Nobody suggested using priests rather than workshops . It was suggested that Ulundi needs specialists (it does of course need many!), and for lack of ability to run engineers, priests are the next best thing and can run 4 while still putting out a decent hpt to build some more things.
I may have done it wrong but when I made the calculation, I halved the number of hammers needed for any wonder that we had the resources for. So the 10,575 number should take into account resource bonuses.
OK, I didn't read your post carefully enough. Anyway, 10575 still doesn't include bonuses from forges, Bureaucracy, or OR. The exact numbers aren't important. The point I wanted to make was that once we convert to a full hammer economy, the total hammers we need for the wonders wont be hard to come by. The more interesting questions will be what should our final tech be to maximize W(t)/t, and how do we coordinate victory with building our final wonders?
It seems to me, for resource bonus, the game takes the number of base hammers per turn and multiplies it by the bonus. So, if you need marble, the base hammers are doubled and then the multipliers are added?
All of the mulipliers are additive. So if a X-ville is making 40 base hammers and is building Zeus, it could get +100% for ivory, +50% for Bureaucracy, +25% for forge, +25% for OR, and +10% for State Property. 40 base hammers become 40*3.1 = 124 hammers. Or if X-ville was making 50 base hammers and building the UN (1000 hammers), it could get a +110% bonus maximum and make 105 hammers per turn. The UN would be done in 10 turns (8 in a golden age). This sort of calculation is more important than total hammers calculation because it determines when we want to stop teching and end the game.
Set some cities to grow and change galley at pigville. Settle Furville. Move worker to road under stack at Jute.
Cancel fish with Joao and get 4 gpt back. Sell him HBR for 50 gold.
Turn 134
Attack Jute. Cat loses, all the other units lose as well:
Ballista at 85%
CR3 axe at 70%
CR2 axe at 83.3%
Move worker on down to Furville. Move spear between furville and Jute. Move fish boat to get fish at furville upon border expansion.
Metalcasting attempt fails. Put Ulundi on growth and a temple.
Move scout to replace axe in the NW.
Research MC in 1 turn.
Turn 135
MC in, Ulundi->Forge.
Moving galleys back towards home territory.
Research to Machinery in 2.
Stoneville to trireme. Scout is on its way there.
Settle scientists in Xville.
Ouch, the RNG was unkind to you KC. I guess if we had to pick a time to be unlucky, this was as good as any. I hope the barbs will grow the city for us while we build an army to retake it.
Since our spy was captured, we'll need 1 or 2 more soon to return to Braga and attempt to steal Philo.
Also, your report didn't mention converting back to CS/Pacifism. We should do that soon if you haven't already.
OK, I didn't read your post carefully enough. Anyway, 10575 still doesn't include bonuses from forges, Bureaucracy, or OR. The exact numbers aren't important. The point I wanted to make was that once we convert to a full hammer economy, the total hammers we need for the wonders wont be hard to come by. The more interesting questions will be what should our final tech be to maximize W(t)/t, and how do we coordinate victory with building our final wonders?
All of the mulipliers are additive. So if a X-ville is making 40 base hammers and is building Zeus, it could get +100% for ivory, +50% for Bureaucracy, +25% for forge, +25% for OR, and +10% for State Property. 40 base hammers become 40*3.1 = 124 hammers. Or if X-ville was making 50 base hammers and building the UN (1000 hammers), it could get a +110% bonus maximum and make 105 hammers per turn. The UN would be done in 10 turns (8 in a golden age). This sort of calculation is more important than total hammers calculation because it determines when we want to stop teching and end the game.
Its nothin' but bad news for the home team. To add to the pain of the failed Assault on Jute Hill, and the slaying of Sury Bond the Spy in Portugal, the esteemed leader forgot to switch civics to Caste and Pacifism. I am torn on whether to do that now or not, and rather disgusted that I did not. Sorry guys.
Spoiler:
Turn 133, 450 AD: Yasodharapura has been founded.
Turn 133, 450 AD: You have discovered Compass!
Turn 133, 450 AD: The Mahabodhi has been built in a far away land!
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Catapult (5.00) vs Barbarian'sArcher (6.75)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Combat Odds: 26.2%
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Catapult is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Catapult is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Catapult is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Catapult is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Catapult is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Suryavarman II's Catapult!
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant (8.00) vs Barbarian'sArcher (5.94)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Combat Odds: 83.3%
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (66/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (44/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (22/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Suryavarman II's Ballista Elephant!
