SGOTM 08 - Geezers

[Harbourboy]

Wow. I don't check this thread for a day and have to catch up with two pages of posts, including our victory!

Well done, everyone!

Anyone prepared to summarise what they think we could have done differently? Any ideas yet what the winning team might have done?

All in all, this is much more satisfying than that frustrating Gandhi in Space game!

 

[The-Hawk]

I have a horrible feeling that our power curve is the way it is because our strategy was to go in late and heavy. This probably means that the other teams went in early and conquered the world with longbows

No doubt this is why our power curve is so high. However, I'm not convinced early conquest means teams will have a better wonder ratio than us. Don't forget how many late wonders were built by Gandhi for us.

The team that wins will be the team that teched the fastest, not the team who conquered the fastest. Having said that, I have no doubt someone like CRC will finish first because they will have tech'd better than us.

Anyone prepared to summarise what they think we could have done differently? Any ideas yet what the winning team might have done?

My gut feel is we wasted too much time chasing early wonders that really weren't important to our goal of increasing our tech pace. Doesn't help that we missed several by a turn or two.

Also, as always, I think we wasted too many city builds on non-critical stuff. Not saying we did bad, but the best teams will not waste a hammer.

Also, Shaka did distract us early. We should have either waited longer to attack him (did more REX'ing) or we should have killed him quicker.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Well, if one of the other teams looks like they've retired, then surely they can get the wooden spoon .

I'm pretty certain a team needs to have finished the game, rather than retired, to get the wooden spoon. However looking at the rules it seems that the wooden spoon goes to the team with the lowest final score. Normally this would be the team who finished last but in this game presumably it will be the team with the lowest wonder points per turn ratio. So AgedOne may well be correct that another team will get the wooden spoon but not for the reason he thought.

Also, Shaka did distract us early. We should have either waited longer to attack him (did more REX'ing) or we should have killed him quicker.

I certainly agree that Shaka took up waay too much of our time. Even more depressing is the fact that we never actually killed him off.

 

[Misotu]

The team that wins will be the team that teched the fastest, not the team who conquered the fastest. Having said that, I have no doubt someone like CRC will finish first because they will have tech'd better than us.

2 gold and 1 gems early in the capital's BFC with bureaucracy. If they didn't research faster than us they deserve a spanking



You're probably right about the builds & Wonders & Shaka ...

 

[The-Hawk]

2 gold and 1 gems early in the capital's BFC with bureaucracy. If they didn't research faster than us they deserve a spanking

Yes, you are right about this. BTW, one thing you will learn about Geezers... if we ever have any luck in SGTOM's it generally seems to be bad. In the Deity OCC game, we had some eye-popping bad luck with an early AI DOW and a run of low percentage GPs (IIRC it took us something like 4-5 tries to get our first GS at >70% odds). Things like gold popping up in our capital generally don't happen to us. We are not the best players in SGOTM, but the RNG's certainly don't smile upon us either.

Thought about the game some more. I think our approach was valid (and most teams seem to be taking the same approach). However, we did wait too long to start our conquest. This is evident by the fact that we teched all the way to Elevator.

However, this game was nothing to be ashamed about. We had a high level plan, stuck to it, and executed. For our team, not a bad result at all.

 

[Misotu]

The discussion in some of the other threads is quite ... um ... intense

Wastin' Time is mean and moody for a change <snurkle> but I'm particularly enjoying Murky Waters at the moment, who are drinking beer and hurling insults freely with aplomb. Apparently half the team are freekin girlie builders. The girlie builder half are countering by suggesting that the other half use the one, two, many, lots version of arithmetic and are boozers of doubtful sexuality to boot.

Good lord. How sordid

 

[Misotu]

@The-Hawk: The other teams are indeed largely taking the same approach and some who went earlier are running into quite tricky situations - cities in revolt, danger of flipping, agonising over vassals, wealth crises etc.

A few of the other teams seem to have used slavery quite extensively. I don't use slavery well - usually avoid it - so this is an interesting thought. There is discussion about using rush overflow for building Wonders too ... we didn't consider this. I wonder whether that might have helped a bit?

It will be very interesting when the final results come in

 

[Misotu]

I certainly agree that Shaka took up waay too much of our time. Even more depressing is the fact that we never actually killed him off.

Shaka will never thank us for it, but our magnanimous and merciful approach allowed him to enjoy the Holiday Festivities with his family.

Actually, having perused a few threads now, my head is spinning. One thing we have done really well in this game is communication. We have posted straightforward plans, with explanations. We have discussed them in ways that are accessible to the non-technical like me (I simply cannot converse using nothing but formulae). We have posted turn-reports in a sensible manner - summarising the key points but not descending into such an ocean of detail that the reader simply baulks at trying to read through. Perhaps most importantly, as The-Hawk says, we agreed a high-level strategy and stuck to it.

