ShannonCT
Deity
The power jump only amounts to 3 axemen. If all goes well, we should have ~115 in power by turn 85.
SGOTM 08 - XTeam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
The power jump only amounts to 3 axemen. If all goes well, we should have ~115 in power by turn 85.
ShannonCT
Deity
I think if you try to:
Switch worker to wb, use copper, cow, gold; switch to worker when chop comes in and use fish instead of copper at that time, and switch to workboat next turn and use clams to get to size 4 at turn 35 you come out best. I think that is the sequence. Using fish and clams for more turns minimizes gold loss on those turns but you can recoup the gold by working them extra at size 4 earlier. I have been trying to comment for a few hours now but keep getting distracted so sorry for the delay.
I'm still confused a bit. Switching to fish on the turn we switch back to the worker doesn't do any good, does it? Since food gets converted to hammers for the worker build, fish just gives fewer overflow hammers than copper the next turn. Surplus food converted to hammers on turn n overflow as extra hammers on turn n+1, not extra food.
I wonder if you can play a practice game through turn 50 and post the end results, so we can compare them to my two proposed plans and see if there's something better for rrau's turnset tomorrow.
killercane
Deity
Everyone is worried about commerce and the CoL bottleneck. If that is the most important, use the fish rather than copper and you still get wb on time. Hammers in worker conversion dont matter here as they switch back to normal on the overflow into wb.
ShannonCT
Deity
KC, will you sign off on the revised plan from Post #292?
As far as I can tell, the only way to get Pop4 on turn 35 is to work an unimproved tile for 3 turns. If that's the case, it's better to get to Pop4 one turn later and be working improved tiles the whole time.
As far as I can tell, the only way to get Pop4 on turn 35 is to work an unimproved tile for 3 turns. If that's the case, it's better to get to Pop4 one turn later and be working improved tiles the whole time.
killercane
Deity
Well I would have signed off in the first place but wanted to look at it a bit and I finally found time to take screenshots and such so that we can make a more informed decision.
You just take off the gold for one turn (-5 gold) and work clams.
Turn plan for turns 29-46:
29) Begin Wheel. Capital queue swap worker to workboat. Worker 1 chops tile 1.
30) Worker 1 chops tile 1.
31) Net fish. Capital queue swap workboat to worker. Capital still works cows, gold, and copper. Worker 1 finishes chop of tile 1.
32) Capital worker->workboat. Capital works fish instead of copper. Workers 1 and 2 to tile 3. Instead, keep working gold, cow, copper.
33) Worker 1 prechops tile 3 for 1 turn. Worker 2 to tile 4.
34) Wheel->Writing. Capital produces workboat->warrior. Net clams. Worker 1 roads tile 3. Worker 2 roads tile 4. Work Clams, Cow, Fish for growth in 1.
35) Capital Pop 4, queue swap warrior to Settler if warrior not produced. Worker 1 roads tile 3. Worker 2 roads tile 4. Use copper, fish, cow, gold.
36) Work cow, gold, fish, copper. Worker 1 chops tile 3. Worker 2 to tile 6.
37) Worker 1 and Worker chop the rest of their forests (3 & 4 I think).
38) Same.
39) Workers 1 and 2 go find jobs elsewhere. Capital settler->workboat or rax, working clams, gold, cow, fish.
40) City 2 founded.
Start library when writing if founded in the capital.
Now if you work clams at size 4 rather than copper, you get +8 commerce, the settler is produced a turn later, but you have a road on the plains hill so it is settled the same turn. This would make up for the lost commerce from the 1 turn working clams rather than gold, and just result in loss of hammers into warrior, workboat, or rax (not really important).
Attachments
ShannonCT
Deity
OK, not sure how I was missing that. 
I can revise the plan this evening. Or rrau can do it if she has time. Gotta go to work now.
Still think we should settle PH on 40.
I can revise the plan this evening. Or rrau can do it if she has time. Gotta go to work now.
Still think we should settle PH on 40.
"Still think we should settle PH on 40." That's confusing -- looks like we are settling on 40, going by the latest plan above.
ShannonCT
Deity
It was in response to the last paragraph.
ShannonCT
Deity
Sorry to be late. I'm fine with rrau going ahead. Don't let the game's default options mess up all kc's, and SCT's hard work.
So far everything according to plan except a jaguar attack on our scout on turn 30.
Opportunity knocks....
I plan to worker steal if it's still there next turn. (Shaka adopted slavery the turn before and sent a worker to chop a forest.....Maybe he doesn't have metals?)
Question is do I pop the hut? (scout just finished healing and was going to have to head back to get there for open borders, but now we won't be able to get open borders.......with a war and all...... so pop it and be late to scout through Shaka's territory or leave it and maybe give Shaka time to make offensive units to kill it as we try to scout his territory while at war?)
Opportunity knocks....