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman (5.00) vs Barbarian'sArcher (3.96)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Combat Odds: 70.6%
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (67/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (46/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (25/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Suryavarman II's Axeman!
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman (5.00) vs Barbarian'sArcher (3.56)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Combat Odds: 85.0%
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (45/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 21 (24/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Suryavarman II's Axeman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 134, 475 AD: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Suryavarman II's Axeman!
Turn 134, 475 AD: You have discovered Metal Casting!
T135: We are researching too fast to get the trireme in Stoneville, so I whip the trireme (this was what I was waiting for on the civics switch, and that is what made the delay )
We take up the next turns:
Turn 136, 520 AD: You have discovered Machinery!
Turn 136, 520 AD: You have trained a Trireme in Stoneville. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 136, 520 AD: The Statue of Zeus has been built in a far away land!
Trireme to outskirts of culture for upgrade. Units from Ivoryville towards Jute again. Joao has mono, will wait to see if he has some more gold to trade.
Optics in 1 turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: You have discovered Monotheism! from Joao with 30 gold for aesthetics.
Turn 137, 540 AD: You have discovered Optics!
Turn 137, 540 AD: The borders of Yasodharapura have expanded!
Upgrade the trireme at Stoneville and add in the scout. We will take 2 turns to get him unloaded at the hut/
Turn 138, 560 AD: You have discovered Drama!
Turn 138, 560 AD: Suryavarman II's Golden Age has ended...
Philosophy is a 1 turn research so we take it rather than build a spy who will not get to Joao in time.
Turn 139, 580 AD: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 139, 580 AD: Joao II adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 139, 580 AD: Suryavarman II's Caravel has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 140, 600 AD: The villagers give you gold! You have received 39 gold!
Turn 140, 600 AD: You have constructed a Forge in Ulundi. Work has now begun on a Confucian Temple.
Turn 140, 600 AD: The Hanging Gardens has been built in a far away land!
Turn 140, 600 AD: St. Patrick (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!
We get gold from the hut. No astro, and it will take 6 turns since we are out of gold.
Turn 142, 640 AD: The Church of the Nativity has been built in a far away land!
Turn 142, 640 AD: Nicolaus Copernicus (Great Scientist) has been born in Guimarães (Joao II)!
Turn 143, 660 AD: Our spiritual leaders are urging us to seek the blessings of the sea! The wise masters have divined the way regarding our relationship with the sea. They urge us to embrace the sea, to broaden our influence over it and spread our traditions to new lands.
Turn 143, 660 AD: The Blessed Sea You are tasked by your religious leaders to found cities on new landmasses. If you can build enough cities on new landmasses you will please the masters, who will offer you a choice of rewards. To complete this quest, you must establish or capture cities on 10 total landmasses of any size, from one-plot islands to massive continents. All landmasses where you have at least one city are counted. Note that additional cities on the same island or continent do not help in this quest. The goal is to establish your presence on a number of different landmasses and thereby prove your mastery over the waters. You will fail this quest if you change state religions, cease to have a state religion or reach Industrialism without having met the conditions.
Turn 143, 660 AD: The borders of Stoneville have expanded!
Turn 143, 660 AD: Michiel de Ruyter (Great General) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 143, 660 AD: Jeanne d'Arc (Great General) has been born in a far away land!
The AIs are fighting on the other continent . I am building Colossus in Xville to complete right before Astro so we dont have to worry about taking it later.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ? for Canal-ville.
I turn Stoneville to wealth as I dont know what to build there. Ivoryville needs to fire the scientist that it got on growth.
Xville completes Colossus in two turns, no way to speed it up w/o using citizens. Astro shows 4 turns but really it is 3.
Ulundi has a scientist due next turn at 76%.
What to do about the lack of pacifism and CS? We could revolt now, but we have another golden age coming up within 10-12 turns when we build Taj at Furville (need to check on the hammer output there). We coudl build wealth several places to speed up our research. I hate to do it at Xville when it needs to build units in light of the disastrous RNG at Jute.
One thing we can do is whip 2 workers with one whip at Furville in 4 turns. With the 2 down there, and the 3 workers who just finished up at Ivoryville, we will have 7 to chop out Taj. Nationalism is due in 6 turns @70% (wealth?) after Astro (3), so we can start the golden age on T154. Gunpowder should take 4 turns and MT should take another 5-6?
