SGOTM 08 - XTeam

[ShannonCT]

Placing a camp on the Ivory isn't required immediately so as to risk the Worker. Would it be worth working to connect the Gold Hill to keep the capital happy?

Also, I can't remember where the Warrior currently is?

The warrior could explore a few tiles SW and then get back in time to fogbust to cover the worker if desired. Then it could start back toward Zululand on turn 38 and get there in time for open borders with Writing.

Does the Warrior need to be moved to get ready to preposition for taking out a Worker from Shaka?
@Shannon - I played around a bit with Worker steal on the practice save and lost my Warrior to an Archer. Danged RNG!
What will be the best way to approach this?
Or is that for the next turn set?

I dont see any tiles along Shaka's southern border that he is likely to send a worker to right now, so we probably wont be able to steal a worker until after getting open borders. Gotta be careful about declaring war with a warrior in Shaka's border, because he will be booted into the first neutral tile that is closer to our capital. He might need to get out of Zulu borders before declaring.

Did you pair the scout with the warrior to guard the worker(s)? Did you take the route back home with the best defensive bonuses (east of the river and on forested hills)?

 

[killercane]

In general I like SCT's plan, but I also would like to see us just road grass forest SW, then plains forest w, and then the PH. Then the settler can be founded just the same turn as suggested still.

There is no need to road the copper yet, one worker after chopping can road cow and then gold, and still loop back to land on the copper in 1 turn from the goldhill. I thought PH city was going to build warrior then workboat to explore; if we connect copper we can only build axe or spear there.

 

[leif erikson]

Did you pair the scout with the warrior to guard the worker(s)? Did you take the route back home with the best defensive bonuses (east of the river and on forested hills)?

It gets a bit complicated, of course. By the time I arrived near the copper hill, he had finished the mine! So I ended up chasing the workers around until I could get in a place where I could take one without getting booted from the border when declaring. Got him but then got killed, while in a forested tile, by an Archer coming out of a city. Tough RNG luck... A second Warrior got killed while trying to pillage the copper. Not my night!

I'll have to give it another try.

 

[leif erikson]

Updated Roster:
rrau - UP
Frederiksberg - On Deck
Cactus Pete
Gator
leif
ShannonCT
Killercane

Mad Professor -
Jimmy Thunder - On Sabbatical

 

[ShannonCT]

OK, I guess we have some conflicting priorities for our workers. Do we care about hooking copper and getting an axe to Zululand ASAP? Do we want to use both workers to pasture the cows to get them up in 2 turns rather than 4, if it means spending extra worker turns in movement?

rrau, you're right, the chop doesn't speed up the worker now that we have the copper mine. So the chop would really be for the settler's benefit.

 

[leif erikson]

OK, I guess we have some conflicting priorities for our workers. Do we care about hooking copper and getting an axe to Zululand ASAP? Do we want to use both workers to pasture the cows to get them up in 2 turns rather than 4, if it means spending extra worker turns in movement?

I think you have the priorities straight. We need an Axe headed for Shaka asap and we need our second city up and running.

If we hold the Warrior in the queue in our capital, won't those hammer go into an Axe?

rrau, you're right, the chop doesn't speed up the worker now that we have the copper mine. So the chop would really be for the settler's benefit.

That's OK, if it speeds the settler that's all the better.

 

[ShannonCT]

I think you have the priorities straight. We need an Axe headed for Shaka asap and we need our second city up and running.

If we hold the Warrior in the queue in our capital, won't those hammer go into an Axe?

The warrior in the queue becomes a spear when copper is hooked. I'll try to work out a new sequence where we complete the warrior in the capital and only build one warrior in PH city. Maybe we can execute Killer's road building plan and build (chop?) the axe in PH city when copper is hooked. If the capital can skip the axe and get the library built earlier, it will benefit our tech rate, even if we're not quite at Pop6 yet.

I'll work on it today.

 

[leif erikson]

I'll work on it today.

When I was playing around, I couldn't help but notice that once we declare on Shaka, his territory becomes a beehive for activity of military units.

