SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

[Sweetacshon]

Whoa. I had a busy few days, and this thread has exploded! The plan sounds good, but can't have an indepth look for another few hours. If you've played by then, c'est la vie.

Just a note on Mesix's last post: Can I bring up the dreaded V discussion again? If the war bogs down on Joao's lbs, what are people's thoughts on vassalising him?

Also, I feel that WT's 4 cats (assuming i read it correctly) are not enough to speed a war and minimise mace losses with medieval archers around. Better to sac a cheaper cat then lose a promoted mace - have a couple of sacrafices handy.

 

[MacBalt]

The Iron is on grass I think. That LB + spear is going to get creamed. You'd have to have at least 1 mace, and/or a BE.

I think we can get a LB, BE, + Mace in time to be ready. We'll have to upgrade the archer in Farcanal and whip a BE in Nongama. Those three units should survive fine, but maybe a suicidal spear/LB would get the job done with less of an investment. (I prefer the try-to-survive plan. )

5th should not do LB or galleons. Let marbles do Galleons. Use cheap, fast chariots (from Engineering) for police duty. Maces are the only critical unit that 5th can consider building if we need more now. Very soon 5th can switch to research (banks, grocer, etc will have to be inserted when available).

Okay. I think we have enough Macemen to let Fifth off the hook for now, though I'd prefer to send a more diverse stack into J's territory. Maybe I'll go for one more mace (or Horse Archer?) from Fifth to take care of that Archer Joao has deep in our territory (under the chariot East of Farcanal).
[EDIT]: And/or two more sacrificial catapults (see below).

We are overflowing in health resources I think. We should probably take the wine before it's gone. We can always get our wheat back or get a 2nd wheat. War weariness coming.

Agreed -- Excellent point. Will trade our Wheat for Pericles' Wine right away.

Ulundi is growing quickly to it's happy cap. Probably shouldn't whip that city much. I'd rather see it get large and work it's cottages. Remember it has an academy. It can even take over the cottage it shares to the south, so our military city can get on the new workshops. It grows fast enough with the 3 clams, so don't spend too much time on the rice (no commerce there)

Okay. Will go for steady growth with concentration on commerce.

Nobamba: I think the J War is mostly linear (meaning we won't split up the stack. I think 4 cats is plenty for this war. So just 1 more, then some maces.

I agree with Sweeta (below). Joao is bound to get Longbows very soon -- probably even before we launch the war. That means we're most likely going to need some sacrificial Catapults, even though it looks like he has only one or two hill cities. We currently have two Cats with the accuracy promotion and one without, so I'd like to build at least two more with the accuracy promotion. I think a few more to sacrifice would be even better, but we may not have time for that...

We can build one or two defensive units after our attacking units are ready. Joao will not have an effective counteratttack force ready, but once we start making inroads into his territory it will be nice to have a couple LB and CB for important citis that we take so that we don't end up trading cities back and forth delaying the outcome of the war.

Okay. I'd rather have some defensive units mixed in with the stacks right away, but I suck at war -- often because I wait too long to start fighting -- so will go with your advice.

We need to get the Joao war going fast, or skip it all together. It is important to get to the other continent ASAP after getting rifelmen. Units become obsolete quickly at standard speed and we need to blitz through at least 2 AI players on the other continent before they get riflemen or grenaders.

*sigh* Agreed. The sooner the better.

The bottom line it that it would be nice to take out Joao and have our entire continent, but he is not essential to opur victory. Joao has no wonders. The additional economic (and research) output would be nice, and not having to keep forces on our continent would also be nice. He just need to be as quick as possible.

War's ETA is 7 or 8 turns. Will that be soon enough? If we can gut Joao down to the capital then we'll be able to mop up with green "extras" easily enough later.

Whoa. I had a busy few days, and this thread has exploded! The plan sounds good, but can't have an indepth look for another few hours. If you've played by then, c'est la vie.

Is that just a nice way of saying I'm a bit too, er, verbose??? Will plan to play about ten hours after posting the revised PPP, so you still have plenty of time to weigh in.

Also, I feel that WT's 4 cats (assuming i read it correctly) are not enough to speed a war and minimise mace losses with medieval archers around. Better to sac a cheaper cat then lose a promoted mace - have a couple of sacrafices handy.

