SGOTM 11 - Fifth Element

[Mitchum]

Mitch, can we consider you UP?
I haven't seen any complaint to this, so please confirm. (or not)

Yes, I've got it and I will put together a PPP once we settle on the preferred approach among the 6 options we currently have. I'm definitely not opposed to Irgy's whipping options as they appear to do quite well (plus I just love to , especially in a city with a granary and soooo much surplus food).

The last thing I want to understand is the size of Delhi after the third great person is born. I will likely play Irgy2 (option A or B) today to get a feel for this approach. I just hope I can match Irgy's T133 date with his magically learning Math on T132 even though it didn't look like he would make it.

 

[BLubmuz]

OK Mitch, i updated the roster.

@ all
we're again behind all the other teams but one - if i read correctly the graphs - in terms of time.

We must try to go faster.

After this crucial TS, do we need the same amount of testing or can we just run some simulation?

I'm asking it 'cause we must try to test and discuss as appropriate but with an eye to the deadline.

Later tonight or tomorrow i'll try to put together an updated schedule.

 

[Mitchum]

@ Irgy

I just tried to duplicate your test. On T131, I had 525/585 beakers for Math (60 short). My beakers after whipping the temple are +48. I did not mysteriously get Math like you did.

How many beakers did you have in Math on T131? How many beakers were you supposed to get that turn?

I worked nothing but cottages in Riverdale and Bedrock. I worked the cottage in Delhi on every turn too.

I'm not sure how you were able to squeeze out the extra beakers...

The result is that I can't get the Pyramids until T134. Not a deal breaker, but I'd like to get them on T133 like you did.

Just to make sure that I had enough hammers, I gave myself Math in WB and chopped the 4 forests. In order to have enough hammers, I had to work 2 corn, copper, 2 mined hills and a priest (I could not work the cottage or the GL farm this turn). Did you have to do something similar?

 

[Mitchum]

@ all
we're again behind all the other teams but one - if i read correctly the graphs - in terms of time.

We must try to go faster.

After this crucial TS, do we need the same amount of testing or can we just run some simulation?

I'm asking it 'cause we must try to test and discuss as appropriate but with an eye to the deadline.

Later tonight or tomorrow i'll try to put together an updated schedule.

I agree that we need to pick it up. The biggest issue lately is it seems that everyone is busy with real life and can't contribute much. This has meant that only Irgy and I are running test games and figuring out the best way to proceed. Plus, I just found out yesterday that I was up, which slowed us down a bit as well. I'm not complaining, but things outside the game have slowed us down.

In the future, the value of testing this extensively will be less since it will be very difficult for us to have a test game in such close lock step with the real game. I'm hoping that this process of nailing down the fine details in these early turn sets has made our team members aware of the many subtle ways to play more efficiently. Going forward, we'll have to trust that we will all play with these things in mind. We can instead focus on the bigger picture like tech order, city locations, diplomacy, World Wonder strategy, high-level city management (e.g. build order, tile improvements...), etc.

With that said, there may come a time when detailed MM is required, like trying to squeeze out that extra 3rd great person during a Golden Age. But in general, these small MM details will have less and less of an impact as our empire gets larger and we have more cities and more workers. Early on, these small details can amount to an increase of 10 to 20% in hammers, science, worker turns, etc. Going forward, losing a hammer here or a worker turn there will account for much less than 5% and won't have as big an impact on our game as a whole.

 

[BLubmuz]

Mitch, i completely agree on your post above.

@ ALL
I' tried to draft a schedule (see my #5) for an average of 5 days/TS.

Please take a look and let me know your thoughts.

I agree that we need less intensive MM to be planned after the incoming TS and we must also consider that as the game progresses our simulations will lose some value, due to many factors outside our control (the unknown opponents, the techs they know, the relations with them, wars - sooner or later) so our need to test so intensively to squeeze the last hammer or coin from a TS will decrease.

Not our attention in planning and mainly playing the actual game.

Now, i think Mitch and Irgy have explored any kind of variable and option. Mitch will tell us in his PPP what he'll try to squeeze from his TS and surely he will put to vote or to a team decision the needed points.

I think we have no settler out in his TS, but surely the first city to settle is the cow/pig/fish GP farm and it seems we all agree on its placement, so i think his PPP will need to refine some minor point and we can hopefully have it submitted in 3 days from now.