So really not too bad. We can grow our cities in these ten turns. The only thing we lose is some GPPs and merchants, but we do gain some hammers throughout the empire. Stoneville could whip a galley or unit as well to give it something to do.
With Church of the Nativity built, we now only need 2 priests. One for Taoism in Protugal and one for Islam. This kind of mitigates against Wat in Ulundi as that contaminates things there, and surely we can get two priests from Xville? So can we take Ulundi and make 2 scientists there in addition to the priest and engineer, and use the gold from Xville completing Wat rather than Ulundi for research?
Also on the Wonder screen, SoZ was built in the double shrine capital that has stonehenge.
Buddhist shrine is in another town. Great Wall is in another. Church of Nat. is in yet another, but could be great wall town or the place with Hanging Gardens.
I think I see some wonders being built by someone?
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Curious why the Galley that was down near Evora sailed home instead of checking out the SW passage?
How do you know the other civs are fighting?
Wonder tracking:
Two religious shrines (Hinduism and Judaism), Stonehenge and Statue of Zeus in one city.
Buddhist shrine in another.
Christian shrine in another.
Hanging Gardens somewhere?
Great Wall somewhere?
One thing we can do is whip 2 workers with one whip at Furville in 4 turns. With the 2 down there, and the 3 workers who just finished up at Ivoryville, we will have 7 to chop out Taj. Nationalism is due in 6 turns @70% (wealth?) after Astro (3), so we can start the golden age on T154. Gunpowder should take 4 turns and MT should take another 5-6?
So really not too bad. We can grow our cities in these ten turns. The only thing we lose is some GPPs and merchants, but we do gain some hammers throughout the empire. Stoneville could whip a galley or unit as well to give it something to do.
We need to be in CS and Pacifism now. We've already lost out on 1 GP by not using Ulundi as a proper GP farm. If we revolt now, Ulundi can have 6 scientists and an engineer next turn and stop building useless stuff. Marbleville can begin running 5 merchants (later 7) and get our economy to a point where it can sustain 60-70% research. Stoneville should be running merchants or using the mines to build wealth. Canalville should be running merchants, not scientists. We maximize beakers by getting the tech rate higher and letting X-ville's bonuses work.
Waiting for Taj to switch would be a big mistake IMO. Another 10 turns of civics with very marginal value is unacceptable. Rushing Taj is also a poor use of it. We should finish Taj when we have about twice as many cities as we have now.
Why do we only have 1 caravel and why did the western galley not continue exploring the western passage? X-ville could have been producing a caravel instead of a wonder that will be obsolete 2 turns after finishing it.
Since we have so many units in the west right now going after Jute, should we just continue on to Portugal. We're nowhere close to fielding an army to fill the 4 galleys waiting on our east coast. Horseville is ready to produce units and we shouldn't need a lot to take on Joao. I notice that 5 of his cities have courthouses now.
We need to be in CS and Pacifism now. Yes, indeed. We've already lost out on 1 GP by not using Ulundi as a proper GP farm. If we revolt now, Ulundi can have 6 scientists and an engineer next turn and stop building useless stuff. Marbleville can begin running 5 merchants (later 7) and get our economy to a point where it can sustain 60-70% research. I'm tempted to put all of Marbleville's GPs on ocean tiles for two turns, thereby adding 1 pop, then back to merchants. Stoneville should be running merchants or using the mines to build wealth. Here, we could stay as we are for one turn, then put one of the ocean citizens on the stone and complete a harbor in just four more turns, then run merchants or mine wealth -- think we'd benefit more long term that way.Canalville should be running merchants, not scientists. Yes, and if we put one citizen on the mined hill, we get the Parthenon in 9 turns instead of 14.We maximize beakers by getting the tech rate higher and letting X-ville's bonuses work. Yes.
Waiting for Taj to switch would be a big mistake IMO. IMO too. Another 10 turns of civics with very marginal value is unacceptable. Rushing Taj is also a poor use of it. We should finish Taj when we have about twice as many cities as we have now. Concur.
Why do we only have 1 caravel and why did the western galley not continue exploring the western passage?Really disappointed about this. We might have much valuable knowledge and tech/gold trades by now. X-ville could have been producing a caravel (too late?) instead of a wonder that will be obsolete 2 turns after finishing it.
