SGOTM 08 - Geezers

[Sam_Yeager]

Just looking at the calculations in MW's thread gives me a headache, never mind trying to work out if they make sense. Thankfully I've never harboured any thoughts of trying to join their team.

 

[Misotu]

@AgedOne: Running a more popular religion while building the AP and then switching just at the end for exactly 5 turns has some great benefits, especially if your civ is spiritual and you can switch in and out with no anarchy.

It can be deployed in several ways. You can simply choose the religion favoured by your neighbours, (or worst enemy), making a DoW less likely. But don't forget the side benefit of running another religion - you build friendly relations with the civs who share it while you are chopping the AP, which gives you the option of running no religion after the AP is complete, or switching back to the popular religion and regaining the brothers of the faith bonus that you've accrued in time for the elections. Hattie and Ramses are sometimes so friendly from org relig etc that they will still vote for you even if they don't like your religion ...

Yet another useful option for affecting the vote and speeding your final victory

One thing I do like about religious victories from the EQM point of view is that many of those 30+ leaders have a trait, or starting techs, that mean they are reasonable choices for the victory type. Hunting for the scout and camps; mysticism and mining so useful. Wheel is a plus for larger maps. Agriculture helps. Industrious is great. Financial speeds research, reducing/removing the need to delay the Oracle. Spiritual rocks.

Playing different civs makes for a slightly different strategy each time - then throw in different map types and there's more variety again. Combine any civ starting with hunting with a Boreal map, say. A billion deer which you can camp right away (so no need for agriculture etc) and loads of forest to chop. Plus a scout to zip around finding your future friends. On the downside though, missionary movement is hindered by the terrain so you have to factor that in.

Now ... if only someone could help me with my Domination hopelessness. I just *can't* get the hang of playing that correctly

 

[Misotu]

Just looking at the calculations in MW's thread gives me a headache, never mind trying to work out if they make sense.

My feelings exactly. I know that the mathematical approach wins every time - but I just like a slightly looser approach

 

[erikthecelt]

I was at a bit of a loose end this afternoon so I thought I would compare our tech order and speed with Fifth Element.

Spoiler Geezers Tech Order :

3520BC  Animal Husbandry
3040BC  Bronze Working
2880BC  Fishing
*** 2680BC  DoW Shaka
2480Bc  Writing
2320BC  Mysticism
2160BC  Mediation
2040BC  Priesthood
1520BC  Code of Laws
1440BC  Wheel
1360BC  Mathematics
*** 1360Bc  Oracle built
1320BC  Civil Service
1160BC  Masonry
875BC   Construction
850BC   Sailing
800BC   Agriculture
725BC   Pottery
500BC   Alpahabet
225BC   Currency
175Bc   Polytheism
50BC    Aesthetics
*** 1AD  Peace with Shaka
1AD     Archery
1AD     Horseback Riding
1AD     Iron Working
75AD    Literature
*** 250AD DoW Shaka
325AD   Metal Casting
560AD   Calendar
580AD   Monarchy
*** 800 AD Peace with Shaka
800AD   Music
820AD   Compass
900AD   Paper
1020AD  Education
1090AD  Philosophy
1170AD  Machinery
1170AD  Feudalism
1170AD  Monotheism
1180AD  Liberalism
1190AD  Nationalism
1220AD  Optics
1230AD  Engineering
1300AD  Printing Press
1300AD  Drama
1310AD  Constitution
1340AD  Theology
1410AD  Democracy
1420AD  Guilds
1420AD  Gunpowder
1460AD  Banking
1490AD  Astronomy
1515AD  Replaceable Parts
1525AD  Economics
1535AD  Chemistry
1545AD  Rifling
1575AD  Steel
1590AD  Corporation
1615AD  Steam Power
1650AD  Assembly Line
1675AD  Railroad
1675AD  Combustion
1700AD  Scientific Method
1720AD  Physics
1750AD  Electricity
1790AD  Industrialism
1802AD  Fascism
1810AD  Military Tradition
1814AD  Artillery
1820AD  Communism
1832AD  Rocketry
1844AD  Military Science
1850AD  Plastics
1862AD  Radio
1882AD  Satellites
1894AD  Composites
1904AD  Computers
1915AD  Robotics
1919AD  Mass Media
1926AD  Biology
1932AD  Medicine
1936AD  Refrigeration