 

[Irgy]

Here's the micro for my pyramids T133 save:

120: Workers 1,3,4 cancel action
121: Whip 2xgranaries (Dehli, Riverdale). Switch Dehli to work the cottage (from mine). Research 100%. Worker 2 builds a cottage in place.
122: Dehli starts on 'mids. Settle Weaties. Riverdale works 2 cottages.
123: Dehli builds a temple for a turn. Worker 4 cottages the other floodplains for one turn, then cancel action.
124: Dehli's extra citizen works a farm. Switch Dehli back to 'mids. Worker 4 moves towards Dehli (it can pchop the roaded plains-forest on the way). Workers 1,3 move 2E to cottage on remaining floodplains, then cancel action. Make sure Bedrock is working two floodplain cottages (it should be automatically).
125: Worker 4 starts chopping the marked grass forest 1NE of Dehli. Workers 1&3 build a road on the forest 1NW of Bedrock (for something to do). Worker 2 moves NW and builds a road.
126: Worker 3 moves to finally finish the floodplains cottage (over 2 turns). Worker 2 cancels action.
127: Worker 1 moves to Dehli (pchopping the roaded plains forest again). Worker 2 moves to grass forest hill. Worker 4 automatically stops chopping, 1 turn left.
128: Research->70%. We may be able to improve the level of binary used here to save a beaker, I'm just reporting what I did in the game because it worked. Worker1 moves SW from the roaded forest and chops the marked forest. Worker 4 moves NW to start chopping the remaining marked forest. Worker 2 starts chopping the grass forest hill.
129: Riverdale temple complete, switch to library. Worker 3 moves E to help worker 4 chop.
130: Nearly all pre-chops are prepared. Workers 3 and 4 have a couple of spare turns. I spent them starting a cottage over the grass forest SE that's about to be chopped.
131: Worker 1 has a spare turn here too. I spent it starting a cottage 1SE on the bare grass. Dehli switches back to temple and whips. Dehli then works as much food as possible. Now, switching to 90% research left me finishing Math with 1 gold to spare. Workers 1,3,4 cancel action in preparation for chopping.
132: Math is in, switch to Alphabet or Civil Service at 0%. Dehli's new citizen works grass hill. All workers finish their chops. You should see enough hammers to complete the pyramids at the end of this turn.

 

[Irgy]

We can't improve cows, pigs or fish until Alphabet. So I don't think it's worth settling that city first.

The next settler comes from Riverdale, so we'll all get it on the same turn.

My Dehli eventually stagnated at 9 pop working 5 specialists (or 3 priests and still growing from grass farm and grass hill mine in the case of GS first).

I agree it's a close call on floodplains vs rice. Compared to farming the floodplains, we lose 1 commerce, but get a cottage on the grass, which has to be an improvement in the long run. Compared to cottaging the floodplains, we get 1 extra food at the cost of 1 commerce, which in my opinion is an improvement.

The eastern 1 crab city is worth building eventually but probably not a priority.

 

[Mitchum]

We can't improve cows, pigs or fish until Alphabet. So I don't think it's worth settling that city first.

The next settler comes from Riverdale, so we'll all get it on the same turn.

You beat me to it. I agree the the GP Farm may not be quite ready to settle yet. Although, we learn Alphabet in all of our tests ~ T150 and this city would be settled around T146. We could just run an artist for a border pop the first 4 turns while building a granary, right? The sooner we settle and grow this city, the sooner we'll have all the Great Scientists we need for speedy research. The later we settle it, the less value it will provide in the end.

For me, it's a toss up between Rice and GP Farm, but I'm leaning toward GP Farm for the reason above.

 

[BLubmuz]

You beat me to it. I agree the the GP Farm may not be quite ready to settle yet. Although, we learn Alphabet in all of our tests ~ T150 and this city would be settled around T146. We could just run an artist for a border pop the first 4 turns while building a granary, right? The sooner we settle and grow this city, the sooner we'll have all the Great Scientists we need for speedy research. The later we settle it, the less value it will provide in the end.

For me, it's a toss up between Rice and GP Farm, but I'm leaning toward GP Farm for the reason above.

Yes, but be care running artists to expand borders with a Philo Leader, we can have a GArtist instead of a GS.

