grocer next
Holy Site completed in Sarmatia, Obelisk next
Lembi sunk a Scythian transport galley with 2 archers and a settler; haha

Turn 15:
Government restored, Olympian Gods adopted, Composite Bow researched in 3 turns
Kul-Oba captured!

State of the Illyrian Union



Economically speaking, the Illyrian Empire is doing quite well. It has a few wonders at its disposal, along with a Great Engineer tucked away at Shkodra for a rainy day. With a 70% research rate, the Illyrians are only losing 9 gold per turn from their 401 gold treasury; but they are technologically advancing. The Scythians have but 2 cities left and can soon be wiped out. Perhaps it would be better to sign a peace treaty and temporarily stave off their destruction to better prepare against the growing Dacian threat. Not only is Decebal angry towards Illyria, but he has stacks of Peltasts amassed in Dacian border cities; Dyrrahu, Skodra, and Sarmatia are all at risk, in that order.

It would be wise to concentrate on military defense at this point in time, focusing Illyrian efforts on units capable of causing collateral damage with a bonus against the Dacian Peltasts. Composite Archers would be ideal for going against Dacian Peltast stacks because they cause collateral damage and have a 75% attack bonus vs. skirmisher units. Until then, Chariots and Kambsors will have to do.

The Babylonians are furious with us and refuse to accept peace. Thankfully they are far away and pose no threat to us as of yet. We are also at war with the Tartessians, but they once again do not pose a threat.

Shkodra builds the Heroic Epic next turn and will be able to quickly produce experienced military units. I recommend using the Illyrian capital's resources to prepare for the Dacian war.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Nice turn. Good to have our own religion. How easy would it be to finish taking out Scythia? I think it would be nice to be done with them. There is still a lot of ancient Mediterranean to conquer. (I think if we keep the city on the peninsula and burn the inland one we would be less likely to have to deal with settelrs.)

I've never really used archers much before, but it does sound like they should be useful here. Should be interesting.

 

[SrWilliam]

Very little happened in my turns

For research, I finished Composite bow, researched Construction for +50 work rate and started Epics.

I built a few chariot archers, a few kambsor and a few composite archers. I love chariot archers they are so hard to kill.

I fortified the Dacian boarder by walling our cities and building up the army. Builds in other cities emphasized money and happiness. I walled in a few boarder cities.

The Scythians are no more. I captured the Peninsula city and plundered the last on my 15th turn.

Against the odds, Lissus built a great artist. I figured it was destiny and used it up in Sarmatia. (the silver/fur city) With +4000 culture we now have our silver!

I could not decide how to use our great engineer so I didn’t. Albanopoli has started the Aristotelian Theatre perhaps the city could specialize in building great artists. I am not very good at making great people factories.

With a little redeployment we could start a Dacian war. The Scythian wing of our army could sneak through the secret Carpathian mountain pass if we want to start the war sooner.

Only one nation talked to me. Egypt demanded alphabet, I did not want to piss her off so I gave it to her.

One final look at my save I noticed that we should send some workers to Skodra to upgrade a few squares. Hyksos could also use a few workers. Cumae is building a workboat for the Valona crabs.

The game should be a cakewalk the rest of the way. I guess we should have played at a higher difficulty level.

 

[Jet]

Olympian Gods founded in Lissus


The Scythians are no more. I captured the Peninsula city and plundered the last on my 15th turn.


The game should be a cakewalk the rest of the way. I guess we should have played at a higher difficulty level.
Agreed! I'm not sure what to make of that. Is TAM "too easy"? (Maybe deserves its own thread...)

Albanopoli has started the Aristotelian Theatre perhaps the city could specialize in building great artists.
Well.....the way great people points work, if you have multiple cities producing great people they have to be fairly even in terms of GPP/turn, otherwise the ones that lag behind will never catch up. Even with the Aristotlean, Albanopoli would have to run a lot of artist specialists to keep up with Lissus. Even Skodra will have trouble keeping up with Lissus's GPPs without National Epic... Hmm... I'm not sure we can really afford the following (need military, etc etc) but if we could, this might make sense:
* Skodra - Temple of Artemis (2 priests = 4 hammers for units with Heroic Epic, and 8 GPP to keep up with Lissus, even though it pollutes the engineer pool)
* Albanopoli - Mausoleum (helpful for a domination/conquest strategy?)
* Lissus - Aristotlean

I could not decide how to use our great engineer so I didn’t.
Whatever we do, it might be nice to save one engineer for Plato's Academy; ideally that will go in a high-commerce site which therefore would have to be low-production.