Yes, I agree. I'd be happier with a few more Cats. Maybe we could squeeze an extra quickie or two out of Fifth? Say, two more with Accuracy from Nobamba (to give us the magic four) and two more sacrificial cats from Fifth to bring that total up to three?

Will post another revised plan soon that incorporates these ideas.

 

[MacBalt]

[EDIT]: If nothing further comes up to dramatically change things, I'll plan to play about ten hours from now -- about 10AM GMT-7.

Pre-Play Plan:

1. TURNS TO PLAY: Finish 167, play 168-175?, stop one turn before getting Liberalism.
2. RESEARCH PATH: Finish Philosophy, then Liberalism. Stop one turn before getting Liberalism
3. SCIENCE/GOLD/CULTURE:
   • Current Gold = 186 (96 after upgrading the galley) [-12/turn]
   • Science Rate: 70% (+134 beakers/turn) Will have to lower to 60% or trade for gold or run a turn of 0% science soon.
   • Espionage Rate: 0%
   • Gold Rate: 30% (-12 gold/turn)
   • Culture Rate: 0%
4. INHERITED TURN: Trade Pericles our Wheat for his Wine, upgrade Galleon, upgrade Archer, re-position military, build fort/canal, move other workers.
5. BUILD ORDERS:
   • Fifthburg: Finish Oxford University (5t), then 2 Catapults, then a Horse Archer (for home defense), then Beakers.
   • Parma: Finish Maceman, then Longbow.
   • Marbles: Continue Observatory (13t), whip in 3-4 turns, then Galleons.
   • Engineering: Finish Maceman (1t), then Ballista Elephant followed by Chariots (for home defense).
   • Stoneopolis: Finish Courthouse (1t), then Chariot or other cheap military.
   • Farcanal: Finish Archer/Longbow? (1t?), then Spearmen.
   • Ulundi: Continuing Courthouse (10t).
   • Nobamba: 2 Catapults, then Macemen.
   • Nongoma: Ballista Elephant First, then continue Courthouse (18t).
6. CITY PRIORITIES:
   • Fifthburg: Growth. Pop=11 (happy = 13, health = 18). Work same tiles to get Oxford ASAP. Mine on unimproved forest hill will be ready in two turns; chopped hammers will speed Oxford.
   • Parma: Growth. Pop=6 (happy=14, health=17). May refocus on production after next population growth (in 4 turns).
   • Marbles: Growth. Pop=7 (happy=12, health=17). Will whip observatory and then just build Galleons as it re-grows.
   • Engineering: Growth. Pop=8 (happy=12, health =19). Replace some of that jungle with workshops.
   • Stoneopolis: Growth. Pop=5 (happy=12, health=17). Ugh. Just let it grow, I guess.
   • Farcanal: Growth. Pop=7 (happy=11, health=17). Work the cottage instead of the forest. Production here is pitiful anyway.
   • Ulundi: Growth & Commerce. Pop=11 (happy=13, health=20). Grow steadily with max commerce.
   • Nobamba: Growth. Pop=4 (happy=12, health=15). Build workshops. Replace no-investment cottages (1NW of city and 2W of city) with workshops.
   • Nongoma: Growth. Pop=2 (happy=16, health=19). Work Cows &/or Floodplain Cottage when border expands. (Possible early whip for longbow to join Iron Pillage Force?)
7. WORKERS:
   • Immediately start building a Fort/Canal in the grass/forest tile 2N & 1E of Nongoma.
   • Build workshops around Engineering.
   • Build workshops around Nobamba; after empty grass tile, replace the 2 cottages that have no turn investment yet (1NW of city and 2W of city).
8. MILITARY:
   • Mass invasion troops in three locations:
   • Iron Pillagers: Positioned on Galleon ready to assault the Iron beach = 1 ship & 3 units: 1 Longbow, 1 Ballista Elephant, 1 Maceman -- all loaded on the Galleon.
   • Santarem Assault Force: Positioned on grass/forest tile 1NE of Santarem = Minimum force needed to assure 1 turn conquest of Santarem. Probably 1-2 unupgraded catapults, Maces equal to the number of defending units, and a spear or two. Gustavus Adolphus will start with this group. (Or should he be with the other group?
   • Catapult Invasion Force: Positioned as far West as possible – probably on the jungle/grass tile 1W of the short river = At least 4 Catapults (preferably upgraded) and all units not otherwise committed.
   • Homeland Defense: HDF #1 = One mace and two chariots NW of Ulundi to defend against two or more Portuguese axemen sighted near the copper. HDF #2 = One axe and one chariot in Nongama to defend against possible Portuguese spearman to the SW and/or barbarians to the SE. HDF #3= One Horse Archer (or 2 chariots?) to take care of the Portuguese Archer just East of Farcanal.
9. TECHNOLOGY TRADING:
   • No obvious trades this turnset. Will need some gold soon if possible though.
   • Don’t trade for Theology.
   • Technology gifts? – None this turnset.
10. RESOURCE TRADING: Trade Pericles our Wheat for his Wine.
11. CIVICS CHANGES: None this turnset.
12. POLITICAL DEMANDS:
    • Probably don’t give in to any demands.
    • Do not give in to any demands that would require anarchy (religion or civics change).
    • Do not join any wars.
13. FINAL PLAY NOTES: If any significant new unexpected event occurs, stop and consult the team about our options.