I think this serves us well in some respects as he must support them and he should fall behind in tech. If we can keep him metal-less and buzzing, it looks to me like this is to our advantage.

 

[killercane]

The warrior in the queue becomes a spear when copper is hooked. I'll try to work out a new sequence where we complete the warrior in the capital and only build one warrior in PH city. Maybe we can execute Killer's road building plan and build (chop?) the axe in PH city when copper is hooked. If the capital can skip the axe and get the library built earlier, it will benefit our tech rate, even if we're not quite at Pop6 yet.

I'll work on it today.

Well in all things follow KISS Principle I think. Either the worker from PH or the one from gold (really we dont need gold just yet either but what to do with him?) can get back and make full use of movement.

Do we need to make use of queue swap with the settler? We can just prechop the grassforest (SW) and plains forest (w of SW!) and keep growing until 4 and its the same difference right?

 

[ShannonCT]

OK, I worked out a new worker and city plan. Please refer to the map for tile numbers:

Proposed turns 29-46

29) Begin Wheel. Worker 1 chops tile 1.

30) Worker 1 chops tile 1.

31) Worker 1 finishes chop of tile 1. Net fish but do not work yet. (Watch the city governor here!)

32) Capital worker->settler. Worker 1 to tile 3. Worker 2 to tile 2.

33) Capital queue swap settler back to warrior. Work fish instead of copper. Worker 1 chops tile 3. Worker 2 chops tile 2.

34) Wheel->Writing. Continue both chops.

35) Capital warrior->settler. Finish both chops.

36) Capital queue swap settler to workboat. Worker 2 to tile 4. Worker 1 roads tile 3.

37) Capital queue swap workboat to settler (settler should complete with no hammers left over next turn by working fish, but if I miscounted, use copper). Worker 2 roads tile 4. Worker 1 roads tile 3.

38) Capital settler->workboat. Worker 2 finishes road on tile 4. Then, worker 1 to tile 5. Settler to tile 6.

39) PH city founded on tile 6, works 1f2h tile, and starts warrior. Worker 1 roads tile 5. Worker 2 to tile 8.

40) Pop4 in capital, work copper. Worker 1 roads tile 5. Worker 2 roads tile 8.

41) Worker 2 roads tile 8. Then, worker 1 to tile 8 and begin elephant camp. Writing should complete next turn @90%, but if not, up research to 100%.

42) Writing->Math. Capital workboat->library. Net clams. Both workers work on elephant camp. Open borders with Shaka and send in warrior and scout.

43) PH City warrior->workboat. Worker 1 finishes camp, switch citizen to ivory. Worker 2 to tile 7 and prebuild road for 1 turn, if no animals around.

44) PH City borders expand. Worker 1 to tile 7 and both workers start cow pasture.

45) Capital Pop5, work clams. Workers finish cow pasture. PH City works cows. Library should complete next turn. If so, turn research to 0% for 1 turn.

46) Capital library->workboat. Turn research to 100%. Worker 1 finishes road on cows. Then worker 2 goes to copper.


Only glitches could be if one of the three intended forests gets burned in a forest fire, or if one of the roads get washed out. But the chances of these events are low and there should be ways to change the plan if it happens. And since we wont be in Slavery, slave revolt can't happen.

We should be ready to chop an axe at turn 48 or later in PH city. And capital will grow to Pop6 on turn 49.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Excellent plan, especially the clear presentation . . . represents a great deal of effort, SCT.

rrau, you'll certainly have to micromanage this turn set, especially when you need to change the city build to settler to get him the hammers from a chop. I put my workers on 'skip' at the end of turns as a precaution when I'm manipulating the hammers like this.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice work SCT!

I ran the sequence a couple of times this morning. The only difference I found was that Pop grows to 4 in the capital on turn 40. The sequence still works out the same for what you worked out, grow to size 5 on turn 45 and 6 on turn 49.

For rrau, if you are trying to get better at MM, as I am, it is very beneficial to "cancel last mission" for the workers at the end of each turn. (The red circle with the line through it at the bottom of the unit menu) In my first run through, I missed one step because I moved Worker 1 before Worker 2 had completed the road. Worker 2 completed the road immediately after I moved Worker 1.

