SGOTM 08 - XTeam

[Frederiksberg]

Spies can perform a mission called "support city revolt" which removes cultural defenses for 1 turn. If we station a spy in Vijay soon and have him stationary for a few turns, we get a discount on this mission.

That might come in handy. Does this require that we turn up the espionage slider?

CP found out that if we station airships in a AI's city, the AI we are at war with can destroy those airship if we dont have a unit protecting them. So you'll have to use your judgement about how likely Gandhi is to destroy our airships if they are left unprotected.

OK. It looks like Gandhi doesn't have any 2-move units. Is that true? He does have access to horses - did he acquire those recently?

Airship attacks only need to happen on the same turn as the attack on the city happens. They can only take away 20% of a units hit points, and since a unit in a city gains all those HPs back in one turn, it does no good to use airship attacks on successive turns on the same city. That's why I suggest using airships against Vijay on D-Day, against Delhi on D+1, and against Bombay on D+2.

OK. Thanks for explaining.

I would like to play a couple of turns Saturday and then finalize Sunday. I propose that I play 6 turns in total and that the next player also plays 6 turns since that would bring us to the important decision point when we get our GP in X-ville.

I'm still undecided on whether to spend the 40% commerce on espionage. Any more opinions on that? It's not a big deal and either way is fine with me.

 

[ShannonCT]

I'd say go ahead and get the extra EPs since they have two uses.

 

[leif erikson]

That might come in handy. Does this require that we turn up the espionage slider?

Yes. To get estimates, you go to the espionage screen (ctrl+E or click on the espionage button), choose Gandhi and then click on the city, Vijay..., and it will show you the full cost. Having a stationary Spy in the city reduces the cost 10% per turn up to 50%, so the sooner the Spy arrives, the better.

Just did a test to learn and once you cross the threshold for "Investigate City", all you do is click on it and can see what is in the city screen, very handy!

OK. It looks like Gandhi doesn't have any 2-move units. Is that true? He does have access to horses - did he acquire those recently?

He has at least 2 Horse Archers and two Chariots. If you check the F5 screen, click on Gandhi's image and they show there and give their locations.

He has three sources of Horses. One south of Delhi, one near Hun and the other west of Varanasi. He also has War Elephants...

I would like to play a couple of turns Saturday and then finalize Sunday. I propose that I play 6 turns in total and that the next player also plays 6 turns since that would bring us to the important decision point when we get our GP in X-ville.

I'm still undecided on whether to spend the 40% commerce on espionage. Any more opinions on that? It's not a big deal and either way is fine with me.

I'd say go ahead and get the extra EPs since they have two uses.

I agree with SCT.

 

[DJMGator13]

Nothing to add, other than good luck.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Those two-move units can be weakened by airships if they are out of the cities in route somewhere on a turn that you are not attacking a city (when airships would likely best be used to weaken the city defenders).

One thing that I learned is that an airship will weaken the strongest defender on the tile/city attacked, and, while this is usually just what you would prefer, sometimes it is not: If an airship (or a cannon for that matter) weakens a defender by, say 19%, sometimes -- as might be the case for a heavily promoted longbow -- that weakened AI unit will still remain the strongest defender against an airship. Unfortunately, when the airship attacks that tile again, it will just reduce that longbow's strength by 1%, which is basically a waste of the airship's attack. In this case, you can attack with a unit, especially a cannon if your strongest unit will not be met by that longbow because of promotions, reduce its strength below 20%, and then go back to weakening defenders with airship attacks before employing your other land-based units.

 

[Mad Professor]

Happy New YEar to you all.

Good luck Fred. I'm still drooling over those Indian wonders. Looking forward to them becoming OUR wonders!

 

[leif erikson]

Murky posted another save and their score and power graphs are looking pretty similar to ours. Their culture line is starting to climb too...

Good Luck Fred!

 

[Frederiksberg]

I have played the 3 first turns of my set. Things are proceeding mostly according to plan.

Pre-turn:
Set espionage slider to 40%. Hire extra merchant in X-ville. Misc. MM'ing for production. Move cannons for pickup at the Indian coast (headed for Delhi later). Change builds according to posted plan.

T196:
Restart golden age using GM and GSpy. Hire merchant in X-ville - GP coming in 11 turns. Reset espionage slider to zero. Gandhi is NOT building Versailles. No big surprise. Pericles has discovered DR and is willing to trade!! We get DR and 80 gold in return for Nationalism. Gandhis GProphet is nowhere to see but he has 3 settled Prophets in Delhi!! (We can see all that now). Research changed to Economy. Prague is casptured with no losses and Charlemagne capitulates exactly as we hoped for.

T197:
Gandhi offers to become a vassal - maybe he can feel an attack is imminent. The offer is .... declined. We sell DR to Augustus for 110 gold. Economy is discovered and the free GM is now securely in our hands.

T198:
Not a whole lot to report - primarily unit movements. Augustus didn't build Versailles so he has probably settled the GE which can't be seen anywhere.

Status:
I believe we are ready to attack India next turn and I have a few questions regarding this:

- Can we demand gold from Gandhi before we attack or will this prevent the attack?

- Do we have enough espionage points next turn to incite the revolt or do we need more?

- Why isn't it possible for the spy to pillage the Indian iron?

Intermediate save

 

[Frederiksberg]

Oh - I almost forgot to mention: The game crashed during the last turn. Since I had saved manually every now and then I could easily reproduce the moves although the order may have changed. Anyway there was no combat this turn so no big deal I think.

 

[leif erikson]

I believe we are ready to attack India next turn and I have a few questions regarding this:

- Can we demand gold from Gandhi before we attack or will this prevent the attack?

If we make a demand and Gandhi gives in, the game enforces 10 turns of peace. We cannot declare war during those 10 turns.

- Do we have enough espionage points next turn to incite the revolt or do we need more?

I don't know how long the Spy has been in Vijay. The Espionage Screen says 741 Ep's and we have 689, gaining +16 per turn. It will be close. Perhaps SCT can calculate whether we'll make it or not so we can be sure. He'll need to know how long the Spy has been in the city?

- Why isn't it possible for the spy to pillage the Indian iron?

The Spy must not have moved during the turn, i.e. it must be on the tile at the start of the turn you want to pillage.

Oh - I almost forgot to mention: The game crashed during the last turn. Since I had saved manually every now and then I could easily reproduce the moves although the order may have changed. Anyway there was no combat this turn so no big deal I think.

Thank you for remembering to post this. I'll let Alan know we've had another crash.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I don't know how long the Spy has been in Vijay. The Espionage Screen says 741 Ep's and we have 689, gaining +16 per turn. It will be close. Perhaps SCT can calculate whether we'll make it or not so we can be sure. He'll need to know how long the Spy has been in the city?

The spy has been there for 1 turn.

 

[ShannonCT]

The spy in Vijay gets a 10% discount next turn, so should have enough to support revolt. I dont know if we'll have enough left to pillage iron, but Gandhi will lose the iron when we take Delhi anyway.

We can sell Gandhi PP without getting the 10 turn treaty.

We have a nice shot of the Roman empire right now. This should be useful soon.

 

[Frederiksberg]

The spy in Vijay gets a 10% discount next turn, so should have enough to support revolt. I dont know if we'll have enough left to pillage iron, but Gandhi will lose the iron when we take Delhi anyway.

I will give the revolt priority then. What is the chance of success?

We can sell Gandhi PP without getting the 10 turn treaty.

Yes, that's the alternative. Will do this.

If we make a demand and Gandhi gives in, the game enforces 10 turns of peace. We cannot declare war during those 10 turns.

I had a feeling that something was changed here. Thanks for explaining.

I plan to play my remaining 3 turns tomorrow, Sunday.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Fred, the game crashed on me several times until I went into the Options menu and put graphics setting on low, then no more problems (and the low graphics were no problem).

Better start building Versailles.

Looking good.

 

[DJMGator13]

Fred, the game crashed on me several times until I went into the Options menu and put graphics setting on low, then no more problems (and the low graphics were no problem).

Better start building Versailles.

Looking good.

Progress looks good. On the crash issue you may want to update your video driver, but I'd wait until this game is over since your so close.

 

[ShannonCT]

I had another look at the save and noted a few things:

1. X-ville would really benefit from starting a Bank next turn. Cities like Ivoryville, Braga, and Oporto can handle our final unit builds.

2. X-ville can't build Versailles, since it acts as a second capital. We could build it in Bibracte.

3. It would be good to find some little ways to increase our gold flow. Sell gems to Augustus. Sell maps. Build wealth in cities like Camul, Florence, others when their builds are done. Hire merchants rather than working coast in cities that won't grow in the next few turns.

4. We need our galleons on the Celtic coast to get in position to settle the five northern islands and deliver the free Prophet to Hun. After unloading our units in India, all but one of the galleons in the Rome-India area need to head toward Lagos. One galleon can stay for an assault on Calcutta.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I have played my set. Had some initial problem and another crash as soon as I started the game. Then I set graphics to "low" but that created some strange effects that made some of the map distorted. Finally I selected medium graphics and could finalize the set without any further problems.

Everything went according to the war plan and I stopped before finishing all unit moves in the last turn (T201) because Gandhi is ready to capitulate and if we decide to accept this it will influence how we move our units.

Pre-turn:

Sell PP to Gandhi & World Map to Pericles and Augustus. Trade gems for 4 gpt to Augustus. Versailles started in Jute where it can be done fairly fast.
Science slider to 70%.

T199:
Revolt incited in Vijay (89% chance). Then defenders are bombed with airships and the city is taken with no losses -all battles are 95% or better.
Science slider is adjusted to 80%. 8 Cuirs and 2 cannons are offloaded outside Delhi. Troops start moving against Bombay and Hun. Delhi bombarded by frigates.

