I was thinking of splitting forces and attacking at the same time......But that only works if we take 3 turns to road the second tile....Which could let archers in santarem be upgraded to LB. Just not sure we have the troops in place to start a war now.
SGOTM 08 - XTeam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I've got a busy day today but will try to get a first draft of a plan up by late tonight. Soliciting advice now and especially tomorrow morning and early afternoon.
Tomorrow afternoon is free, and I will try to get a revised, and no doubt better organized, plan posted by early evening, with the hope of beginning play Monday evening. Again, hope you will all be able to give me some feedback.
Afraid longbows will be built quickly, and it seems very unlikely that we would be able to get enough units to Braga before facing a few of them (and extremely unlikely that we would be able to bombard before attacking archers), so thinking best to attack Santarem pretty soon. However, I may try to get a cat and el out ahead to begin bombardment early.
Will look to trade marble and furs now, even before a reserve is connected.
Tomorrow afternoon is free, and I will try to get a revised, and no doubt better organized, plan posted by early evening, with the hope of beginning play Monday evening. Again, hope you will all be able to give me some feedback.
Afraid longbows will be built quickly, and it seems very unlikely that we would be able to get enough units to Braga before facing a few of them (and extremely unlikely that we would be able to bombard before attacking archers), so thinking best to attack Santarem pretty soon. However, I may try to get a cat and el out ahead to begin bombardment early.
Will look to trade marble and furs now, even before a reserve is connected.
ShannonCT
Deity
CP, remember that the spy's mission is to support revolt in Braga to avoid the need to bombard. Unless he's caught, he should be able to afford it by the time we have units in place.
Not sure how Joao will quickly upgrade LB's. He has no Gold and no GPT. He doesn't know anyone except us, so he can't trade for Gold either. Right now, we have traded for 4 gpt of his, declaring will return that to him to use for upgrades.
I'm starting to think that rrau's idea of getting a significant force past Santarem isn't a bad thought.
Should we move the two Galleons we have in the south, near Marbleville and south of, what should be, Furville through the canal at Horseville to use for rapid reinforcement?
Looks like we can trade Marble to Augustus for Sugar plus 3 gpt.
Trade Furs to Charlemagne for Dyes.
Agree with SCT that we can trade a Compass or Music to Gandhi for his 50 Gold.
ShannonCT
Deity
A couple things to remember: AIs get a 80% discount on unit upgrades at this level. So each archer->LB upgrade costs 15 gold; and AI don't always their gold available for trade (and when they do, it's only 10% of their gold and gpt). So expect Joao to upgrade all of his archers to LBs in the next few turns. If the archers in Santarem aren't upgraded IBT, we could kill them both next turn and leave only a chariot. Our HA could be teleported to protect our worker.
Sure, if we replace them soon. I hope we can start building up units to go overseas.
After X-Ville finishes the maceman, should we build an observatory or a stables?
Can Ulundi switch back to scientists next turn and hire a 7th specialist? We can starve at -1 food per turn for a good while. And when the mace is finished there, consider hiring an 8th scientist. Concerning the GP about to be born there, if a GM, send on a trade mission to Bibracte; if anything else, save. Future GSs should probably be saved for bulbing, as we are nearing the point where bulbing beats settling.
ShannonCT
Deity
Are you saying the AI has a secret reserve of Gold we don't see?
Cheeky?
Yes, the AI doesn't always make even 10% of its gold available. And even if Joao had 0 gold now, if each LB upgrade costs 15 gold, it wouldn't take long for him to upgrade all of his archers.
I couldn't get more than 6 specialists hired in Ulundi. Is that a hard limit?
ShannonCT
Deity
I opened the save and didn't have a problem hiring more than 6. Maybe it's a graphical issue. Try using the Specialists Stacker option in the options menu.
Appreciate all the input.
Will go ahead and attack Santarem next turn, unless longbows show up IBT, in which case I’ll have to wait for reinforcements, so there’s no chance for promotion and healing.
Anyone know how to predict where the archer near Jute will be teleported?
Will make the three trades leif has listed, including Music – hoping the Sistine Chapel will get built.
What about switching right now to a harbor in both Pigville and after cat in Canalville?
Went ahead and move the worker and found that Braga has only 20% culture. Does it still make sense to save the spy for another city?
What happened to the barb galley near Jute?
Stoneville: take citizen off forest and put on mine to get harbor in three turns. What to build next there?
More later.
Will go ahead and attack Santarem next turn, unless longbows show up IBT, in which case I’ll have to wait for reinforcements, so there’s no chance for promotion and healing.
Anyone know how to predict where the archer near Jute will be teleported?
Will make the three trades leif has listed, including Music – hoping the Sistine Chapel will get built.
What about switching right now to a harbor in both Pigville and after cat in Canalville?
Went ahead and move the worker and found that Braga has only 20% culture. Does it still make sense to save the spy for another city?
What happened to the barb galley near Jute?
Stoneville: take citizen off forest and put on mine to get harbor in three turns. What to build next there?
Okay, will save all GPs except GM.
More later.
ShannonCT
Deity
We can close borders with Joao this turn and position the spear in Jute to kill the archer next turn, with the HA as backup.
Not a bad idea. Harbors will make each trade route worth +1 coin.
We could use the spy against Oporto instead, if the spy stations there for 5 turns (must be 5 turns). Taking out Braga and Oporto quickly will take away Joao's iron.