Playing as Gandhi in OR can't we squeeze a missionary with all our settlers? Borders will expand slower, but the gene will not be polluted.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Trying for which Great Person as our 2nd Great Person
A Consideration

Spoiler :

While trying to get a Great Scientist first and getting a Great Prophet may earn us a bit more Science, what happens if we actually GET that Great Scientist?

Well, we are agreed that we'll want to get a Great Prophet next, as a 2nd Great Scientist (as our 3rd Great Person) isn't going to make for a good Lightbulb. It could make for an Academy, but we also agreed that Bureaucracy from Civil Service owns the pants off an an Academy. While both would be nice, if it's a choice between the two (and it IS going to be a choice between the two), then early Bureaucracy wins hands-down.

So, if we get a Great Scientist as our 2nd Great Person just by trying to squeeze out a bit more Flasks from working Scientists, we'll have to work Prophet Specialists for a LONG TIME.

The Analysis

Spoiler :

Option 1. Trying for a Great Scientist as our 2nd Great Person gains us a bit more early Flasks, but risks forcing us to spend a long time chasing after our 3rd Great Person without running Scientist Specialists in the capitol, thus losing us a great deal of Flasks overall.
OR
Option 2. Trying for a Great Prophet as our 2nd Great Person will net us a bit fewer Flasks now, but will allow us to focus on running Scientists for quite a while in Delhi as we chase after our 3rd Great Person there as a Great Scientist, thus we'll FOR CERTAIN gain a lot of Flasks over time.


Option 1 has us playing risky with a short-term benefit that loses out in the medium term in a big way.

Option 2 has guaranteed medium-term greater Science than Option 1. Option 2 also allows us to get Bureaucracy early on, while Option 1, if it goofs up, only allows us to get Philosophy "partway through" the chase to get our 3rd Great Person.

Finally, if we don't try for a Great Prophet 2nd, we may end up with a Great Engineer. Now, it's not a totally bad thing to get one, but it's outside of the scope of our primary plans to get one, so it would be preferred that we did not get a Great Engineer as our 2nd Great Person

Spoiler :

as our 3rd Great Person would be preferable, or our 4th even more preferable, but as our 2nd one, it kind of sucks, as we could equally build The Apostolic Palace with a Great Engineer as a 3rd Great Person instead of a 2nd Great Person, but we'd miss out on the opportunity of better leveraging a different Great Person for our 2nd Great Person.

In Summary

Spoiler :

We can't just use numbers that look at the short term (the dates for when we learn Civil Service, Alphabet, and Philosophy.

Instead, we have to recognize that aiming to get a Great Prophet as our 2nd Great Person gains us a lot more Flasks over the next 3 turnsets than if we risk the chance of getting a Great Scientist as our 2nd Great Person and actually get a Great Scientist.

Playing the "risky game" of "somewhat trying" for a Great Scientist as our 2nd Great Person can backfire badly, messing up our Science output when we try for our 3rd Great Person. It can even "double backfire" if we thereby increase our odds of getting a Great Engineer by inadvertently reducing the chances of getting a Great Prophet.

 

[BLubmuz]

Fact is that in Dehli the gene is polluted by the Oracle.
So, if we can have a GS first, it would be easier to have a GP next.
A GP first do not exclude a 3rd GP and that would be a disaster, since we hardly can found Tao.

OTOH, running priest specialists in representation gives us the same beakers we have now running Scientists, with a nice hammer and a nice coin attached.

too late now, C ya tomorrow

 

[Mitchum]

Playing the "risky game" of "somewhat trying" for a Great Scientist as our 2nd Great Person can backfire badly, messing up our Science output when we try for our 3rd Great Person. It can even "double backfire" if we thereby increase our odds of getting a Great Engineer by inadvertently reducing the chances of getting a Great Prophet.[/SPOILER]

I agree that a Great Prophet as our second great person is the best option. I just wanted to point out that the odds of getting a Great Engineer as our second great person are greater when going for a Great Prophet because we can only afford to run two priests as opposed to 3 scientists. No matter what we do, a GE this early sucks.

