SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

greatbeyond · Oct 25, 2008

Comments

Agreed Army is big enough right now.

I'm not sure what happened to the GG. One more turn would have left it on the coast of Marbles, GG boards that turn and gets off on the adjacent mainland then Caravel continues on. Compared to my mistake with the Worker getting captured, this is minor.

We won't need a 2nd Caravel yet. It probably would have worked better going south but it was a judgment call. Let's not spend too much time berating ourselves.

Agreed on GEs, there was comment before my turnset where someone thought GMs were good. I want Engineers or Scientists. I did change them in my turn to one or the other.

Agree about Marbles, whip lighthouse perhaps even Forge, I don't know w/o checking how many turns this would take.

Agree that getting Pericles map is probably worthwhile

In my mind the biggest determinate in deciding if we go with Courthouses first, is how much is city maintenance costing us. If not much, then they can wait.

Let the worker finish the mine and then he can go on Cottage duty.

Mesix · Oct 25, 2008

We need at least 2 GM for Sid Sushi and Cereal Mills.
We need at least 2 GS for Aluminum Inc and Standard Ethanol
We need at least 2 GE for Mining Inc and Creative Constructions
We need only one GA for Civilized Jewelers

Each of the Corporate HQ counts as a wonder. Getting all seven is a requirement based on the VC for this game.

It doesn't really matter what order they arrive in. The two corporations that we plan to spread the most should be put in Parma with the Shrine to maximize gold per turn. We should build a Market, Grocier, and Bank in Parma as the techs become available and add Wall Street once we research Corporation.

I vote for Sid Sushi and Mining Inc to be the two corporations that we spread to all of our important cities.

Mesix · Oct 25, 2008

BLubmuz said:
And where do i find a 2MP unit? We need the healer NOW, not somewhere in the future.

I know that hind sight is 20/20, but we have a 2MP unit now. There is a scout camped out on the unsettled part of the stone island near Marbles. The GG could have been put on him and sailed back to the mainland. Scouts make the best supermedics because they never defend a stack. Later he can be upgraded to an Explorer super medic who also ignores terrain movement.

For our current situation, the spearman works fine though. He can camp out in Shaka's former capitol and heal our units before they fan out to mop up the 3 remaining cities.

Mesix · Oct 25, 2008

Courthouses are more pressing than forges for our outlying cities. If we cut maintenance in 1/2 we should be able to up our research by quite a bit.

Sweetacshon · Oct 26, 2008

Right - let's get back on (the economy) track. I agree with the points made re: civics, size of army, working sea tiles, cottaging, trading for calendar and map, and... did I miss anything? If Pericles' map is not adequate, don't be afraid of getting another caravel out. In addition to exploring they will be useful for pillaging in war and defence. We'll also need a galley for ferry duty.

Just a question. We do intend to raze that copper city, right?

Mesix · Oct 26, 2008

There are 8 players (7 AI) in this game.

There were 3 including us on our continent.

We must assume that we are in the small portion of the Big & Small map. We know that there is ice near Joao, so that is the southern pole. We don't have Calendar and we didn't build Stonehenge, so we don't know how large the map is or how far the northern pole is. There is a good chance that the Caraval is just slightly north of the Equator right now. There is also a good chance that Perecles' map will not be nearly enough for circumnavigation. If we want to prosecute a multicontinent war, we need to get the circumnavigation bonus.

We should not trade Optics.

We should also not trade our map away.

It might be a good idea to trade a low level tech for AI maps (only Perecles so far) and whatever else we can get.

WastinTime · Oct 26, 2008

Mesix said:
...we don't know how large the map is or how far the northern pole is. There is a good chance that the Caraval is just slightly north of the Equator right now. There is also a good chance that Perecles' map will not be nearly enough for circumnavigation.

We know all that. We know the map is standard size. We also know that the jungle is at the equator. Perc is on the Big landmass and has sailed around it. Trading with him will reveal everything and 99% likely to get circumnav bonus.

Raze copper city, yes.

berserks01 · Oct 26, 2008

Ok, playing now. Report in about an hour.

berserks01 · Oct 26, 2008

Ok. I just opened up the trade screen with Pericles to see what he would accept for what, but haven't played yet. I need a second opinion. We need to decide what we want to trade vs what he would give for what we're offering. Optics is out, so.

He'd accept the following:
1) Code of Law + Alpha for World Map + Calendar
2) Code of Law for World Map + Meditation + Monotheism
3) Machinery for World Map + Calendar + Mediation + Monotheism

I was tempted with 3, but will probably go with 1.

Mesix · Oct 26, 2008

I don't like 1. If you trade Alphabet to him he will start trading with other AI players.

2 or 3 would be fine. If we trade Machinery expect AI players to be sporting Crossbowmen once we get there (which isn't a bad thing if we have Rifelmen).

Mesix · Oct 26, 2008

Once you trade for his world map, you can make a more informed decision on whether or not to build another boat to sail the other way. If you do, I recommend having another city build a missionary to load up and spread to a religion friendly AI (Hatty, Ghandi, Justin, etc.) who will spread our religion for us and generate more $$$ from the shrine.

WastinTime · Oct 26, 2008

If you do get calendar, let's switch to astonomy instead of edu.

If you get Med, let's build a monastery in the capitol.