 

[Drtad]

About TAM being too easy... It might have something to do with the fact that Vanilla civ has a huge bug in the combat system that makes the AI fight poorly. Discovered by TGA and then Firaxis. Firaxis has fixed this for Warlords. Sorry to interrupt your succession game. Good job by the way.

 

[Hypnotoad]

I find TAM much harder than Vanilla Civ or the old version of Fall From Heaven II (.15). The new version though, with the combat fix TGA pointed out, seems substantially harder. I wonder how hard this is to put in to the non-Warlords version of TAM.

Hey Drtad -- you could still take the 5th slot if you wanted (at least, it is fine by me. I can't see why others would mind).

I think the real challenge for the rest of the game will be to keep the maintance costs under control.

-- HT

 

[schlappi]

If DrTad doesn't take it, i'd gladly join for spot #5...

Just read the whole thread, Illyria seems to be prospering under your dic... err, rule!

 

[Dux_]

Turn 1. Did some changes on builds. Stop building walls where it wasnt necessary. Rome switches to lighthouse, so does Albanopoli. I'm gonna put emphasis on growth, we want to have more pop, I also might start the Dacian war, but Gaul might also be a concern, & a personal priority. Sarmatia switches to carpenter.

Turn 2. I'm planning to settle on Sardinia, should be a productive city. Lyssus switches to Temple of Artemis. Cumae finishes work boat, starts on Barracks.

Turn 3. Finishes Epics, starts on Architecture, we want another free engineer. Also, I had to gift Alphabet to Kolchis, didn't want to waste all the good relations the others nurtured before me.

Turn 4. Rome finishes lighthouse, starts on settler. Valone switches to Carpenter. Moving troops towards the Dacian border. Since we're getting a free engineer, I used ours to build Hadrian's Wall on Skodra, so we get more 2 more GPP per turn.

Turn 5. Hadrian's Wall finished, Skodra returns to National Epic. Cumae finishes barracks, starts on Axemen.

Turn 6. Samatia finishes walls after finishing Carpenter. Starts on Caravan House. Traded Alphabet with Dido for 390 gold & her conversion to our religion. She should be friendly soon, & we'll be able to trade ivory.

Turn 7. Kummiku finishes worker, starts on another worker. We just lost our recently hooked crabs to Carthage's culture, so I hire an artist on Valona. Tavern is finished on Saka.

Turn 8. Rome finishes Settler.

Turn 9. We are about to settle Sardinia, Rome finishes work boat.

Turn 10. We found Damastion on Sardinia, a great engineer is born. I leave that as reserve for any future wonde building plans. We recover crabs on Sicily. Researching Furnace, & after that we should go for Philosophy so we can get Iron working as our free tech.

Turn 11. Hyksos finishes Caravan house, starts on Carpenter. We will declare war on Dacians on our next turn, so we can capture his two workers.

Turn12. We declare on Dacians & capture their two workers, We move towards Perica while just having a defensive stance on Dyrrahu.

Turn13. Dacians land near Rome, we push them back, but that pesky 2 starred Dacian is still bugging us.

Turn 14. We kill that pesky Dacian near Rome at the cost of an Axemen, Italy is secure, we should capture Perica on the next turn.

Turn 15. Lyssus finishes the Temple of Artemis. We capture Perica without losses, Decebalus is landlocked. A great engineer was born on Skodra, so we now have 2 Great Engineers waiting to be used.

Some notes, I took the liberty to build some watermills all around the empire, especially on Kummiku, which is now a decent city. We should reforce our Scythian lands, they're pretty defenseless now. I suggest we use one of our great engineers to build on Albanopoli or Lyssus the Statue of Zeus.