 

[Mitchum]

Here's the micro for my pyramids T133 save:

120: Workers 1,3,4 cancel action
121: Whip 2xgranaries (Dehli, Riverdale). Switch Dehli to work the cottage (from mine). Research 100%. Worker 2 builds a cottage in place.
122: Dehli starts on 'mids. Settle Weaties. Riverdale works 2 cottages.
123: Dehli builds a temple for a turn. Worker 4 cottages the other floodplains for one turn, then cancel action.
124: Dehli's extra citizen works a farm. Switch Dehli back to 'mids. Worker 4 moves towards Dehli (it can pchop the roaded plains-forest on the way). Workers 1,3 move 2E to cottage on remaining floodplains, then cancel action. Make sure Bedrock is working two floodplain cottages (it should be automatically).
125: Worker 4 starts chopping the marked grass forest 1NE of Dehli. Workers 1&3 build a road on the forest 1NW of Bedrock (for something to do). Worker 2 moves NW and builds a road.
126: Worker 3 moves to finally finish the floodplains cottage (over 2 turns). Worker 2 cancels action.
127: Worker 1 moves to Dehli (pchopping the roaded plains forest again). Worker 2 moves to grass forest hill. Worker 4 automatically stops chopping, 1 turn left.
128: Research->70%. We may be able to improve the level of binary used here to save a beaker, I'm just reporting what I did in the game because it worked. Worker1 moves SW from the roaded forest and chops the marked forest. Worker 4 moves NW to start chopping the remaining marked forest. Worker 2 starts chopping the grass forest hill.
129: Riverdale temple complete, switch to library. Worker 3 moves E to help worker 4 chop.
130: Nearly all pre-chops are prepared. Workers 3 and 4 have a couple of spare turns. I spent them starting a cottage over the grass forest SE that's about to be chopped.
131: Worker 1 has a spare turn here too. I spent it starting a cottage 1SE on the bare grass. Dehli switches back to temple and whips. Dehli then works as much food as possible. Now, switching to 90% research left me finishing Math with 1 gold to spare. Workers 1,3,4 cancel action in preparation for chopping.
132: Math is in, switch to Alphabet or Civil Service at 0%. Dehli's new citizen works grass hill. All workers finish their chops. You should see enough hammers to complete the pyramids at the end of this turn.

I didn't spend too much time looking at the worker actions, but I did basically what you did. The important thing is that all four chops are in on T132.

I did binary research while you ran at 70% and 90% for two turns. I assume that this is the difference in getting Math 1 turn earlier as I was only about 3 beakers short. Even though I presume that this is less efficient (based on gold on T135 plus beakers in the next tech, for example). However, in this case, maybe we can "waste" a few coins to get Math 1 turn sooner.

By the way, on T129 when Delhi grew to 7, I assume you were working 3 farms, 3 mines and a cottage.

Also, on T120, I moved the citizen from the Plains Hill mine to the Farm. This gave me fewer hammers, but I think food and growth are more important, especially with how many specialists we want to run. Even in doing this, I was able to finish the 'Mids hammer wise (assuming I had Math ) on T133 (IBT T132 and T133) by moving a citizen from the cottage to a priest for 1 turn (getting a jump start on GPRo #2 )

I will put together a PPP tonight if I can. Otherwise, it will be in about 18 hours...

 

[Irgy]

Trying for which Great Person as our 2nd Great Person...Option 1 has us playing risky with a short-term benefit that loses out in the medium term in a big way.

I think this is something of an overstatement. I'll summarise the arguments in favour of actually getting the GSci first:
* We get alphabet sooner. This means hunting-fishing-sailing to kickstart Riverdale, AH to work the two cows in our BFCs already and get the GP-farm city started, and more chance of trading Alphabet to Zara.
* We get Philosophy sooner. Less chance of disrupting our long term plans by missing a religion.
* A slightly increased risk of getting a great engineer as the third GP, but also a slightly reduced risk of getting it second, and a completely removed risk of getting a third great prophet. Overall this is significantly less risk of unwanted great people.
* We don't need to run cast system, so we can whip granaries in Bedrock and Wheaties.
* We do get less beakers, but we at least get to work scientists for the second great person, and we have philosophy to speed up most of the third, so it's not as many as you make it out to be.
* In exchange for less beakers, we get to work more improved tiles in Dehli, giving us more food, and noticably more hammers than we get from Beaurocracy, given that we'd be working scientists rather than hammer tiles (except the copper).