I also dislike #1 for Mesix's reason. #2 doesn't get us calendar, so I suppose #3.

berserks01 · Oct 26, 2008

3 it is. Will continue playing now.

berserks01 · Oct 26, 2008

Ok, first order of business. Took a tour of our cities MM around so our -5 is gone, switched Marbles to worker due in 4 turns, and changed/set some worker orders to cottage/chops.

Traded Pericles Machinery for Meditation+Monotheism+Calendar+World Map. World Map reveals Pericles on a big landmass with the following Civs: Rome, Holy Rome, India, and Celtia. We'll know who they are once we actually meet them.

Spoiler :

Revolted to HR+Slavery. I would've included Organized Religion, but it'll be 2 turns of revolt plus an additional 4gpt to our economy so I left it out.

Spoiler :

Switched to Astronomy and we did indeed proved that the world is round.

Spoiler :

Met Gandhi and Augustus Caesar.

Spoiler :

Traded Paper for Currency+World Map+50g with Gandhi. Everybody we've met got Paper already except him.

Spoiler :

Took Nobamba without loss.

Spoiler :

Found that Shaka has yet another city down south. This means that the fastest way to open up trade network with Joao is to take out Shaka's copper city.

Spoiler :

Gandhi came with a trade request, and was turned down. We don't want to trade Optics yet.

Spoiler :

Met Boudica.

Spoiler :

Augustus wants OB, I agreed.

Spoiler :

Boudica wants to trade World Map, I don't think so.

Spoiler :

kwaDurza only has 2 archers, so sent 3 maces down and raze it losing 1 mace. Captured a worker along the way as well.

Spoiler :

I stop here.

Shaka has 3 cities left including the copper city. Copper city is only defended by an axe and 2 archers. I'm pretty sure he has another city to the west of his copper city and his last city is south of his ex-horse city.

I pulled him up and see what he'd give for peace, and this is what he offered. Don't accept that. We have enough to completely wipe him out.

Spoiler :

Here's the current tech situation. If we want, we can trade Gandhi for Feudalism and vassalize Shaka, but that's only an option. The 2 workers I built at Marbles should be able to unload from the galley next turn.

Spoiler :

I've built harbors around for the +50% trade route yield and it improved our economy a bit, but it went down again after taking horse city. I suggest building courthouses at cities that are in our outter rims. We have some cottages up as well. Remember to build cottages along river tiles first since they already start with 2 gold.

Here's a look at the top 5 cities. Delhi looks like a keeper.

Spoiler :

THE SAVE

Sorry, but I didn't remember to turn on autolog until the the middle of my turnset, and then I couldn't find it after I finished the set. Can someone tell me where it is?

Here's the log from the uploaded save.

Spoiler :

BLubmuz · Oct 26, 2008

Well played, but i strongly disagree with the machinery trade: there was no reason to hurry for the circumnavigation, we can have traded some minor tech and be in the same situation.
Now Pricles has an almost monopoly tech, and soon he will trade it to other AIs.
That's why i traded only for construction and archery.

Gadhi is probably heading to Music, he always research this tech for the cathedrals.

I'll see the save, and try to figure a plan.

Let's build some cheap archer, to keep our population happy.

Wipe Shaka? we can let him with one city, trade for HBR, then finish him.

WastinTime · Oct 26, 2008

The AI can't have paper yet. Let me check....

Oh my, you have made a huge mistake. Gandhi isn't the only one without paper, he's the only one with the prereq for paper (Theo). The AI never gets paper and it really delays them on the way to Edu/Liberalism. No one even has CS and most don't have CoL.

Now he'll trade feudalism, but we can't give him any more tech.

WastinTime · Oct 26, 2008

Shaka will give us a free city for peace. which one? There also the vassal thing if we trade for feudal. Do we want him as a vassal?

EDIT: Let's take that city! If it's no good, we'll give it away.

berserks01 · Oct 26, 2008

WastinTime said:
The AI can't have paper yet. Let me check....

Oh my, you have made a huge mistake. Gandhi isn't the only one without paper, he's the only one with the prereq for paper (Theo). The AI never gets paper and it really delays them on the way to Edu/Liberalism. No one even has CS and most don't have CoL.

Now he'll trade feudalism, but we can't give him any more tech.

My bad. I should have checked more closely. I thought you can only trade World Map if you have Paper, but I completely forgot that they can trade World Map with us because we have Paper.

WastinTime · Oct 26, 2008

We should have left kwaDurza so the AI would chop all that jungle. Now Joao will just settle there and we have to conquer it again. The copper city was the way to go to get trade routes open. Let's just declare peace. We aren't keeping those cities anyway. Once we get Astronomy, we may want to keep them.

Yes, I vote peace.

Peace will be good for our happiness.
Our army is huge. We should be able to get Astron in 15 turns. Then stomp Joao.
Once we have Astron we can trade for many happiness resources.

EDIT: We can get Astron in 10 turns if we call for peace. Our harbors are doing nothing to trade income (175%), but trade income will explode if we start trading with Joao, then explode again when we get Astron.

WastinTime · Oct 26, 2008

Interesting. I see we don't have a single catapult. I thought that was everyone's favorite unit? I usually only have 4 of them.

SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

King

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

In the foetal position

Obergruppenführer

Deity

Obviously Very Confused

Obviously Very Confused

Obergruppenführer

Obergruppenführer

Deity

Obviously Very Confused

Obviously Very Confused

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

Deity

Obviously Very Confused

Deity

Deity

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