If you wish to play through turn 42, the completion of Writing, that would be fine. Good Luck.

 

[leif erikson]

I did some thinking over breakfast!

Perhaps it would be best if rrau plays through turn 45. The reason for this is that that would give her 3 turns of Open Borders to send the Scout and Warrior into Shaka's territory for recon. Then, before the next turn set, we have time to prepare the maps and play test the next phase, deciding whether a worker steal or a quick strike on Shaka is doable. This would not necessitate the break up of the next turn set?

 

[killercane]

Nice work Shannon, very clear presentation!

I dont see why we chop Tile 2 if that means we delay settling on the same turn. Why not put both workers on Tile 3? The wasted worker turn from moving on the forest? I would rather have city #2 founded on the same turn than worry about the lost worker turns as those are not for a finite purpose (ie, we are trying to build something requiring x number of worker turns in specific order).

I like the using Tile 4 for the chop and road, as it is superior to plains forest in that we can then move and mine it easier.

 

[ShannonCT]

Nice work SCT!

I ran the sequence a couple of times this morning. The only difference I found was that Pop grows to 4 in the capital on turn 40.

Fixed.

In my first run through, I missed one step because I moved Worker 1 before Worker 2 had completed the road. Worker 2 completed the road immediately after I moved Worker 1.

I bolded the tricky parts.

I did some thinking over breakfast!

Perhaps it would be best if rrau plays through turn 45. The reason for this is that that would give her 3 turns of Open Borders to send the Scout and Warrior into Shaka's territory for recon. Then, before the next turn set, we have time to prepare the maps and play test the next phase, deciding whether a worker steal or a quick strike on Shaka is doable. This would not necessitate the break up of the next turn set?

Yes, sounds good. She can move warrior and scout on turns 42, 43, 44, and 45, for 4 turns of recon. Try to maximize the ground covered in these 4 turns. Also, turn 45 is a good place to stop because there should be an option at that point to work 5 tiles and grow to Pop6 in 3 turns, or hire 1 scientist and grow to Pop6 in 4 turns, sacraficing hammers for an earlier academy.

I dont see why we chop Tile 2 if that means we delay settling on the same turn. Why not put both workers on Tile 3? The wasted worker turn from moving on the forest? I would rather have city #2 founded on the same turn than worry about the lost worker turns as those are not for a finite purpose (ie, we are trying to build something requiring x number of worker turns in specific order).

If I understand this correctly, both workers would chop tile 3 for 1 turn, with one of them finishing it on turn 34 and one moving to tile 4. Both would build roads on tiles 3 and 4, then both move to tile 6 to build a road on turn 38. Settler would be completed on turn 38 and settle. If this is what you mean, I guess the cost here is that since we chopped one less forest into the settler, we couldn't queue swap as much, and population growth gets delayed. This in turn delays the academy. Addionally, the wasted worker turns means having to decide between chopping the library to get it on the same turn as I did, and getting the ivory camped in time for Pop5 in the capital, and getting the cows pastured the turn after PH City's border expand. But maybe I'm missing something.

If you have time, could you compare the results of your plan to the results of mine, especially:

1) Library build date
2) Capital growth to Pop4, 5, and 6
3) PH City growth to Pop2
4) Expected academy build date

 

[Cactus Pete]

I'm good for rrau to go to 45.

 

[rrau]

Getting ready to start.....Will probably start playing in 30 min, so any last minute suggestions need to come now.

 

[killercane]

Well yeah let me get at it and show what I have. So I would say dont play yet, I really dont want to give up 4 hammers and a food by not settling same turn!

 

[leif erikson]

Getting ready to start.....Will probably start playing in 30 min, so any last minute suggestions need to come now.

Good luck!

I'm looking forward to seeing what assets Shaka has to work with...

Should you find yourself in a position to steal a Worker, or two, perhaps you should take a break and post? Or shall we just steal them and

 

[rrau]

I'll wait on Killer's plan and see how that compares.