I plan to worker steal if it's still there next turn. (Shaka adopted slavery the turn before and sent a worker to chop a forest.....Maybe he doesn't have metals?)
Question is do I pop the hut? (scout just finished healing and was going to have to head back to get there for open borders, but now we won't be able to get open borders.......with a war and all...... so pop it and be late to scout through Shaka's territory or leave it and maybe give Shaka time to make offensive units to kill it as we try to scout his territory while at war?)
OK, sounds good to me. Is there any reason not to?
Popping the hut might provide us with some additional Gold to maintain 100% research up to CoL's. Besides, if we steal the Worker, doesn't that make Open Borders a non-issue?
No reason not to pop the hut, and I'd suggest the scout continue to scout west . . . unless, the worker has four or five turns left on his chop and the scout could get there in time to help protect the worker.
My inclination is that the screen shot is well named, and we indeed have an unexpected early opportunity to steal a worker; however, there are reasons to hesitate -- among them, the possibility that our warrior (and the worker) will be attacked and lost on the following turn and the further possibility that Shaka will launch an attack, thereby foiling our best laid plans to get the Oracle. Be good to prevent the forest from being chopped for Shaka's immediate purposes, most likely to build another unit or possibly a settler to settle a copper city.
There is considerable information available that I don't have:
1. How many turns has the worker been chopping? (The longer we wait, the longer we can continue to develop in peace, and the hut might even yield another warrior; of course, Shaka may see our warrior and send a unit to protect his worker. Anyone have a feel for how likely this is in Bts?)
2. Those who have played so many test games: How many archers (and workers and settlers) is Shaka likely to have at this point, assuming he doesn't have copper in his fat cross? In particular, how likely is it that he has a third archer in his capital?
3. If Shaka does have copper in his fat cross, would he have it hooked up yet? If so, how many UU's is he likely to have?
4. If Shaka has copper avalible outside his fat cross, how far along is he likely to be in hooking it up?
Also, like to hear opinions as to the downside of not taking advantage of the opportunity and the likelyhood of another opportunity knocking after the Oracle is assured and our copper connected.
My inclination is that the screen shot is well named, and we indeed have an unexpected early opportunity to steal a worker; however, there are reasons to hesitate -- among them, the possibility that our warrior (and the worker) will be attacked and lost on the following turn and the further possibility that Shaka will launch an attack, thereby foiling our best laid plans to get the Oracle. Be good to prevent the forest from being chopped for Shaka's immediate purposes, most likely to build another unit or possibly a settler to settle a copper city.
There is considerable information available that I don't have:
1. How many turns has the worker been chopping? (The longer we wait, the longer we can continue to develop in peace, and the hut might even yield another warrior; of course, Shaka may see our warrior and send a unit to protect his worker. Anyone have a feel for how likely this is in Bts?)
2. Those who have played so many test games: How many archers (and workers and settlers) is Shaka likely to have at this point, assuming he doesn't have copper in his fat cross? In particular, how likely is it that he has a third archer in his capital?
3. If Shaka does have copper in his fat cross, would he have it hooked up yet? If so, how many UU's is he likely to have?
4. If Shaka has copper avalible outside his fat cross, how far along is he likely to be in hooking it up?
Also, like to hear opinions as to the downside of not taking advantage of the opportunity and the likelyhood of another opportunity knocking after the Oracle is assured and our copper connected.
Good point. This goes to the question of how many units Shaka is likely to have already built. Nonetheless, it's hard to argue that we shouldn't take one turn to pop the hut. Continuing to explore west might be put off, if there is likely to be a soon-to-close window allowing the scout to venture across Zulu territory, but I'm thinking he is almost certain to have at least a third archer.
We need to pause here.
ShannonCT
Deity
Popping the hut might give us another scout or warrior and give us more options as far as exploring or escorting the worker back home. I think rrau should pop the hut before we get too far into the discussion here.
On turn 38 in the practice game, Shaka is getting ready to found his second city next to copper, and his worker is building a road toward it. And he has only 2 archers at that point, one for capital and one for the settler. If in the real game, Shaka is chopping a forest with his worker, may this suggest that he doesn't have his eye on copper for his second city?
I think this is a good suggestion. At least we will know what we have to work with.
It looks like the Worker is on a Forest Hill, best defensive terrain for the Warrior. rrau wrote that Shaka had change his civics to Slavery the turn before, this Worker may have had orders that pre-dates the discovery of Bronze Working? He could disappear on a new mission?
I remember that it took a while before he built another Archer, unless I stole his worker! I found Axes to be quite effective against Impi. However, having to build Axes does throw off the road to Oracle and Bureaucracy. Having our second city up and running quickly would allow the capital to work on wonders. That means important to get Cow pastured and hills mined.
Shaka's Worker could be used to build a road back to our cities. What about escort?
What do you think the likelyhood is that he is late to BW because he researched fishing?
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