Spoiler Fifth Element Tech Order :

3520BC  Animal Husbandry
3280BC  Fishing
3040BC  Wheel
2720Bc  Writing
2440BC  Sailing
2320BC  Mysticism
2160Bc  Polytheism
2080BC  Masonry
2160BC  Mediation
2000BC  Priesthood
1400BC  Code of Laws
1080BC  Mathematics
1040BC  Civil Service
875BC   Alphabet
850BC   Bronze Working
825BC   Pottery
825BC   Iron Working
600BC   Metal Casting
325BC   Machinery
150BC   Compass
1AD     Monarchy
1AD     Agriculture
100AD   Optics
300AD   Paper
475AD   Construction
475AD   Archery
500AD   Meditation
500AD   Monotheism
500AD   Calendar
560AD   Currency
760AD   Horseback Riding
880AD   Astronomy
900AD   Aesthetics
980AD   Education
1060AD  Printing Press
1070AD  Feudalism
1070AD  Literature
1090AD  Philosophy
1180AD  Scientific Method
1190AD  Liberalism
1200AD  Communism
1200AD  Engineering
1200AD  Guilds
1210AD  Banking
1240AD  Economics
1250AD  Replaceable Parts
1270AD  Gunpowder
1320AD  Rifling
1370AD  Nationalism
1370AD  Drama
1370AD  Theology
1370AD  Music
1400AD  Chemistry
1440AD  Steel
1460AD  Constitution
1470AD  Military Tradition
1510AD  Physics
1535AD  Democracy
1575AD  Steam
1585AD  Divine Right
1600AD  Electricity
1620AD  Radio
1635AD  Military Science
1635AD  Mass Media
1645AD  Biology
1655AD  Corporation
1660AD  Medicine
1680AD  Assembly Line

Apart from the differences in the tech order it certainly seems that Fifth Element did better tech deals as well as being faster at teching than ourselves.

I had a look at these this afternoon. It seems we were ahead in tech at 1 AD and fell behind by 500 AD. The critical difference was Compass/Optics and meeting the other AI. This gave 5th Element the tech boost to move past us.

 

[AgedOne]

I had a look at these this afternoon. It seems we were ahead in tech at 1 AD and fell behind by 500 AD. The critical difference was Compass/Optics and meeting the other AI. This gave 5th Element the tech boost to move past us.

How strange. I checked back over the thread, and that period seems to coincide with a spell when we lost our normally high level of posting. The entire time period from 175 BC to 475 AD was covered in just 2 pages! Completely out of character for the chatty Geezers!
Now this might be pure coincidence.
Or it could be that we play our best stuff when we are all contributing to the discussion.

 

[Misotu]

That is interesting ...

I think the critical mistake was going to war too early and we should have got out there, as you say, and traded. That affected the rest of the game - after we got into difficulties with Shaka, I think it meant that our final attack was overkill militarily - and too late- because our collective mindset was coloured by the Shaka set-back*.

We live and learn

* Which probably led to the drop-off in postings. We probably should simply have researched and then launched a mega-assault. The fact that it was Shaka, as opposed to a more peaceful civ, also contributed to the early-war appeal.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I think the critical mistake was going to war too early and we should have got out there, as you say, and traded. That affected the rest of the game - after we got into difficulties with Shaka, I think it meant that our final attack was overkill militarily

I must admit I certainly pushed for a strong force even if it was overkill. Mind you I suspect I might have done that anyway as we've been caught out in the past when we've tried to be stingy with attack forces. Perhaps the debacle with Shaka meant that more of the team agreed with me than normal.

OTOH it was quite a nice change not to have to worry about rolling over the AI. We just need to work out how not to be as excessively overpowered in the future.

 

[erikthecelt]

I think we were afflicted with wonderlust at the time. Trying to grab the Library, mausoleum and other stuff.