 

[BLubmuz]

I suppose WT is underestimating the defenders in BtS.
8 cats are good, even not enough for a fast war.
I also think that a couple units out of 5th before begin the buildings are necessary.

I guess culdeus will have a lot of fun playing after you.

culdeus, do ya like to swap?

 

[MacBalt]

Checking in now. I'll play in about 30 minutes at the top of the hour.

 

[WastinTime]

Of course 8 cats are good, but a bit overkill. More importantly, we can't wait that long to get started on J. We're already making things much harder by letting him get LB.

EDIT: 4 keepers and 2 sacrificial sounds good to me. Those other 2 new ones you propose probably can't get to the front in time. There won't be any hill cities which we'd want them for if we follow our latest city capture plan (i.e. not going farther south than the capitol.)

 

[WastinTime]

No horse archer from fifth. I posted a sign on Engineering "Mounted" meaning all mounted units come from there. I'd prefer the cheaper chariots since it's just home defense (not likely to be needed.)

 

[greatbeyond]

The plan looks good Balthalion.

Nice catch on the fort/canal, something I had never heard before.

I'm not against vassalizing, but what we have to remember is that Vassal's wonders don't count for us. In this case, Joao doesn't have any wonders so it wouldn't matter. Once we get to the other continent we would have to take those cities with wonders before vassalizing. I lean toward taking Joao out completely, unless we really get bogged down. A plan to win by domination (via vassalizing) would require saving India for last. The other concern is that if vassals land does indeed only count as 50% toward the domination goal, there may not be enough land right away.

At this point I think we need to (in order, in our original core):
build our remaining military builds then,
switch to income producing builds then,
emphasize GP and wonders,
continue building military in cities that are dedicated to only that.
Our pace may seem a little slow, but appear to be right on par with my test games.

Longbows - The reason I suggest not building any is that hopefully we won't give the AI anytime to even consider a counter-attack.
BE and Spears are our mounted defense.
Maces and CBs are our melee defense. Because CBs get a bonus against melee units and first strikes, and melee units don't get a bonus against them, CBs are the better defenders

Our Population needs to grow quickly in our core. That should be a priority over builds as soon as we finish the current builds.

 

[WastinTime]

I also:

1) did not know about forts
2) agree no vassal
3) agree no counter attack will come, so LB are to expensive for police duty (chariot/medics are fast/cheap and heal)

 

[MacBalt]

Of course 8 cats are good, but a bit overkill. More importantly, we can't wait that long to get started on J. We're already making things much harder by letting him get LB.

EDIT: 4 keepers and 2 sacrificial sounds good to me. Those other 2 new ones you propose probably can't get to the front in time. There won't be any hill cities which we'd want them for if we follow our latest city capture plan (i.e. not going farther south than the capitol.)

We've only got 2 keepers and 1 sacrificial right now, so if we get two more keepers from Nobamba now we'll still need at least one more sacrificial. I'd prefer at least two more, even if they've got to catch up a bit on the way to the front. Don't know where we get them if not from Fifth.

No horse archer from fifth. I posted a sign on Engineering "Mounted" meaning all mounted units come from there. I'd prefer the cheaper chariots since it's just home defense (not likely to be needed.)

Yes, I saw the sign. Will nix the HA from Fifth, but I wanted at least one Ballista Elephant from Engineering and that Portuguese Archer near Farcanal bothers me. We don't need a promoted HA for home defense, and Fifth could crank one out fast. I'm afraid chariots won't be enough to take it out and/or cover all our improvements. Oh well, it's only an archer. Let's just make sure we don't forget it's there while we've only got warriors defending some of our major cities.

