SGOTM 08 - Geezers

Nicely done, HB. :goodjob:

I had a short look at the save. Some cities can still grow at a faster rate which we should encourage.:) I will have a closer look tomorrow.
 
Yes, we do need to play around with which cities are hitting happiness cap and which cities are still a long way from that and adjust accordingly.

What are the objectives for the next turnset?
 
erikthecelt said:
Hawk's up, so a little military action might just happen. Hawk - have you tried pulling out of the cultural barriers in situations like this? it might encourage Shaka to disperse his forces and possibly attack Ulundi.
Click to expand...

Urgh... 10 archers may still be too many. Amazing he is keeping up with us on building military, I guess its because we are building so much other stuff.

I've never tried pulling out of cultural borders, no idea if it would help. It does seem reasonable that he might go on the attack though. I think we have three options:

  1. Pillage his mines/cows, sue for peace (hopefully stopping him from building archers), build some cats, finish him off.
  2. Pillage his mines/cows, leave his land (maybe getting him to leave the city), kill his army, finish him off.
  3. Try to attack now. I would pillage his mines and collect all the units in one tile. Our single biggest advantage is we have the medic. We can heal faster than his archers. In a battle of attrition, we might win. However, we won’t have much stack left when we do. I think we might be successful, but it is dicey.

I am inclined to attack now. I’m not sure the downside is all that bad… worse case, we lose a bunch of units, then sue for peace. I suppose we would promote up some of his archers, but we outproduce him by a ton. We can always come back and kill him later.

I’d like some more discussion on this topic.

In the mean time, I’ll capture a plan later tonight. I did notice Joao will trade Compass, we should make a trade. I'd like to play tomorrow night, next week is going to be another bad one at work.
 
I'm happy with you playing tomorrow night. I have faith that you will play the set well, even without another week's worth of analysis.

I think we should attack now. My guess is that suiciding all our catapults will be enough to weaken the defenders sufficiently for them to be taken out in 2 turns.
 
The-Hawk said:
I think we have three options:

  1. Pillage his mines/cows, sue for peace (hopefully stopping him from building archers), build some cats, finish him off.
  2. Pillage his mines/cows, leave his land (maybe getting him to leave the city), kill his army, finish him off.
  3. Try to attack now. I would pillage his mines and collect all the units in one tile. Our single biggest advantage is we have the medic. We can heal faster than his archers. In a battle of attrition, we might win. However, we won’t have much stack left when we do. I think we might be successful, but it is dicey.

I am inclined to attack now.
Click to expand...

We have near enough parity on the number of units that can kill Shaka's archers. I have to say I do feel a bit uneasy at not having more spare units. OTOH this 'over by Christmas' war has been dragging on for far too long so I agree with attack now. IIRC we have a medic 3 and an ordinary medic so I don't think it's necessary to gather all our forces into one stack. It also gives Shaka more time to build units. At most, pillage one mine and have two stacks.

I agree with trading for Compass with 'friendly' Joao. Given our earlier generosity to Joao let's not overpay for Compass though.
 
I think we need that city so I would go for it. The reason he has so many units is because he's whipping every few turns. Leaving should draw out some troops but would mean another turn set or two before we get the prize. 4 cats should soften up the stack.
 
Turn Plan:

War:

  • Try to capture Shaka’s city. Make peace if we are unsuccessful.
  • If we have units left alive, will scout southern lands.

Builds and worker actions:

  • Yaso: Market -> Granary
  • Nobamba: Spy -> Granary (unless we need another military unit for Shaka).
  • Ankor Thom is working a single hammer tile and starving. I think I’ll work a 2 commerce tile with sufficient food. Moia Statues will take forever anyhow.
  • Ankow Wat: Missionary -> missionary. Next missionary goes to Ankow Thom so we can raise our happy cap and grow another specialist.
  • Nagara: Archer -> Granary

Tech: Music -> Paper

GP Management:

  • I would like Hari to get a GS done before Yaso pops its next GP. Still want to bulb Philo. Yaso might pop a prophet instead of a GS. I think I can MM Hari to finish first by building up food, then working three GS’s.
  • If we do get Philo 1st, I will try to MM Yaso to get a priest working. Would be nice to get our second prophet right away.
  • Nobamba is working a spy specialist. Should we make him a Scientist? Not sure we need a great spy.

Tech Trade: Get compass from Joao.

Edit:

Civics: Revolt to Hereditary Rule once the war situation has cleared up.
 
Usually the AI moves out the dispensable units if you remove your units threatening their cities, but I am not sure how they treat defensive units like archers.
 
I don't think we want to give Joao another good tech for compass.
A great spy would be useful but Nobamba is never going to produce a GP so it's either a merchant to help raise the overall tech rate higher or a scientist.
You should try for the GS with Hari - it will be the last GP we get from that city.

They will move out the excess archers as well.
 
@ The-Hawk turn plan - Do Yas and Nobamba really need granaries rather than other buildings? We're not running slavery so other buildings such as markets etc might be better?

HB traded for Monarchy in his turnset. After your successful capture of Shaka's city (Please note the confident, but not arrogant, manner if which I said that ;)) might be a suitable point to revolt to Monarchy especially if there are any other civic changes required.

EDIT: Monarchy is Joao's favourite civic IIRC so it wouldn't hurt on that front either.

EDIT 2: The progress screen power graph is interesting. It seems a couple of teams went for far more power than ourselves at an earlier stage. Possibly without bothering too much about wonders.
 
Sam_Yeager said:
@ The-Hawk turn plan - Do Yas and Nobamba really need granaries rather than other buildings? We're not running slavery so other buildings such as markets etc might be better?
Click to expand...

I tend to build granaries routinely. As we grow the happy cap (e.g. from HR), pop growth gets so slow without one. We might need the health as well.

However, I don't have strong feelings on this. Anyone else have a point of view?

Sam_Yeager said:
HB traded for Monarchy in his turnset. After your successful capture of Shaka's city (Please note the confident, but not arrogant, manner if which I said that ;)) might be a suitable point to revolt to Monarchy especially if there are any other civic changes required.
Click to expand...

Yes, good catch. We should revolt to HR asap. I will upgrade my plan.
 
I always build granaries - even with cities close to the happy cap. A worker ready and waiting when you get a new source of happy is better than waiting for 10 or more turns to grow one.
 
erikthecelt said:
I always build granaries - even with cities close to the happy cap.
Click to expand...

My query was more about whether building something else e.g. a market (increased :gold:) or forge (increased :hammers:) would be better rather than being against a granary as such.
 
Ok, now that I've loaded up the game I can see that Yas already has a forge and is building a market. It might be worth considering a CH for Yas for the extra spy points but I can live with a granary there.

It's not quite so clear cut in Nobamba as it doesn't really need a granary. Either a temple for additional :) or a market (maybe) could be better builds than a granary. All I ask is that we can justify why we went for particular builds rather than just going for them because it's what we normally do.
 
Sam_Yeager said:
Ok, now that I've loaded up the game I can see that Yas already has a forge and is building a market. It might be worth considering a CH for Yas for the extra spy points but I can live with a granary there.

It's not quite so clear cut in Nobamba as it doesn't really need a granary. Either a temple for additional :) or a market (maybe) could be better builds than a granary. All I ask is that we can justify why we went for particular builds rather than just going for them because it's what we normally do.
Click to expand...

What makes you say a granary is not needed at Nobamba? Is it because you thinkwe are going to choke it off indefinitely? would you hold the pop level at a specific size permanently?
 
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