So, we have a lot to show for our lost beakers. I'm not convinced either way yet, but I'm just pointing out that this option it wasn't given a fair treatment in your analysis.

 

[Irgy]

By the way, on T129 when Delhi grew to 7, I assume you were working 3 farms, 3 mines and a cottage.

Sounds right. Can't imagine what else I'd have been working. On the whole I think I strictly followed the following priority order:
Corn farms > Copper mine > Cottage > Farm > Grass Mine > Plains Mine.

I might have once switched from grass to plains mine when it didn't delay growth, but this might not be a good idea anyway.

Also, on T120, I moved the citizen from the Plains Hill mine to the Farm. This gave me fewer hammers, but I think food and growth are more important, especially with how many specialists we want to run. Even in doing this, I was able to finish the 'Mids hammer wise (assuming I had Math ) on T133 (IBT T132 and T133) by moving a citizen from the cottage to a priest for 1 turn (getting a jump start on GPRo #2 )

Sorry, I wrote this down on my piece of paper but didn't transfer it: On turn 120 I switched from the mine to the *cottage* (we really need the commerce). The farm might have been a better choice, but earlier growth if any will still not catch up the commerce from that cottage, and I needed to squeeze out all the commerce I could get.

We shouldn't need to move off the cottage, nor work a specialist before representation. We need both the food and the commerce from that cottage. I had a few hammers spare for the pyramids as it was.

 

[Mitchum]

Sorry, I wrote this down on my piece of paper but didn't transfer it: On turn 120 I switched from the mine to the *cottage* (we really need the commerce). The farm might have been a better choice, but earlier growth if any will still not catch up the commerce from that cottage, and I needed to squeeze out all the commerce I could get.

We shouldn't need to move off the cottage, nor work a specialist before representation. We need both the food and the commerce from that cottage. I had a few hammers spare for the pyramids as it was.

Delhi is at size 6 on T120, so I worked 2 corn, copper, farm, cottage and Grass Hill mine. When you start the save, there is a citizen on the Plains Hill mine, which I moved to the farm (the cottage was already being worked). I just wanted to point that out as a possible difference since you didn't mention it. Plus, I had to move a citizen from the cottage to a Priest on T132, so I thought maybe you had gotten the extra hammers on T120 by working the Plains Hill mine...

In any event, working a Priest one turn early isn't a bad thing. It may pull in Civil Service by one turn. And if not him, maybe Great Person 3 is a turn sooner...

I'll work on my PPP now, trying to use the slider to squeeze out a few beakers and pull in Math by 1 turn.

 

[Irgy]

Delhi is at size 6 on T120, so I worked 2 corn, copper, farm, cottage and Grass Hill mine. When you start the save, there is a citizen on the Plains Hill mine, which I moved to the farm (the cottage was already being worked). I just wanted to point that out as a possible difference since you didn't mention it. Plus, I had to move a citizen from the cottage to a Priest on T132, so I thought maybe you had gotten the extra hammers on T120 by working the Plains Hill mine...

I'm getting confused then. If the cottage is being worked already, then I do indeed switch to the farm, the same as you. I definately switch away from the mine anyway. If in doubt, the priority order I gave before should work.

In any event, working a Priest one turn early isn't a bad thing. It may pull in Civil Service by one turn. And if not him, maybe Great Person 3 is a turn sooner...

The food is a bottleneck in producing gpp in the next turnset. Losing 2 food will almost certainly delay at least one of the future growths by a turn, costing a specialist turn later on anyway.

If this is the case, this then gives a net loss of the 3 cottage commerce not worked, one turn of cottage growth, and the 3 representation beakers not earned (the 2 food is effectively eaten up by the extra priest on that later 1-turn-earlier growth turn).

I'll work on my PPP now, trying to use the slider to squeeze out a few beakers and pull in Math by 1 turn.

Best of luck. Research 10% on T130 and back to 100% T131 should be equivalent to my 70% -> 70% -> 90%, with a minimum of non-binary turns. See how it goes for you.

 

[Mitchum]

The food is a bottleneck in producing gpp in the next turnset. Losing 2 food will almost certainly delay at least one of the future growths by a turn, costing a specialist turn later on anyway.