The one west of Jute must have moved on toward Portugal. I notice our wounded galleon in the south that must have killed the other barb galley I mentioned.
Ships or a theater (for Globe later).
OK, more units there.
Theater or maybe Chichen (for cash when AI finishes it).
Unless there is a hammer multiplier that I've forgotten for Chichen, would opt for theater.
Gunpowder, MT, then what?
ShannonCT
Deity
5 turns is required if we dont want to spend any commerce on EPs, but you can do it earlier if you're ready to attack sooner.
Stone multiplies Chichen.
Printing Press for fast Radio OR
Engineering for trebuchets (and then Chem for frigates) OR
Divine Right if we're worried about Islam showing up in the wrong place.
Not sure.
Doesn't look good for trading for Engineering in the near future. We're at +5 with Augustus and +10 more doesn't seem doable in the near term. Looks like we'll be needing Trebs for any overseas adventure. Engineering will make unit movement faster too. How does this affect Great People strategy? Doesn't it make GScientists less effective?
Chemistry adds 1 hammer to Workshops, could be useful during the wonder build phase?
The one wonder the AI seems to be able to build is a religious shrine! Should we let them? Wish we knew who was researching what?
If we get a Scientist, should we bulb Printing Press?
Oh My, time for some
ShannonCT
Deity
Here's the Great Scientist bulb list:
Whatever tech path we take, I think we want to self-research PP and SM to delay the obsolesence of the GLib. There will be plenty of uses for GSs after SM, so best to save up as many as possible.
If we research Engineering and Chemistry after MT, the GS bulb preference would be PP, SM, Physics, Biology, Electricity. The potential drawback of this is that we might not be able to get Electricity fast enough to safely take Radio with Liberalism. (Currently, all AI are 4 techs from Liberalism, except Joao, who is 3 away.) Physics costs 3.5 GSs (and gives one back). Biology costs 3. Electricity costs 3.8. We could bulb most of our way through Physics and Bio, but that wouldn't leave much for Electricity. I'm not sure how close the AI will be to Liberalism at that point. If they are getting close, we could bulb Medicine instead of Radio, but that's worth ~2300 beakers fewer, and we might want to get started on the most expensive wonders (from Radio and MM) earlier.
The potential upside of having to go through Biology before Electricity is that we can't bulb Biology after Electricity, since Electricity opens up Fission. If the AI is slow to Education or Philosophy, we could continue to grow GSs for Electricity while researching other things (Medicine, Corporation).
Spoiler :
Whatever tech path we take, I think we want to self-research PP and SM to delay the obsolesence of the GLib. There will be plenty of uses for GSs after SM, so best to save up as many as possible.
If we research Engineering and Chemistry after MT, the GS bulb preference would be PP, SM, Physics, Biology, Electricity. The potential drawback of this is that we might not be able to get Electricity fast enough to safely take Radio with Liberalism. (Currently, all AI are 4 techs from Liberalism, except Joao, who is 3 away.) Physics costs 3.5 GSs (and gives one back). Biology costs 3. Electricity costs 3.8. We could bulb most of our way through Physics and Bio, but that wouldn't leave much for Electricity. I'm not sure how close the AI will be to Liberalism at that point. If they are getting close, we could bulb Medicine instead of Radio, but that's worth ~2300 beakers fewer, and we might want to get started on the most expensive wonders (from Radio and MM) earlier.
The potential upside of having to go through Biology before Electricity is that we can't bulb Biology after Electricity, since Electricity opens up Fission. If the AI is slow to Education or Philosophy, we could continue to grow GSs for Electricity while researching other things (Medicine, Corporation).
I'm inclined to take a chance on Islam, but PP vs Eng is tough and confounded by not having decided what victory condition we're going for. Also, there's been no mention of Steel and cannons, which I've found to be quite helpful. I've never used airships. Would they serve us well, and can we afford to wait on their availablility. Thinking I may pause for discussion after researching MT and we know a bit more.
"Whatever tech path we take, I think we want to self-research PP and SM to delay the obsolesence of the GLib. There will be plenty of uses for GSs after SM, so best to save up as many as possible.
If we research Engineering and Chemistry after MT, the GS bulb preference would be PP, SM, Physics, Biology, Electricity. " SCT, these two statements appear inconsistent. Please clarify.
I'm done for tonight, but hope to complete planning tomorrow afternoon.
ShannonCT
Deity
The second statement was to remind us of what the GSs could bulb, not what they should bulb.
I was thinking about victory conditions.
Is there anything in the XML that would help us to know how many cities, or what percentage of change in power, or some other factor that we need to achieve to convince an AI to become our Vassal?
I ask because it would seem that the info might help us to decide how big an army to build and who to strike with it. It might also assist us in deciding conquest/domination versus diplo (backdoor or otherwise). If there are different standards, if you will, needed to convince an AI, then it might also determine the order in which we strike them to gain their wonder cities.
Is there anything in the XML that would help us to know how many cities, or what percentage of change in power, or some other factor that we need to achieve to convince an AI to become our Vassal?
I ask because it would seem that the info might help us to decide how big an army to build and who to strike with it. It might also assist us in deciding conquest/domination versus diplo (backdoor or otherwise). If there are different standards, if you will, needed to convince an AI, then it might also determine the order in which we strike them to gain their wonder cities.
Similar threads
