SGOTM 01 - Memphis Blues

Drogear · May 23, 2006

About sailing.

Do we really need that tech? My experience is that on monarchy diff the AI tents to find me rather than the other way around. And I’m not sure we need to get units to other island at all.

Don’t know the offshore strategy here but If we have no plans of expanding abroad early we might as well wait for the AI to find us (this will happen sooner than later).

So this makes the sailing tech a waist and the research turns could be better spent. In my book the lighthouse improvement seems to be the only valid argument to get sailing. But do we got enough costal cities to validate the tech turns lost to gain sailing now rather than waiting for alpabeth?

The tech sailing is very easy to gain after we get alphabet.

EDIT Ok noone cares to debate that subject. Its hard to paticipate in the discussion if noone comments on the treads (not only bashing the outcome of the game)

Well if you wanted to discusse I could ad that contact with other AI isnt really gainfull without alpabeth (free sailing) and currency for gold trade

Drogear · May 23, 2006

"Finally we could build the Colossus and get 1 extra gold from all worked water tiles. In the long run I think this is more than what we get from the Great Library since most of our cities are coastal (allthough GL is better in the short term)."

Why not go for both the colossus and the great library? Since the colossus is suited for Memphis and GL in Thebes they could be simultaneously build (proven we get the techs). One doesn’t need to out rule the other. Optimal would be if thebes got a seaport and could get both wonders.

radiopill · May 23, 2006

Here is my turnset... I'm not to proud of it...

Spoiler :

I realize that I didn't do 20 turns, but it's not really important.

So I manage to take Yaroslav with only 1 losses (I keep it), and Novgorod with 2 losses (I burn it, 1 worker capture).
After that I ask for a cease fire.

Then I rushed some production, like granary in St Peter', and Memphis, and the settler in Thebes.
Heliopolis has been founded on the blue spot (fish and clam). I have done 3 more workboat for exploring and fishing. Fish of memphis hooked, and clam of Helios also hooked. The 2 others wb are in the far south for exploring. Just one word about the east of the mountain... there's nothing...

For the tech, IW finished (we have Iron next to St peter, already hooked). Start on sailing (due in 2 turns, sorry Drogear I read your message to late).

After 10 turns of peace, I go again to war with cathy...

but it wasn't the cleverest idea ever... :cry:

Sorry about that guys... I still manage to unhooked the copper. I wasn't sure about changing for police state, so it's up to the next player.
Here is our situation near moscow:

And some more screenshot:

Frederiksberg · May 23, 2006

Could you add a little more info about the battles fought. Not for criticizing but to better understand what happened and maybe learn from it

.

At least we still control the copper so eventually we will prevail.

Drogear · May 23, 2006

Earlier critic of not particiting In the discussion falls kind of short proven the lack of respons now precented for the arguments made.

Drogear · May 23, 2006

BTW The more I look at the position of Moscow I cant understand that the poor placement the russian AI made. (just an old AI ramble)

Mad Professor · May 23, 2006

Frederiksberg said:
Could you add a little more info about the battles fought. Not for criticizing but to better understand what happened and maybe learn from it .

At least we still control the copper so eventually we will prevail.

If you click on the "show" button in radiopill's post #243, you get the entire battle logs

Mad Professor · May 23, 2006

radiopill said:
Here is my turnset... I'm not to proud of it...

Sorry about that guys... I still manage to unhooked the copper. I wasn't sure about changing for police state, so it's up to the next player.

Failing to take Moscoz and losing Yaroslavl is certainly very frustrating, but your turnset was not all bad.

There are some positives too.

I'm going from screenshots since I haven't downloaded the game to look at it since radiopill's turns yet, but can we still take them? If war weariness is not bothering us...?

Mad Professor · May 23, 2006

Drogear said:
About sailing.

Do we really need that tech? My experience is that on monarchy diff the AI tents to find me rather than the other way around. And Im not sure we need to get units to other island at all.

A fair point, but on the other hand, I wonder how we want to win the game? If we're going for a cultural victory, we don't care about meeting other people soon as long as we get some religion into our empire REAL soon. Already cultural victory is looking a long way off. Diplomatic victory is real hard to predict at this stage since the only civ we've met we've attacked, and we're permanently at war with one other. Space Race is turned off. That leaves domination and conquest. (Did I forget any? - oh - time. Worth forgetting)

I've played a couple of games where I've been "marooned" on a continent with no other civs (At least once I killed off the one that WAS there

) and the result was that winning the game came rather much later than I wanted it to. I suppose it depends how long you stay marooned, doesn't it?

Drogear said:
Dont know the offshore strategy here but If we have no plans of expanding abroad early we might as well wait for the AI to find us (this will happen sooner than later).

Well we HAVE to have plans about expanding abroad eventually if we want to win the game, it's a question of how soon. You say "early" but I wonder how soon "early" is see my next comment below.

Drogear said:
The tech sailing is very easy to gain after we get alphabet.

True, but again it's a question of timing. How long can we wait for it? How far away are the civs that will come? Will they need caravels and therefore optics before they can come? They will if gaps between isalnds is big enough, and I don't put anything past the deviousness of the map designer! There may be other islands within reach of galleys but they may not have any civs on them.

Drogear said:
EDIT Ok noone cares to debate that subject. Its hard to paticipate in the discussion if noone comments on the treads (not only bashing the outcome of the game)

My friend, I for one was asleep for the entire time between you posting this and editing it to make this comment.