Since we have so many units in the west right now going after Jute, should we just continue on to Portugal. We're nowhere close to fielding an army to fill the 4 galleys waiting on our east coast. Missed the boats, so to speak . . . Agree, probably better in our continuing state of ignorance to concentrate on Portugal. Horseville is ready to produce units and we shouldn't need a lot to take on Joao. Suggest maces rather than mounted units (except where we have a stable), as they will earn promotion to CR2 and be much more helpful against the intercontinental AI. I notice that 5 of his cities have courthouses now.
We need to be in CS and Pacifism now. We've already lost out on 1 GP by not using Ulundi as a proper GP farm. If we revolt now, Ulundi can have 6 scientists and an engineer next turn and stop building useless stuff. Marbleville can begin running 5 merchants (later 7) and get our economy to a point where it can sustain 60-70% research. Stoneville should be running merchants or using the mines to build wealth. Canalville should be running merchants, not scientists. We maximize beakers by getting the tech rate higher and letting X-ville's bonuses work.
Waiting for Taj to switch would be a big mistake IMO. Another 10 turns of civics with very marginal value is unacceptable. Rushing Taj is also a poor use of it. We should finish Taj when we have about twice as many cities as we have now.
Why do we only have 1 caravel and why did the western galley not continue exploring the western passage? X-ville could have been producing a caravel instead of a wonder that will be obsolete 2 turns after finishing it.
Since we have so many units in the west right now going after Jute, should we just continue on to Portugal. We're nowhere close to fielding an army to fill the 4 galleys waiting on our east coast. Horseville is ready to produce units and we shouldn't need a lot to take on Joao. I notice that 5 of his cities have courthouses now.
Xville is making COlossus to save us from having to find and take it later. It only takes 4 turns. By the time we built a caravel we have Astronomy so I upgrade the western galley everyone is complaining about and it overtakes where the galley would be (as a galleon) within 10 turns.
Well, lets switch civics now.
Blessed Sea
Our best reward is to get a free great prophet. This mitigates against building Angkor Wat AT ALL since Wat will enhance our chance to get too many Prophets in the capital, and the capital will get 2-3 more GPeople.
Blessed Sea
Our best reward is to get a free great prophet. This mitigates against building Angkor Wat AT ALL since Wat will enhance our chance to get too many Prophets in the capital, and the capital will get 2-3 more GPeople.
Is that reward automatically a choice, or do we have to control a certain wonder?
This doesn't sound like a quest we should be pursuing right now. We have cities on 3 landmasses. We'll probably capture more cities on another 1-2 landmasses. If we are 1 Prophet short near the end of the game, we can spam some settlers and settle on the nearby islands. The quest only expires with the Industrialism tech.
Is that reward automatically a choice, or do we have to control a certain wonder?
This doesn't sound like a quest we should be pursuing right now. We have cities on 3 landmasses. We'll probably capture more cities on another 1-2 landmasses. If we are 1 Prophet short near the end of the game, we can spam some settlers and settle on the nearby islands. The quest only expires with the Industrialism tech.
You get: 5 cities receive temples or convert 20 cities to state religion for free or the prophet. An argument can be made for the converting 20 cities (+20 gold), once we have that many.
Waiting for Taj to switch would be a big mistake IMO. Another 10 turns of civics with very marginal value is unacceptable. Rushing Taj is also a poor use of it. We should finish Taj when we have about twice as many cities as we have now.
Since we have so many units in the west right now going after Jute, should we just continue on to Portugal. We're nowhere close to fielding an army to fill the 4 galleys waiting on our east coast. Horseville is ready to produce units and we shouldn't need a lot to take on Joao. I notice that 5 of his cities have courthouses now.
Perhaps we should move the Galleys to Horseville, for upgrade to Galleons, and then ferry a force into the heart of Portugese territory, aiming for Oporto, Lisbon and Guimaraes.
Should we keep all his cities or are there some we can raze? Perhaps Santarem?
I agree with this. A nice thing to keep in our back pocket in case we need it? Does it expire if a rival civ accomplishes the feat before us?
I no longer see the GH south of Stoneville?
Seem like we should load the Scout onto the Caravel and send it full speed ahead northeast by east. We need to find trading partners to refill our coffers for research and upgrade. We also need to figure out the lay of the land, and soon!
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. It was suggested that Ulundi needs specialists (it does of course need many!), and for lack of ability to run engineers, priests are the next best thing and can run 4 while still putting out a decent hpt to build some more things.
)
. I am building Colossus in Xville to complete right before Astro so we dont have to worry about taking it later.