T200:
Delhi bombarded with frigates and canons and is down to around 25% defense. Airships bomb the defenders and the city is captured loosing 3 cuirs. All battles are 70% or better in our favor. Hun is bombarded once and then captured loosing one cannon. Science slider to 90%. Units advance on Bombay.

T201:
Bombay is bombarded to 0% defense using 3 cannons and airships degrade all defenders by 20%. The city is captured with no losses - all battles are 90% or better.

Status:
Gandhi is ready to throw in the towel. Question is if we want to continue the war and finance our research this way or perhaps accept and turn our interest to Augustus. It seems that we have an overwhelming military superiority so I don't think we need to build any more units. Conquest is clearly an option as things are now.

1410 AD

 

[rrau]

Some thoughts:

Looking at the save, we have all of Ghandi's wonders, so take peace. Try to get Lahore or Calcutta for peace instead of the city he's offering. They're on separate landmasses, so will count towards our quest.

Ceasar has a large stack we'll need to get ready for. Mostly praetorians, but some horse archers and cats. We'll need to move our airships...Not sure if they automove with DOW (or get destroyed), but would hate for them to go somewhere we don't want them to go.

Need to change EP's to Caesar. Not sure if we'll accumulate enough to do much unless we ramp up espionage.

Caesar has 3 wonders: Apastolic Palace in Rome. Ankor Wat - ? Antium or Arretium would be my guess. I can't read the graphics well enough to tell from the world map. Great wall - Since it's not in Rome, based on the layout of the walls, likely Antium.

Pericles is Caesar's vassal, so we'll be fighting 2 fronts. Not sure if Hun is worth trying to hold against Pericles.

Well, that's my $0.02.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice work Fred!

Glad you found the time.
Gandhi's in the bag, more or less...

Roster:
leif - UP
ShannonCT - On Deck
Cactus Pete
Frederiksberg - just played.
rrau - If you feel up to taking a set, please let us know and I'll slot you as UP.

Mad Professor - Nice to hear from you again. Hope the adventure continues to go well.
Gator - Nice to hear from you.
Jimmy Thunder - On Sabbatical
Killercane - Retired.

We have to keep Hun as it is the Islamic Holy City and we need to build a shrine there.

Augustus' stack in Arpinum is a bit scary so close to Vijay.

Staring at the map and looking at units available for Charlie and Boudica, I was wondering why we haven't given them Gunpowder, Military Tradition and, perhaps, Guilds? Seems like they could do a fine job holding off Pericles with superior units? Both Pericles and Augustus lack Guilds, Military Tradition and Astronomy. Perhaps, if we can find the time, researching and gifting Military Science to them, and Gandi, with Chemistry, might be worth it to provide them with Grens to assist in holding off Pericles and Augustus? It might even break up their alliance...

EDIT - We would have to make sure that our vassals did not trade those techs to Pericles or Augustus before we go to war with them... Seems that we can demand that they not trade with them, we would have to make up their resource losses as:
Gandhi is getting Copper, for Gold, from Augustus and Wine, for Horses, from Pericles.
Charles is getting Iron, for Gems, from Pericles
Boudica is getting Clams for Dyes from Pericles.

In a recent game, the civ I attacked was Master of another and would not capitulate until their vassal broke off, then they both capitulated. That would give us conquest. I had to take more of the Master's cities than normal to break up their arrangement.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looking at the save, we have all of Ghandi's wonders, so take peace. Try to get Lahore or Calcutta for peace instead of the city he's offering. They're on separate landmasses, so will count towards our quest.

I'm leaning in this direction also. Only reason to continue the war is for the captured gold. But I guess we might as well capture Roman cities then.

Not sure if Hun is worth trying to hold against Pericles.

Hun is a holy city so we must hang on to it. And Pericles doesn't look very scary. He will have enough on his hands fighting our vassals.

Staring at the map and looking at units available for Charlie and Boudica, I was wondering why we haven't given them Gunpowder, Military Tradition and, perhaps, Guilds?

You have answered that yourself...

EDIT - We would have to make sure that our vassals did not trade those techs to Pericles or Augustus before we go to war with them... Seems that we can demand that they not trade with them, we would have to make up their resource losses as:

We can't afford to give these techs away unless we are 100% certain they can't be traded to Pericles or Augustus.

Perhaps, if we can find the time, researching and gifting Military Science to them, and Gandi, with Chemistry, might be worth it to provide them with Grens to assist in holding off Pericles and Augustus? It might even break up their alliance...

I think you are crediting Augustus and Pericles with much more strength than they have. Gandhi crumbled in only 3 turns and our 41 cuirs will also make life more than just a little difficult for Augustus.

I was wondering how to tackle the large stack in Arpinium. Does the AI know how to weaken a stack by initial sacrifice? If not it might be possible to block his entire stack with a small stack on the rice tile outside the city.

What about the Apostolic Palace? Has the capture of Gandhi's cities moved the power balance in an unfavorable way?