You know, regardless of the outcome of this game in terms of rankings, I think this bodes well for the future. Now all we need to do is improve the quality of the strategy that we're communicating to each other so excellently

*Really* glad I joined the Geezers. Some of the other threads are just ... exhausting ... for anyone without a degree in astrophysics

 

[AgedOne]

The discussion in some of the other threads is quite ... um ... intense

Wastin' Time is mean and moody for a change <snurkle> but I'm particularly enjoying Murky Waters at the moment, who are drinking beer and hurling insults freely with aplomb. Apparently half the team are freekin girlie builders. The girlie builder half are countering by suggesting that the other half use the one, two, many, lots version of arithmetic and are boozers of doubtful sexuality to boot.

Good lord. How sordid

Yes! I've noticed how life in some of the other teams can be a little more . . . invigorating . . . than the quiet waters of the Geezers.

I'm sure it can't be true, but it's rumoured that Murky Waters are the only team to use slavery effectively - - on each other!

Some of the teams seem to be reasonable, well-adjusted sorts, where an average guy could fit in, but there are some others where you'd be afraid to waste a hammer for fear of public ridicule and abuse.

One of the top teams may consist entirely of cyborgs, from what their thread reveals about them!

I'm not really a veteran Geezer, having only been with us for 3 campaigns, but my experience is that we are all generally easy-going in our treatment of each other. We say 'well done' to players after a turnset, and if someone does something completely bone-headed (like the time I tried to make a super-medic but promoted several units instead of one ) then the worst they get is a sharp intake of breath and someone gently pointing out what might have been better.
We don't abuse each other's families or ancestors. No. The worst behaviour we have is what appears in print to be a mild sulk (Well, if you're not going to take my ideas seriously...)

Seems like a safe place for me to stay. After all, which other team would accept a 'girlie builder' who is also a boozer. (Which I try to hide by taking on the warlike turnsets and then waving my fist shouting "Grrrrr!")

 

[Sam_Yeager]

The following comparison between CRC's game and our's at selected points may prove interesting:

CRC

Turn    Year    Ratio    Comment
71      1160BC  10/310   Palace, Oracle
111     100BC   20/310   Mids, GLh
141     620AD   55/310   Ulundi already captured
156     920AD   60/310   Zulus eliminated this turn.
208     1480AD  105/310  Score & power leader

Geezers

Turn    Year    Ratio    Comment
77      950BC   10/310   Palace, Oracle
117     50AD    10/310   We missed out on Mids.
139     580AD   25/310   Ulundi already captured
160     1000AD  30/310   uMgung captured 800AD.
202     1420AD  55/310   Ghandhi is score leader,
                         Caesar is power leader,
                         We are 3rd & 4th respectively

Misotu has already commented on the use of whip overflow in other threads. I suspect this accounts for some of the difference between ourselves & CRC wrt wonders. Missing out on the Mids obviously affected our research rate and may well be the reason why we concentrated on Caste instead of Slavery. GLh will have helped CRC's research, not to mention their jammy resource pops by Yas. I can't remember if we tried for GLh or not.

 

[markh]

I would have stopped playing SGOTMs if this team would have broken up. I like to the way we are playing. We have a nice level of communication and critics come in a mannered way. Nobody is perfect and it is just a game and everybody should have fun with it. Most important I learned a lot playing in this team. I do not mind where we finish in the competition. It is a good feeling to have won the game according to the objectives again.

Regarding our game I am very satisfied with it. We ended controlling all wonders, but one. We had a good plan and sticked to it. In a single player game I would have cleared our continent sooner. We were a little shaky about Joao. We thought we could use him for our research, but he was so backward that he did not contribute anything. We realized this a little late. His earlier execution could have sped up our invasion on the other continent, but it doesn't really matter. Did I mention that I like late game wars.

In BTS I am also much more hesitant to use slavery, because I ALWAYS get revolts in my capital. In Vanilla and Warlords I used slavery in higher levels very much.

 

[Misotu]

Missing out on the Mids obviously affected our research rate and may well be the reason why we concentrated on Caste instead of Slavery. GLh will have helped CRC's research, not to mention their jammy resource pops by Yas. I can't remember if we tried for GLh or not.

This is interesting. Not getting the Mids would definitely affect our research - we put a lot of effort into getting to representation, but of course it was much later. I think we didn't try for the Lighthouse - my test games indicated that we couldn't do that as well as our higher priorities, but perhaps we should've been a bit more confident ...

Slavery. I wonder ... does anyone on the team like it and know how to use it? I would definitely have to answer no to both questions but I'd quite like to learn

 

[Misotu]

Seems like a safe place for me to stay. After all, which other team would accept a 'girlie builder' who is also a boozer. (Which I try to hide by taking on the warlike turnsets and then waving my fist shouting "Grrrrr!")

Sadly, I am actually a girlie builder, without the quotation marks and on both counts <snurkle>

Actually, and I know this is a bit mystical, but waving a fist and shouting "Grrrrr!" is rumoured to be quite effective in ways that Civers don't quite understand as yet ...