That's said, let's not overlook the wonderful job we did early in the game. We beat them to the CS sling and had that lovely bronze mine for years before they did. We have seriously upped our game to the point where we may not win the matching set of Welsh love spoons I was looking to add to my collection.

 

[Misotu]

@Sam: We made all the decisions as a team - no finger-pointing here! I was as keen as anyone to see Shaka gone and I definitely contributed to the mid-game lack of direction

@erik: Absolutely. It's neat that you put the effort into that analysis, otherwise we wouldn't have known how much we got right!

 

[Harbourboy]

This game definitely worked out better than what I would have achieved by myself for this start.

 

[erikthecelt]

It seems that there will be a long wait before SGOTM09. Is there any interest in keeping the team working on a practice game or reviving the last one?

PS - I've been wading through XTeam's thread - it makes very interesting reading but more importantly it shows that we had a good start but got off track with Shaka. Something I think we all realized.

 

[AgedOne]

It seems that there will be a long wait before SGOTM09. Is there any interest in keeping the team working on a practice game or reviving the last one?

I'm not saying I don't want to hang out with you guys, or anything , but I'd really like to concentrate on improving my single-player games for a few weeks. Get a few wins under my belt.
Never know. I might be more useful to the team afterwards.
(PS. It's not you. It's me)

 

[Misotu]

AgedOne has HoF Fever - he's shooting for Deity EQM I reckon

 

[AgedOne]

AgedOne has HoF Fever - he's shooting for Deity EQM I reckon

Sss sss sss *snicker*

 

[Sam_Yeager]

It seems that there will be a long wait before SGOTM09. Is there any interest in keeping the team working on a practice game or reviving the last one?

I wouldn't want to restart a game. Equally I don't really want to start a game that we're unlikely to finish. If we did start a game then I suggest playing it on quick speed and starting somewhere in the ADs. After all it seems to be our midgame where the misjudgements creep in.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I notice that some of the other teams seem to calculate their wonder progress on the basis of a wonder every x.xx turns e.g. OSS had a wonder every 4.xx turns.

Geezers obviously believe in integer numbers as we achieved a wonder every 6 turns.

 

[erikthecelt]

I notice that some of the other teams seem to calculate their wonder progress on the basis of a wonder every x.xx turns e.g. OSS had a wonder every 4.xx turns.

Geezers obviously believe in integer numbers as we achieved a wonder every 6 turns.

XTeam ventured into the realm of higher mathematica as well.
Just too much effort for me and I have no ability with math anyway.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

There's been some movement amongst various teams, including CRC, so it's time for an update.

Team                    Turn    Year       Won. Pts  Ratio
Chokonuts               250     1700AD     100/310   0.4
CRC                     212     1510AD     170/310   0.80188679245283018867924528301887
Fifth Element           258     1740AD     210/310   0.813953488372093023255813953488371
Gypsy Kings             166     1060AD     75/310    0.45180722891566265060240963855422
Geezers (F)             366     1946AD     305/310   0.83333333333333333333333333333333
Misfits                 220     1550AD     90/310    0.40909090909090909090909090909091
Murky Waters            202     1420AD     115/310   0.56930693069306930693069306930693
One Short Straw (F)     256     1730AD     305/310   1.19140625
Smurkz                  190     1300AD     65/310    0.34210526315789473684210526315789
The Real Ms. Beyond (R) 100     375Bc      25/310    0.080645161290322580645161290322581
Trash Team              267     1785AD     60/310    0.22471910112359550561797752808989
Unusual Suspects        188     1280AD     70/310    0.37234042553191489361702127659574
Wonder Bumpkins         228     1590AD     40/310    0.17543859649122807017543859649123
Xteam                   206     1460AD     180/310   0.8737864077669902912621359223301

 

[Misotu]

Your calculations don't include the penalty AlanH will no doubt impose on teams who finish more than a month late

 

[Misotu]

Sss sss sss *snicker*

Hah! You may jest, but we are not fooled. BTW, did you see there is a major gauntlet running, Emperor level, Religious Victory - on the hemisphere map, which will be interesting Now that we are playing at deity level (cough cough), should be a cakewalk.