[EDIT]: Is it possible for Joao to upgrade that Archer to LB once he gets feudalism?

At this point I think we need to (in order, in our original core):
build our remaining military builds then,
switch to income producing builds then,
emphasize GP and wonders,
continue building military in cities that are dedicated to only that.
Our pace may seem a little slow, but appear to be right on par with my test games.

Longbows - The reason I suggest not building any is that hopefully we won't give the AI anytime to even consider a counter-attack.
BE and Spears are our mounted defense.
Maces and CBs are our melee defense. Because CBs get a bonus against melee units and first strikes, and melee units don't get a bonus against them, CBs are the better defenders

Our Population needs to grow quickly in our core. That should be a priority over builds as soon as we finish the current builds.

Thanks for the kind words. I think the main immediate questions now are how much military do we need for the invasion of Portugal and how much can we possibly have ready by a few turns from now. Your point about LBs and CBs is well-taken.

I also:

1) did not know about forts
2) agree no vassal
3) agree no counter attack will come, so LB are to expensive for police duty (chariot/medics are fast/cheap and heal)

Do you have any specific advice about being ready for that pesky little Archer?

 

[MacBalt]

Forgot to ask: What are we doing with the Missionary in India? Just scouting around?

 

[WastinTime]

Archer: when you declare war, he's going to warp over to Ulundi IIRC. Some unit on the way to the front should be able to detour north and nail him.

Missionary. He just landed. Spread him to HRE.

 

[MacBalt]

It is turn 173. We are 1 turn from Liberalism and all went pretty much according to plan. We could get Scientific Method in 6 turns using the current set-up (probably faster if we burn some cash and/or make a few other adjustments). Joao still does not have Feudalism.

Our invasion forces are on station, but Santorum's borders popped so we can't get nearly as good of a head start as we'd hoped. Joao's archer returned to Santorum and currently there are no Portuguese units inside our territory. One of his chariots went South past Nongoma and two of his axes remain up Northwest of Ulundi. We spread Confucianism to the HRE in Prague.

Our Iron Pillage Force consists of 1 BE, 1 Mace, & 1 LB, all on a galleon stationed just outside Joao's border.

Our Santorum Assault Force consists of 5 Maces & 1 Spear (the GG/Medic), with an option to pick up one or more Cats and/or a BE just arriving at the front.

Our Catapult Invasion Force consists of 5 Catapults (4 with Accuracy - one a turn behind IIRC), 6 Maces, 1 Spear, 1 Chariot, & 1 BE (one turn behind).

Homeland Defense Forces are on station as planned (1 chariot is still in Ulundi, 1 turn from arriving at the North station).

The Save

The Autolog:

Spoiler :

Nobamba begins: Catapult (4 turns)
User comment: Traded Pericles our Wheat for his Wine.
User comment: Traded Joao Meditation for 70 gold.
Fifthburg begins: Catapult (1 turns)
Fifthburg begins: Catapult (1 turns)
Marbles begins: Galleon (8 turns)
Engineering begins: Ballista Elephant (4 turns)
Stoneopolis begins: Chariot (30 turns)
Nobamba begins: Catapult (4 turns)
Nobamba begins: Maceman (6 turns)
Nongoma begins: Ballista Elephant (15 turns)
Engineering finishes: Maceman
Stoneopolis finishes: Courthouse
A Hamlet was built near Ulundi
Confucianism has spread: Nongoma

IBT:

Turn 168/500 (1080 AD) [09-Nov-2008 10:35:40]
User comment: Border expansion in Santarem means no quick jump to the West.
Engineering begins: Ballista Elephant (4 turns)
User comment: The archer build in Farcanal transmorgrified into a crossbow (8t instead of 1t).
A Mine was built near Fifthburg
A Workshop was built near Engineering
User comment: Traded Compas to Boudica for 200 gold + WM.
A Village was built near Parma
Engineering finishes: Ballista Elephant
Stoneopolis grows: 6
FarCanal grows: 8
Nobamba grows: 5

IBT:
Confucianism has spread: Bombay (Indian Empire)

Turn 169/500 (1090 AD) [09-Nov-2008 10:58:30]
A Workshop was built near Engineering
Engineering begins: Chariot (2 turns)
Engineering begins: Chariot (2 turns)
Engineering begins: Chariot (2 turns)
Engineering begins: Ballista Elephant (4 turns)
Engineering begins: Chariot (2 turns)
Tech learned: Philosophy
Marbles grows: 8
Nobamba finishes: Catapult
Nongoma's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 170/500 (1100 AD) [09-Nov-2008 11:09:39]
Research begun: Liberalism (5 Turns)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
Fifthburg grows: 14
Fifthburg finishes: Oxford University
Parma grows: 7
Engineering grows: 9
Engineering finishes: Chariot
Stoneopolis grows: 7
A Village was built near Stoneopolis
Nongoma grows: 3

IBT:

Turn 171/500 (1110 AD) [09-Nov-2008 11:19:14]
A Fort was built near Nongoma
A Workshop was built near Ulundi
Engineering begins: Chariot (2 turns)
Fifthburg finishes: Catapult
Marbles grows: 9
Engineering finishes: Chariot
A Village was built near FarCanal
Ulundi grows: 12
Nobamba grows: 5
Nobamba finishes: Catapult
Nongoma finishes: Ballista Elephant

IBT:
Confucianism has spread: Pataliputra (Indian Empire)
Islam founded in a distant land

Turn 172/500 (1120 AD) [09-Nov-2008 11:34:06]
A Workshop was built near Engineering
Confucianism has spread: Prague (Holy Roman Empire)
User comment: Our Missionary plants Confucianism in Prague.
Fifthburg finishes: Catapult
A Village was built near Fifthburg
A Village was built near Parma
Marbles grows: 8
Marbles finishes: Observatory
Stoneopolis grows: 8
FarCanal grows: 9
A Hamlet was built near FarCanal
A Village was built near Nobamba

IBT:
Confucianism has spread: Madurai (Indian Empire)
Attitude Change: Joao II(Portugal) towards Gandhi(India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 173/500 (1130 AD) [09-Nov-2008 11:47:22]
User comment: Charley demands cancel deals with Boudica - refused.
A Cottage was built near Fifthburg
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
Catapult promoted: Accuracy
User comment: Gandhi has Nationalism.
User comment: We could get Scientific Method in 6 turns.

The Session Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1070 AD to 1130 AD:

Turn 167, 1070 AD: You have discovered Feudalism!
Turn 167, 1070 AD: You have discovered Literature!
Turn 167, 1070 AD: Traded Pericles our Wheat for his Wine.
Turn 167, 1070 AD: Traded Joao Meditation for 70 gold.
Turn 167, 1070 AD: You have trained a Maceman in Engineering. Work has now begun on a Ballista Elephant.
Turn 167, 1070 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Stoneopolis. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
Turn 167, 1070 AD: Confucianism has spread in Nongoma.

Turn 168, 1080 AD: Border expansion in Santarem means no quick jump to the West.
Turn 168, 1080 AD: The archer build in Farcanal transmorgrified into a crossbow (8t instead of 1t).
Turn 168, 1080 AD: Traded Compas to Boudica for 200 gold + WM.
Turn 168, 1080 AD: You have trained a Ballista Elephant in Engineering. Work has now begun on a Ballista Elephant.
Turn 168, 1080 AD: A massive barbarian uprising is occurring. The Goths have gathered an army and their axemen seek to plunder civilizations.
Turn 168, 1080 AD: Confucianism has spread in Bombay.

Turn 169, 1090 AD: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 169, 1090 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Nobamba. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 169, 1090 AD: The borders of Nongoma have expanded!
Turn 169, 1090 AD: Inspired Hindu missionaries from the Indian city of Calcutta have greatly expanded the influence of their religion!
Turn 169, 1090 AD: Mikhail Lomonosov (Great Scientist) has been born in Knossos (Pericles)!

Turn 170, 1100 AD: You have constructed Oxford University in Fifthburg. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 170, 1100 AD: You have trained a Chariot in Engineering. Work has now begun on a Ballista Elephant.
Turn 170, 1100 AD: Xi Ling Shi (Great Scientist) has been born in Guimarães (Joao II)!

Turn 171, 1110 AD: Boudica has 5 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Gandhi has 100 gold available for trade
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Gandhi has 8 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Fifthburg. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Marbles has grown to size 9
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have trained a Chariot in Engineering. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
Turn 171, 1110 AD: FarCanal will grow to size 9 on the next turn
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Ulundi has grown to size 12
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Nobamba has grown to size 5
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Nobamba. Work has now begun on a Maceman.
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have trained a Ballista Elephant in Nongoma. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 171, 1110 AD: The Holy Roman city of Nuremberg is suffering civil unrest. Riots and looting have broken out.
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Ananda (Great Prophet) has been born in Rome (Augustus Caesar)!
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Confucianism has spread in Pataliputra.
Turn 171, 1110 AD: Islam has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 172, 1120 AD: Confucianism has spread in Prague.
Turn 172, 1120 AD: Our Missionary plants Confucianism in Prague.
Turn 172, 1120 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Fifthburg. Work has now begun on a Research.
Turn 172, 1120 AD: Marbles has grown to size 8
Turn 172, 1120 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in Marbles. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 172, 1120 AD: Stoneopolis has grown to size 8
Turn 172, 1120 AD: FarCanal has grown to size 9
Turn 172, 1120 AD: Nongoma will grow to size 3 on the next turn
Turn 172, 1120 AD: Confucianism has spread in Madurai.

Turn 173, 1130 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Joao II
Turn 173, 1130 AD: Charley demands cancel deals with Boudica - refused.
Turn 173, 1130 AD: Gandhi has Nationalism.
Turn 173, 1130 AD: We could get Scientific Method in 6 turns.

 

[MacBalt]

Does anyone know how that Ballista Elephant got finished so quickly in Engineering? I did not whip it. It was originally set to complete in 4 turns, but then finished in one. Was the previous Mace whipped, maybe?

 

[MacBalt]

Lots of intriguing tech options at this point. According to our espionage, Gandhi is still 6 turns away from education. That means we probably have time for at least two seductive possibilities:

We could self-research Scientific Method and then take either Communism or Physics (with its free GS) from Liberalism.

We could self-research Replaceable parts (5t), Guilds (3t), and Gunpowder (3t), and then take Rifling from Liberalism for very early Riflemen. (I bet we could either trade for guilds in 5 turns or shave some turns off these quick marks taken from the science advisor.)

 

[MacBalt]

One last thought. I hadn't considered the possibility until now, but it would conceivably be possible to start the war this turn. The galley has enough movement points left to land its troops on the iron, and most of the Santorem assault troops (the maces and spear) could move into position now too. Unfortunately, I've already moved the other forces into a sub-optimal position should we go that route. Just never considered the possibility of launching the war now instead of next turn.

 

[BLubmuz]

Everything seems went as planned, Balth.
Not opened the save, from your report it seems a good TS.

Do you think we can start the war when the cat and the BE join the main stack, or right now?
Do we want Nationalism and the Taj with the GAge, or we let it to G.?
For what do we use Lib?
There's physics after SM, what about that and self-research Comm.?

Of course we must keep an eye on G., we don't wanna loose the race.
I verified and Comm. is more expensive than SM.

Rifling for lib is a good option for a warmongering game, but i'm afraid it's too far away.
Unless we try the Economics route: research all the path to Econ, use the free GM for RP (he LB this if you don't have Nation.), then rifling is at hand.

 

[WastinTime]

I know physics is ~2000 more beakers, but it's not in the critical path. It will delay Communism 8 turns which means rifling delayed 8 turns. Rifles on t192 seems way better than t200. No one has Edu, so it's not a risk to get SM.

So that leaves either Communism free or the other suggestion to try for rifling. Rifling is a smaller tech than Comm and the risk is higher. Gandi will use a GS lightbulb if he gets it.

So I vote Comm (big surprise). It will come just in time to pay for all of J's cities.

 

[WastinTime]

I thought we planned a simultaneous attack on the 1st 2 cities. That means the war won't start for a few. The stack needs to go 3 tiles west. Or should we just start it?

 

[MacBalt]

I thought we planned a simultaneous attack on the 1st 2 cities. That means the war won't start for a few. The stack needs to go 3 tiles west. Or should we just start it?

Mea Culpa.

God, I am such an idiot. When Joao's border popped I just dismissed the idea of moving that stack West. I see now that we've had open borders with Joao all the time -- which should have been obvious with his archers and chariots running around all over the place.

Oh well. The upgraded catapults could not have been in place by now even if I had moved that stack. Small comfort, I know, now that we can see that Joao still doesn't have any longbows.

I think we should just launch the attack now, or wait until next turn and send the cats West right away.

Apologies to the team for the screw-up.