If this is the case, this then gives a net loss of the 3 cottage commerce not worked, one turn of cottage growth, and the 3 representation beakers not earned (the 2 food is effectively eaten up by the extra priest on that later 1-turn-earlier growth turn).

I found a way to do it. I switch from the GL Mine to the PH Mine for one turn. This exchanged 1 food for 1 hammer. I finished the Pyramids without a hammer to spare on T133.

Best of luck. Research 10% on T130 and back to 100% T131 should be equivalent to my 70% -> 70% -> 90%, with a minimum of non-binary turns. See how it goes for you.

I followed your lead of 70% -> 70% -> 80% -> 90%, which did the trick. I will work on this, but I want to post my PPP so I can get comments on it while I fine tune the details.

Dang. It's time for bed. I'll post my PPP tomorrow. Sorry.

I follow Irgy's plan other than worker actions. For example, I have 1 worker build a road segment toward Wheaton. We'll want to get 1 or 2 workers out there soon to finish the road (+1 trade route) and to farm the wheat and the plains tile 1S of the wheat for irrigation spread.

I also propose that I stop my turnset on T133. I will not have worked any specialists, so we can use the following turnset to determine what great person we want to try for without delaying this turnset.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

The Timing of Binary Research

Spoiler :

Switching up which turns run at 100% Gold vs 100% Science Rates

Spoiler :

I did binary research while you ran at 70% and 90% for two turns. I assume that this is the difference in getting Math 1 turn earlier as I was only about 3 beakers short. Even though I presume that this is less efficient (based on gold on T135 plus beakers in the next tech, for example). However, in this case, maybe we can "waste" a few coins to get Math 1 turn sooner.

Although I haven't looked into detail when research rates were changed, what you CAN possibly do is:
If you Find that you have too much Gold relative to Flasks, then try to switch the turns that you are at 100% Gold vs 100% Science.

For example:
If your empire makes, say, 30 Commerce per turn at the start of your turnset and 36 Commerce per turn, then you might switch things up as follows:
a) Instead of working 5 turns early on of 100% Gold at 30 Commerce per turn for 5 * 30 = 150 Gold, work 4 turns later on of 100% Gold at 36 Commerce per turn, for 4 * 36 = 144 Gold
OR
b) Instead of working 5 turns later on of 100% at 34 Commerce per turn for 5 * 34 = 170 Gold, work 5 turns of 100% at 32 Commerce per turn earlier on for 5 * 32 = 160 Gold

Whatever way works. Basically, the idea is that whether we were getting 100% Gold early on in the turnset or later on in the turnset, you can swap the timing of WHEN you go to 100% Gold vs 100% Science based on us netting difference Commerce values over time (say, as more Cottages get built and worked).

Leveraging multiples of 4 when we only have a couple of Libraries (we only have 1 at this point)

Spoiler :

Another thought is that you can be even trickier if at some point during the turnset, Delhi's Commerce rate is a multiple of 4, while at other times, it is significantly different than a multiple of 4. Since Delhi is the only City with a Library, if we have 4n + 3 Commerce coming in, where n is an integer value, that turn might be better spent on 100% Gold, if soon thereafter (by building a Cottage or a Cottage maturing) we'll be at 4n + 4 = 4(n+1) Commerce coming in from Delhi, which would give us a free bonus Flask from the Library were we to run a 100% Science rate at that point. Similarly, if earlier on we have 4n, 4n + 1, or 4n + 2 Commerce coming in but only plan to get somewhere up to 4n + 3 Commerce (but not as high as 4n + 4 Commerce), then the timing of WHEN you run a 100% Gold Rate vs a 100% Science Rate can be dictated more by my above point about swapping the timing of when we run 100% Gold vs 100% Science, since all turns will be equal to each other in terms of getting the Library bonus. And finally, of course, if we have a point in the turnset where we're at less than 4(n+1) but will get up to 4(n+1) or will exceed that value, say, we're at 4n + 2 or 4n + 3 and a Cottage later gets worked and/or later matures, then we can plan to put as many of our 100% Science Rate turns after the point where we're netting at least 4(n+1) Commerce.

 

[Mitchum]

Research
Use binary research as much as possible to ensure that we learn Math on T132. The current plan is to run research at 0% on T120, 10% on T121, 100% on T122 to T130 and 80% on T131.