Jet, you're up.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Nice turn. It is always nice having a surplus of great engineers.

I'm glad you guys have given people alphabet, etc. It is a subtle line, but I think it is worthwhile to keep our friends.

 

[Jet]

@Drtad, don't worry about interrupting, if anyone outside the game wants to comment, that's great. Since HT asked, would you like to join the game? Otherwise let's assign the open slot to schlappi.

@Turnset

I started by whipping several builds on the first turn so that by the end of my turnset the whip unhappiness would be gone and I wouldn't get yelled at for overwhipping. I wondered why we were building a carpenter in Saka before it had a granary, and when it was pulling TWO hammers? I guess it does give a bit of a bonus when you whip... which I did! Whipped a granary for 2 pop for yet more whipping satisfaction in the future. Sent its clams a work boat from Kummukhu.

Everything that was building at the start, I did eventually complete. I built granaries in the new cities and gave every other city a caravan house ASAP, then in some cities barracks. Started the Statue of Zeus in Lissus and left our great engineers (currently 2) alone. Workers generally emphasized cottages; I was especially happy to get some cottages going in Kummukhu. I did watermill over the cottage in Skodra, figuring that with Heroic Epic it should max food and hammers.

I also drafted and whipped the crap out of Sarmatia (silver city) to protect it from a small Dacian raiding party from across the Carapathians. They were dispatched handily and I moved to occupy and fortify the pass myself.

I moved most units from Italy to the mainland to attack Dacia, but then built more garrison troops in Rome.

Traded sheep to Vercengetorix for 4 GPT. A couple turns later Kroisos offered OB, which I accepted, and I also offered wine for 2 GPT - a bad deal, but since he's in our backyard I just didn't want to deal with him until we're ready. I set Cumae to loop building merchant ships and set its rally point to Carthage, so that every few turns we just click and rake in the bucks. It's not the best we could do (we could be doing merchant missions at a faster rate), but it is easy to maintain. Definitely someone please do better if you want to set it up.

We finished Architecture. I started the Statue of Zeus in Lissus, and Philosophy.

We finished the Aristotlean theater in Albanopoli.

I took Breaza, losing a couple of elite Kambsors en route from Italy. Archers were very helpful for collateral damage + withdrawal. I realized that Chariot Archers don't have a city attack penalty, only a city defense penalty, which is pretty badass (probably unbalanced!) I left some units behind but promptly moved through the woods to the Dacian capital.

Hammurabi offered peace for 30 gold. He wasn't fighting whoever asked us to fight him (Aeetes?) any more, so I accepted.

A great merchant was born in Lissus. I could either settle him in Skodra (for higher food, and therefore higher hammers) or lightbulb Code of Laws, saving 8 turns of research. Seeing that our outlying cities were costing 10-12 GPT in maintenance, I lightbulbed CoL.

We finished Philosophy, and Zoaroasterism was founded in Antium. I usually prefer to slingshot to Education (8 turns), but Dux worked hard to set us up for Iron Working (6 turns), opening up Swordsmen and the Iron Weapons promotion, so I took it, then started Siege Warfare. Suggested priorities:
* At some point we should do Astrology (3 turns) for Path of the Mystics. I really should have done it myself, sorry.
* Siege Warfare (6 turns left)
* Alchemy (8 turns) (Great Scientist + Fire Catapults)
* Literature (7 turns) (Great Library)
* Education (11 turns) (Plato's Academy)

I razed the Dacian capital. It's just wasn't a primo location. But I built a settler (he's on his way to the eastern pass in the Carapathians now). I suggest settling 1S of the old Dacian capital - it could work deer/iron/copper/timber plus eventually I think 16 cottages.

I built a couple Public Courts and started some more on the very last turn, so some cities have units halfway completed and zero hammers into their Public Court. That's just a serving suggestion, obviously. But if we let the courts build, the cities can always swap back and finish the units quick if there's an emergency. And I think we have enough units now to finish off Dacia probably in the next turnset.

Also, Skodra is building Swordsmen at a rate of one per turn

The West:

The East:

The North: