SGOTM 08 - XTeam

[AlanH]

The game ends when victory is announced. You are suggesting that you could continue to play after the game is over. I don't think this is permissible, whether the continuation is one, two or twenty turns.

I recommend that you try to complete your wonders before victory is announced.

 

[leif erikson]

I've decided that, in the run for the Gold, it would be wise to hand the mouse over to SCT and let his greater experience bring us home.

Roster update:
ShannonCT - UP
Cactus Pete - On Deck
leif
Frederiksberg - just played.
rrau - If you feel up to taking a set, please let us know and I'll slot you as UP.

Mad Professor - Nice to hear from you again. Hope the adventure continues to go well.
Gator - Nice to hear from you.
Jimmy Thunder - On Sabbatical
Killercane - Retired.

 

[leif erikson]

The game ends when victory is announced. You are suggesting that you could continue to play after the game is over. I don't think this is permissible, whether the continuation is one, two or twenty turns.

I recommend that you try to complete your wonders before victory is announced.

Thanks Alan.

 

[ShannonCT]

The game ends when victory is announced. You are suggesting that you could continue to play after the game is over. I don't think this is permissible, whether the continuation is one, two or twenty turns.

I recommend that you try to complete your wonders before victory is announced.

So wonders (built with hammers) that are completed in between the victory vote turn and the turn when victory is announced should count towards our wonder score.

Shrines and Corps can't be built after the victory is announced, so they'll have to be built at least one turn before the victory turn.

I've decided that, in the run for the Gold, it would be wise to hand the mouse over to SCT and let his greater experience bring us home.

Well, I'll play the next 5 turns at least and get us to the point where we get our GP in X-ville. If CP wants to bring us home, he's welcome to.

 

[Frederiksberg]

The game ends when victory is announced. You are suggesting that you could continue to play after the game is over. I don't think this is permissible, whether the continuation is one, two or twenty turns.

I recommend that you try to complete your wonders before victory is announced.

The only thing I'm suggesting is that the rules are not clear on this issue.

Can you confirm that this interpretation is correct?

So wonders (built with hammers) that are completed in between the victory vote turn and the turn when victory is announced should count towards our wonder score.

Shrines and Corps can't be built after the victory is announced, so they'll have to be built at least one turn before the victory turn.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I appreciate SCT's offer to share, and I'm certainly willing to participate, but I would first encourage leif to take his turn (unless he's still feeling the flu effects). If he really doesn't want to, then I'd encourage Fred (who is obviously on top of things) to finish his ten turns. SCT can then take us home or position me (or perhaps leif) to finish up.

 

[ShannonCT]

I appreciate SCT's offer to share, and I'm certainly willing to participate, but I would first encourage leif to take his turn (unless he's still feeling the flu effects). If he really doesn't want to, then I'd encourage Fred (who is obviously on top of things) to finish his ten turns. SCT can then take us home or position me (or perhaps leif) to finish up.

OK, Fred, do you want to do 5 more turns so I can end the game?

 

[Frederiksberg]

I appreciate SCT's offer to share, and I'm certainly willing to participate, but I would first encourage leif to take his turn (unless he's still feeling the flu effects). If he really doesn't want to, then I'd encourage Fred (who is obviously on top of things) to finish his ten turns. SCT can then take us home or position me (or perhaps leif) to finish up.

I don't mind doing 5 more turns. On the other hand I'm sure that leif could do these turns well. We have plenty of time for planning in detail (There's no deadline yet for this game) and there is also the option of making an intermediate save asking the team for input (like I did). leif, you're the captain - you decide .

 

[leif erikson]

I don't mind doing 5 more turns. On the other hand I'm sure that leif could do these turns well. We have plenty of time for planning in detail (There's no deadline yet for this game) and there is also the option of making an intermediate save asking the team for input (like I did). leif, you're the captain - you decide .

Let's make a deal!

How about we go ahead with our planning. If I don't have any nightmares during the process, I'll take the mouse and go!
If a time limit is imposed, then we can decide how to proceed...

There is so much going on in this game atm, I am having difficulty tying together the various parts in a way that makes sense and fits in with the timing for a victory.

A couple of examples:

Revised tech path (12 or 16 turns):

Democracy (1) -- Biology (4) -- if GM or GE in X-ville Medicine (6) -- Corporation (2) -- if no GE from X-ville Refrigeration (5)

With Corporation comes the 800 hammers wonder of Wall Street (although all the Banks are not finished for up to 5 turns) while with Biology there is the 300 hammer wonder of National Park, unless we decide to research Medicine due to the number of hammers required for Hospitals and Red Cross. Not sure how we will complete these in the given time frame?

On city builds, there are a number that will exceed the 12 or 16 turns that we have targeted for our finish. Will we be pop-rushing these and will there be sufficient population to complete them? It seems that some of those cities are producing so many hammers that one turn of rushing will require 3 or more pop points? So I have been having problems trying to figure out how to schedule builds.

I need to spend more time with the military side of things. There are so many units and trying to figure out where they are and how to get them where we want them has been an interesting challenge.

So, there is much to do for me to get prepared to play this turn set...

 

[Frederiksberg]

Let's make a deal!

How about we go ahead with our planning. If I don't have any nightmares during the process, I'll take the mouse and go!
If a time limit is imposed, then we can decide how to proceed...

Deal!

There is so much going on in this game atm, I am having difficulty tying together the various parts in a way that makes sense and fits in with the timing for a victory.

I'm sure we can break this down to a number of simpler tasks. There will, of course, be some dependencies - e.g. between tech path and what we are building. I'm sure that we can specify what to build for the next 5 turns and agree to the corresponding tech path.

A couple of examples:

Democracy (1) -- Biology (4) -- if GM or GE in X-ville Medicine (6) -- Corporation (2) -- if no GE from X-ville Refrigeration (5)

With Corporation comes the 800 hammers wonder of Wall Street (although all the Banks are not finished for up to 5 turns) while with Biology there is the 300 hammer wonder of National Park, unless we decide to research Medicine due to the number of hammers required for Hospitals and Red Cross. Not sure how we will complete these in the given time frame?

The most critical case is when we get a GE because then we research Medicine and have only 2-3 turns to build 6 hospitals and Red Cross (Wall Street is easy because we build it with the GE). If we dont get a GM we have 5 (maybe 6 if it's OK to finish wonders in the IBT before victory is declared) turns to build Wall Street while researching Refrigeration. I think this is doable in e.g. Horseville if we whip in the end. It's something that needs verification.

The reason for researching Biology before Coporation is that we want to be able to start Medicine as soon as we know the type of GP we get in X-ville.

On city builds, there are a number that will exceed the 12 or 16 turns that we have targeted for our finish. Will we be pop-rushing these and will there be sufficient population to complete them? It seems that some of those cities are producing so many hammers that one turn of rushing will require 3 or more pop points? So I have been having problems trying to figure out how to schedule builds.

I'm sure SCT can tell us how many hammers we get from one pop when rushing a wonder in a city with confu and forge.

I need to spend more time with the military side of things. There are so many units and trying to figure out where they are and how to get them where we want them has been an interesting challenge.

I think the military side can be broken down into 4 main tasks:

1. Attack on Lahore
2. Attack on Cumae
3. Attack on Antium
4. Defense against Roman stack in Arpinium

We could make battle plans for each.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Added time planning will no doubt be well spent.

#5 military: Make sure the Greeks don't throw a monkey wrench at us.

Maybe a pause for additional planning after we declare on Augustus and see what he does IBT.

 

[ShannonCT]

I'm sure SCT can tell us how many hammers we get from one pop when rushing a wonder in a city with confu and forge.

Testing shows Horseville would get ~35 hammers per pop whipped with Kremlin.

Other suggestions:

We need at least 3 settlers. We could get 2 from Horseville (between UN and start of Wall Street) and 1 from Canalville (between Bank and Globe). Those three can settle the 3 islands north of Ulundi. If we can get island cities Calcutta, Lahore, and Satricum, that'll make 10 landmasses.

Ivoryville can start building workboats for gold overflow. It should be worth 65-70 gpt during the golden age.

We need 3 cannons built in Portugal. I think Lagos (3 turns) Oporto (2) and Lisbon (2) are best. After Oporto and Lagos finish cannons, build wealth. With 12 units headed to Antium, we need 4 galleons. There are 4 galleons in the Delhi-Arpinum corridor (one needs to drop off units at Calcutta this turn). The stack of 12 will be ready to unload near Antium in 6 turns, including a possible attack on Satricum. One of the galleons near Pataliputara can go pick up three Cuirs for an amphi assault on Calcutta next turn.

We can attack Agra with good odds this turn if we use one airship against the LB. Other airships should rebase to Delhi and Vijay for attack on Calcutta.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Units wounded in the battle for Calcutta . . . Is plan to drop them off in Lagos and return for them?

 

[leif erikson]

The hard drive on my game computer is being scanned for error, so I can't look at the save.

iirc, we can build a Galleon in Lagos in 2 turns. So we could drop off those units and send our force north for Antium and then use this Galleon to transport troops back to the mainland for the fight against the stack or Cumae?

 

[ShannonCT]

Units wounded in the battle for Calcutta . . . Is plan to drop them off in Lagos and return for them?

Lagos is already ours (former Portugese city). Do you means Lahore (Indian)? We can probably get Lahore for free when Gandhi capitulates. If not, we just need one more settler. I think we should end the war with Gandhi next turn and get on with the business of Augustus.

iirc, we can build a Galleon in Lagos in 2 turns. So we could drop off those units and send our force north for Antium and then use this Galleon to transport troops back to the mainland for the fight against the stack or Cumae?

We don't need to build any more galeons. We have enough for our objectives. Lagos should build a cannon I think. Units that take Calcutta can be transported back to Delhi with the 2 galleons next to Pataliputara right now. No MP needed there. Our frigates rule the waves.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I have updated the build plan with hammer per turn values and revised estimates on build times. It will be close in Horseville if we go for victory in 12! Maybe the trick is to whip also the bank? I have moved the National Park to Jute where it fits nicely. We don't have time for a settler in Horseville since we need a bank there. I have scheduled one in Coimbra instead. All 3 settlers are built 7 turns from now and we can build an "emergency" settler in 1 turn in Ulundi if needed. Note, that we can wait till next turn with hiring the two extra merchants in X-ville and thus get the bank one turn earlier.

GP timing:
X-ville is MM'ed to get the GP in 5 turns. Proposal is now to hire 2 merchants next turn (remove citizens from mines) and get the GP in 5 turns.

Revised tech path (12 or 16 turns):

Democracy (1) -- Biology (4) -- if GM or GE in X-ville Medicine (6) -- Corporation (2) -- if no GE from X-ville Refrigeration (5)

The associated builds:

This build plan is for the case where we skip Medicine - a revised build plan should be done when we know the GP type. Now that we wait with work shops in X-ville I have kept WStreet in Horseville since it can be whipped. The same goes for Hollywood and it won't even hurt the Diplo VC vote because we can whip after the vote and still have the Wonders built in time. Number of settlers needed is unknown - 3 settlers in current plan and we may need more if we don't get 3 island cities by capturing or negotiating in peace deal. Not everything is planned and not all cities are mentioned. I suggest that captured cities only build military units. In the last few turns our homeland cities can build wealth.

Ivoryville (105 hpt) Workboat(1)+gold from overflow,.....

Ulundi (153 hpt soon 161 hpt) Rock'n'Roll (3), Hollywood (7)

Horseville (89 hpt) UN (5), Bank(3), Wall Street(9 - can be whipped after 5 turns)

Furville (83 hpt - if we work plains hill instead of sheep) Cristo Redentor (2), The Statue of Liberty (10 - can be whipped after 7-8 turns)

Oporto (70 hpt) Cannon(2),wealth

Lisbon (60 hpt) Cannon(2), Broadway (9),

X-ville (21hpt / 50 hpt - 77 hpt w. wshops) Bank (4), Settler (3)

Braga (56 hpt) Bank(5), The Eiffel Tower (6)