Exploration
Warrior 3 (near Wheaton) will NOT be used to explore the ocean to the east of the desert and the Southeast of Zara’s land. He will instead be moved 1S into Wheaton on the turn it is settled and be fortified there.

Delhi
Build queue will be Granary (whipped on T121) -> Pyramids -> Confucian Temple (1 turn) -> Pyramids -> Confucian Temple (whip on T131) -> Pyramids (4 forests chopped on T131, finished on T132). I will check the auto log to see if the Pyramids have been built before whipping the temple (T131) and before chopping a single forest (T132).

Citizens will always work the two Corns, Copper and a cottage. Commerce, food and growth will be prioritized over hammers as the city grows.

Silverado
No change. Work Silver mine and continue building a settler.

Riverdale
Build queue will be Granary (whipped on T121) -> Confucian Temple (T129) -> Library.
Citizens in this city will always be working cottages.

Bedrock
Granary will continue to be built at 1H/turn.
Citizens in this city will always be working flood plain cottages.

Wheaton
Settle on T122 1N or the Oasis. If I cannot settle in this location, stop and discuss what to do next. Otherwise, continue on with the turn set. Set build queue to a Granary and work the Oasis tile.

Workers
Worker 1 – Help finish 2 cottages on flood plains tiles near Bedrock. Pre-chop forests around Delhi. Chop forest W-NW of Delhi on T132.

Worker 2 – Build cottage 1W of Riverdale. Pre-chop forests between Riverdale and Delhi. Chop forest 2E of Delhi on T132.

Worker 3 – Help finish 2 cottages on flood plains tiles near Bedrock. Build one road segment on the GHill N-NE-NE of Delhi. Pre-chop forests around Delhi. Pre-cottage GFor NE of Delhi for 2 turns. Chop forest N-N of Delhi on T132.

Worker 4 – Help finish 2 cottages on flood plains tiles near Bedrock. Pre-chop forests around Delhi. Chop forest NE of Delhi on T132.


Discussion 1: Can we safely use Warrior 3 to explore? This leaves Wheaton unprotected. However, with our cultural view, we would see an army buildup way before it could get to Wheaton. My plan also has Warrior 2 providing a second unit in Riverdale, a city which has more importance and is in greater danger of a surprise attack. The team decision was that we cannot afford an early DOW from Zara, so Warrior 3 will be fortified in Wheaton instead.

Discussion 2: Should worker 3 build a road on the GHill N-NE-NE of Delhi? We’ll eventually need to connect Wheaton to our empire and we have worker turn available now to build one segment. My current plan has two workers finishing this road once the Pyramids are complete. These two workers would then farm the Wheat and the plains tile 1S of it (1N of Wheaton) to provide irrigation to the wheat via Civil Service. This tile I am building a road on has only has one forest growth opportunity from the forest tile 1N of it. If we don’t build this road segment now, we will have to do it in about 10 turns, so we’d only lose about 10 turns of forest growth on this single tile. The alternative would be for this worker to pre-cottage (over the forest) the tile NE of Delhi such that it would be quicker to finish this cottage once the forest has been chopped. Team consensus was to go ahead and build the road now.

Discussion 3: Should we break our “rule” of binary research to learn Math 1 turn earlier? The difference is getting the Pyramids on T133 or T134. This may or may not be a big difference, but in general, the sooner we can start working Representation-powered specialists (which should make up for some of the loss) and the sooner we’ll get our next great person. I think it’s a fair tradeoff. Other than Dhoomstriker, the team is comfortable with breaking our binary research rule for 2 turns in order to get Math 1 turn sooner.

Discussion 4: Should we whip the Temple in Delhi to get the Pyramids two turns sooner (one turn sooner if we choose not to break our binary research rule). In having played many test games, Delhi grows very fast, gaining one pop every 3 or 4 turns. If we go for a Great Prophet as our next great person, we can only run 2 specialists anyway, so having one less citizen in Delhi isn’t a big deal as we can grow quickly. Having the Pyramids two turns sooner (a safer date) and having access to a Representation sooner are worth using the whip in my opinion. This was the most contentious issue. However, even after whipping the temple, we have plans to meet our next objectives, which include settling the west and getting a quick great person (GPro?) from Delhi. I will whip the temple as planned.