Mad Professor · May 23, 2006

Ah - Iron next to St. Petersberg. That WAS a key city wasn't it? Placed right there withthe copper deliberately, no doubt.

BSouder · May 24, 2006

After looking around, I think we need to give up on Moscow for now. It's up to 40% culture defense, on a hill and defended by a City Garrison II archer. Our troops on site would have to get very lucky to take it, but then would never be able to hold it from the axe and archer just to the north. I am actually concerned that that axe and archer are headed to St. Petersburg to try to retake it (which they might be able to do).

My suggestion would be to send the 2 city raider I axes and the WC at Moscow down to retake the southern copper city and pull the unpromoted axe at Moscow back to St. Petersburg. If Catherine's little mini stack is indeed headed to St. Petersburg it will beat our axe there, so we might have to whip a defender. Thebes has nothing it can currently build except military or settlers. I would therefore build 1 axe per costal city in Thebes (we know Catherine sent a galley somewhere, so it could come back with troops). We might also consider settling our last flood plain city NE of Thebes.

From there I would concentrate on building up infrastructure and troops until we are ready for Moscow. I would consider us ready for Moscow when we have a stack of 6+ swords and a couple of axes staged in St. Petersburg, or 3-4 swords and a few catapults.

For a tech path, I have no strong opinions. We have a lot of techs right now that have merit.

Drogear · May 24, 2006

Mad Prof: Thanks for the comments. I know that done is done but like the insight of the tactics behind sailing tech. Oh and sory for the sarcastic edited comment, just wanted to provoke a answer

since I think I had a very strong argument against the sailing tech.

Drogear · May 24, 2006

Speaking of ways of victory, is there a strategy yet?

Syntherio · May 24, 2006

The war:
I would agree with BSouder: attacking Yaroslavl', while trying to defend St. Peter. Then we need another ceasefire...

Research:
I absolutly lost the current tech-situation. But i think there are two possibilities.
A. Going for Construction and Catapults, to finish Cathy.
B. Going for Sailing, Optics (afaik) and Galleys, Caravels, to find other civs.
I think we should finish Cathy as soon as possible. So we need Peace and Cats, as our current troops are insufficient.

Winning Strategy:
This contest is about Domination or Diplomatic victories - I don´t think we should aim at other variants.

Wonders:
We get only one Great Engineer and I don´t think that we should build another wonder in the normal way. There are other things to do.

Drogear · May 24, 2006

Syntherio: We already got Sailing for some reason, read my post at the top of p13 and you see why Im against that tech. Yes Construction would had been a good option against russia in the second war. Guess we have to go for a 3th war with proper backing this time. Sword/Cat and some axemen/Archer for stack-defens.

Syntherio · May 24, 2006

btw: I will play my turnset not before tomorrow evening

radiopill · May 24, 2006

For the victory strategy, there're only two options: domination or diplomatic... I think that diplomatic will take too much time... so let's go the hard way :hammer:

For the defeat at moscow, I made an attack with 6 WC, and 1 axe... against 4 archers and 1 axe... but the 40% of cultural defense wasd too much too have a chance. When my WC withdraw, the next turn the axe finished them...

The Problem we have now is the axe/archer stack which goes for St Peter... execpt this problem taking back yaroslav would'nt be too difficult atm.

For the exploration there's already 2 workboat near the island at the SW of our continent.

For the tech strat, I think that MC (approximatively 25 turn) after sailing (due in 2) would be a good idea... with the lighthouse and the colossus, we could work a lot of good tiles in town like Memphis, where we can't make too much cottage, or St peter, or the other ex-russian town south of thebes... after that math/construction or currency...

Frederiksberg · May 24, 2006

Mad Professor said:
If you click on the "show" button in radiopill's post #243, you get the entire battle logs

Thanks. Overlooked that one.

Drogear · May 24, 2006

radiopill said:
For the victory strategy, there're only two options: domination or diplomatic... I think that diplomatic will take too much time... so let's go the hard way

For the defeat at moscow, I made an attack with 6 WC, and 1 axe... against 4 archers and 1 axe... but the 40% of cultural defense wasd too much too have a chance. When my WC withdraw, the next turn the axe finished them...

The Problem we have now is the axe/archer stack which goes for St Peter... execpt this problem taking back yaroslav would'nt be too difficult atm.

For the exploration there's already 2 workboat near the island at the SW of our continent.

For the tech strat, I think that MC (approximatively 25 turn) after sailing (due in 2) would be a good idea... with the lighthouse and the colossus, we could work a lot of good tiles in town like Memphis, where we can't make too much cottage, or St peter, or the other ex-russian town south of thebes... after that math/construction or currency...

MC at 25 turns seems ok, btw does anyone mircomanage the towns? Im sure we can squize out some scieance with some "creative" cityt managin.

Dont care for spellcheck now, going to hurry the hell out of the office and get home, the weekend starts today... thank god for christianity +labor unions

Syntherio · May 24, 2006

Drogear said:
Dont care for spellcheck now, going to hurry the hell out of the office and get home, the weekend starts today... thank god for christianity +labor unions

Ha, I totally forgot that... tomorrow is father´s day :beer:

Then I must finish the game today evening. I´m not sure if I can manage that...

Okay, just to summarize:
We will go for MC, to build Collossus with the GE. Then towards Construction.
Must take back Yaroslavl and defend St. Peter. Not that difficult I hope.

SGOTM 01 - Memphis Blues

Prince

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Tyrant

Deity

Prince

Prince

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Warlord

Prince

Prince

Prince

Prince

Prince

Tyrant

Deity

Prince

Prince

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