Jute (58 hpt - soon 63 hpt) Versailles(6), National Park (6)

Guimares (62 hpt - soon 68 hpt) The Kremlin (3), settler(2), wealth

Stoneville (MM to 26 hpt) Bank (1), wealth

Canalville (28 hpt) Bank(3), Settler(4), Globe (7)

Coimbra (25 hpt) FP (3), Settler(4)

Pigville (24 hpt) Bank (5)

Bibracte (26 hpt) Cuirassier (1)

Aachen (38 hpt - has 9 forests) Cuirassier

Other additions to the plan:

- Keep the towns around X-ville.
- Keep building work shops in other cities - in some cases even on food resources if enough food is there.

 

[leif erikson]

Thanks Fred!

Testing shows Horseville would get ~35 hammers per pop whipped with Kremlin.

Is this with the bonus for Stone? Seems low if it is, or does Stone not give a bonus when whipping? Can't remember...

We need at least 3 settlers. We could get 2 from Horseville (between UN and start of Wall Street) and 1 from Canalville (between Bank and Globe). Those three can settle the 3 islands north of Ulundi. If we can get island cities Calcutta, Lahore, and Satricum, that'll make 10 landmasses.

We would have to move the Bank Fred has scheduled in Horseville. Fred has Settlers scheduled in Coimbra, X-ville and Canalville. Would Pigville be a possibility after it completes its Bank?

Ivoryville can start building workboats for gold overflow. It should be worth 65-70 gpt during the golden age.

Do we delete the Work Boats after they are built to avoid Maintenance?

We need 3 cannons built in Portugal. I think Lagos (3 turns) Oporto (2) and Lisbon (2) are best. After Oporto and Lagos finish cannons, build wealth. With 12 units headed to Antium, we need 4 galleons. There are 4 galleons in the Delhi-Arpinum corridor (one needs to drop off units at Calcutta this turn). The stack of 12 will be ready to unload near Antium in 6 turns, including a possible attack on Satricum. One of the galleons near Pataliputara can go pick up three Cuirs for an amphi assault on Calcutta next turn.

Yes, I see this now and it looks good.

We can attack Agra with good odds this turn if we use one airship against the LB. Other airships should rebase to Delhi and Vijay for attack on Calcutta.

Yes, should be ours before change of turn.

Units wounded in the battle for Calcutta . . . Is plan to drop them off in Lagos and return for them?

There are two Galleons near Pataliputra that can move east and move any units from the Calcutta operation to Delhi and then continue to ferry troops as needed to Rome. That still leaves four Galleons to move troops towards Antium.

Lagos is already ours (former Portugese city). Do you means Lahore (Indian)? We can probably get Lahore for free when Gandhi capitulates. If not, we just need one more settler. I think we should end the war with Gandhi next turn and get on with the business of Augustus.

Concur.

We don't need to build any more galeons. We have enough for our objectives. Lagos should build a cannon I think. Units that take Calcutta can be transported back to Delhi with the 2 galleons next to Pataliputara right now. No MP needed there. Our frigates rule the waves.

Yes, I see it now.

Is there a reason not to continue building units in Portuguese cities once their wonders are completed and until they can no longer make it to the battlefield, unless we need the Gold?

 

[ShannonCT]

Fred, I think the 3 cannons I suggested should be the last units built on our home continent. No need for more Cuirs in Ivoryville. Cities that aren't building wonders, banks, or settlers can build wealth until we need to build the six hospitals.

Leif, Wall Street doesn't get a stone bonus.

The first WB from Ivoryville can grab whales south of Stoneville. All others should be deleted.

 

[leif erikson]

Leif, Wall Street doesn't get a stone bonus.

I asked because you said your test was on Kremlin, which does get a bonus for stone? I wasn't sure whether the test had stone connected?

OK on stopping unit builds and the Work Boats.

 

[ShannonCT]

I asked because you said your test was on Kremlin, which does get a bonus for stone? I wasn't sure whether the test had stone connected?

OK on stopping unit builds and the Work Boats.

My test was on WS, with Kremlin already built. Kremlin increases whipping yield.