 

[Harbourboy]

we agreed a high-level strategy and stuck to it.

That is a victory in itself because we can't say we did this very well in previous games. I think we learnt some lessons from our previous adventures, plus I think Misotu added some good balance to the team with some quite different ways of looking at things.

Happy New Year, Geezers!

 

[Misotu]

We were a little shaky about Joao. We thought we could use him for our research, but he was so backward that he did not contribute anything. We realized this a little late. His earlier execution could have sped up our invasion on the other continent, but it doesn't really matter. Did I mention that I like late game wars.

Yes, I think this is probably true. I was very hesitant to attack Joao early, because he was our only friend and a solid one, due to the religion affinity. I can fight ok once I get going, but I always say I'm a poor militarist because I'm reluctant to go until I'm sure of victory. Too late ... always too late, as my competitive games demonstate more than adequately <sob>

In BTS I am also much more hesitant to use slavery, because I ALWAYS get revolts in my capital. In Vanilla and Warlords I used slavery in higher levels very much.

Geezers' Luck says we would get the same revolts. But still ...

 

[Misotu]

Happy New Year, Geezers!

Happy New Year HB and thanks for being so welcoming!

(Sorry about all the posts today guys - it's just that I'm playing a low-level Time game as an experiment and keep having to go out to desktop to avoid a crash. Every time I do, I check the thread and make some inane remark to amuse myself.

Er. Sorry. )

 

[AgedOne]

Happy New Year, Geezers!

Ah, Yes, HB, you've reached it already of course. Happy New Year to you.
I trust everything works as normal in 2009. Gravity, light, strong and weak electromagnetic forces...

Sadly, I am actually a girlie builder, without the quotation marks and on both counts <snurkle>

You realise I now have this image of you: overalls and hard hat, perched high up on a scaffolding, but distracted from the serious work around you by thoughts of those extra bits of MM you forgot to do before you saved away.

Actually, and I know this is a bit mystical, but waving a fist and shouting "Grrrrr!" is rumoured to be quite effective in ways that Civers don't quite understand as yet ...

Hmmm. Starting to get concerned now.
Unless, of course, you are referring to the new Pirate Captain unit that's recently become available... looks a little like De Niro in Stardust...

(Sorry about all the posts today guys - it's just that I'm playing a low-level Time game as an experiment and keep having to go out to desktop to avoid a crash. Every time I do, I check the thread and make some inane remark to amuse myself.

Er. Sorry. )

I understand.
Good luck with the time travel experiments. Keep away from your ancestors. And let us know how 2009 turns out, won't you?

 

[Misotu]

Look, AgedOne, I don't know where you get these ideas. I only wear the hard hat for the time travel. The scaffolding I can do blindfold. And I **hardly ever** wake up in the night more than a couple of times thinking about the MM I forgot to do. Honestly. Hardly ever.

The overalls are just practical. I do the "Grrrrrr" a lot, and the spit can really messy up my usual off-the-shoulder designer wear. Do you guys know *nothing*???

Heh. Now I think everyone sees the obvious superiority of the girly-builder mentality. Especially when it comes to washing out those spit stains

Edited to add: Yeah The game was about to crash again. What I suffer simply to examine the obviously irrefutable arguement posed by Wastin' Time that Sid's Sushi is the way to go. Now, I think Cereal Mills for certain types of maps ... but if you can break the 3 squares limit for new cities on archipelago I could be wrong. I need more MM ... arrghh.

Grrrrrr!

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Good luck with the time travel experiments.

Hilarious.

Now I think everyone sees the obvious superiority of the girly-builder mentality.

Phew! It's a good job we put this game to bed before the drinks came out in force.

@HB - Hope the New Year is going well for you. A little over four and a half hours to go for me. I just hope the mulled wine tastes ok.

 

[AgedOne]

The scaffolding I can do blindfold.

Hey! I think I've seen some of your work locally.

And I **hardly ever** wake up in the night more than a couple of times thinking about the MM I forgot to do. Honestly. Hardly ever.

The overalls are just practical. I do the "Grrrrrr" a lot, and the spit can really messy up my usual off-the-shoulder designer wear. Do you guys know *nothing*???

Heh. Now I think everyone sees the obvious superiority of the girly-builder mentality. Especially when it comes to washing out those spit stains
Grrrrrr!

Mmm. Now I'm at the Geezers New Year's Party. A large hall, elegantly decorated. Lots of fine clothes, food and drink. Over in one corner, AgedOne and Misotu are drinking rum & petrol mixed 1:1 (and lit). They are saying 'Grrr!' a lot and beginning to attract strange stares from the others . . . partly because they wonder where we got drinks that good . . . partly because the conversation is just wierding them out. HB is asleep in another corner. He started 13 hours ahead of the rest! Hawk and Erik are still sober and checking their watches incessantly - they still have many hours to go.


Back to reality. Now where's that mulled wine gone? We've got about 4 1/2 hours to go.....