EDIT: Here are the detailed MM actions and a screen shot so that you can follow the worker actions.

Spoiler :

Screen Shot:

Spoiler :

Turn 120/750 (1000 BC)
Cancel actions of Worker 1, Worker 3 and Worker 4, all of whom are building a cottage 1S of Bedrock.
Delhi: move citizen from the PHill mine to the GRiv farm. Citizens (6) are working 2 Corn, Copper, cottage, GRiv farm and GHill mine.
Remove the “Mids” sign on the PHill Forest E-E-NE of Delhi. In a test game, I accidentally chopped this forest, which is outside Delhi’s BFC. As a result, I could not complete the Pyramids on T133.
Math: 47 beakers
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 20 per turn, 169 in the bank

After End Turn:
Riverdale's borders expand

Turn 121/750 (975 BC)
Set research to 10%
Move settler to the Oasis tile.
Delhi: Whip Granary (130/90 hammers) for 2 pops – Citizens (4) work 2 Corn, Copper and cottage
Riverdale: Whip Granary (109/90 hammers) for 1 pop – Citizen works the most mature cottage
Workers 1, Worker 3 and Worker 4 move W-SW of Bedrock and begin cottage on flood plains tile.
Worker 2 builds cottage 1W of Riverdale.
Math: 48 beakers
10% Research: 3 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
90% Gold: 11 per turn, 189 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Delhi
The whip was applied in Riverdale
Delhi finishes: Granary
A Hamlet was built near Delhi
Riverdale grows to size 2
Riverdale finishes: Granary

Turn 122/750 (950 BC)
Set research to 100%
Delhi: Complete Granary. Set build to Pyramids. 92 hammers total this turn.
Riverdale: Complete Granary. Continue building Confucian Temple.
Riverdale: Move new citizen from farm to cottage. City is now working 2 cottages.
Wheaton: Settle 1N of the Oasis. Set build to Granary. Citizen works the Oasis tile.
Warrior 3 moves 1S into Wheaton and is fortified there.
Stop Worker 3’s action at the end of the turn.
Math: 52 beakers
Delhi begins: The Pyramids (69 turns)
Wheaton founded
Wheaton begins: Granary (90 turns)
100% Research: 41 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -21 per turn, 200 in the bank

Turn 123/750 (925 BC)
Delhi: Switch build from Pyramids to Confucian Temple (for 1 turn only).
Delhi: Pyramids (92 hammers)
Worker 3 moves to cottage the flood plains 1S of Bedrock. Stop his action.
Math: 102 beakers
A Cottage was built near Bedrock
Delhi begins: Confucian Temple (11 turns)
100% Research: 41 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -21 per turn, 179 in the bank

After End Turn:
Delhi grows to size 5
Bedrock grows to size 2

Turn 124/750 (900 BC)
Delhi: Switch build from partial Confucian Temple (11 hammers) to the Pyramids (92 hammers)
Delhi: Grows to 5 pops. Citizens work 2 Corn, Copper, GRiv farm and cottage.
Bedrock: Grows to 2 pops. Citizens work 2 cottaged flood plains.
Worker 1 and Worker 4 move to cottage the flood plains 1S of Bedrock.
Worker 3 moves to the PFor N-NW of Delhi and chop/stop.
Math: 152 beakers
Delhi begins: The Pyramids (60 turns)
A Cottage was built near Riverdale
100% Research: 44 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -21 per turn, 158 in the bank

After End Turn:
A Hamlet was built near Riverdale

Turn 125/750 (875 BC)
Delhi: Pyramids (103 hammers)
Worker 2 moves W (W-W of Riverdale) and chop/stop.
Worker 3 moves E (N-N of Delhi) and chop/stop.
Math: 206 beakers
A Cottage was built near Bedrock
100% Research: 45 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -21 per turn, 137 in the bank

After End Turn:
Delhi grows to size 6

Turn 126/750 (850 BC)
Delhi: Grows to 6 pops. Citizens work 2 Corn, Copper, GRiv farm, cottage and GHill mine.
Delhi: Pyramids (114 hammers)
Worker 1 and Worker 4 move to the PFor N-NW of Delhi and chop/stop.
Worker 2 moves NW and chop/stop.
Worker 3 moves E (N-NE of Delhi) and chop/stop
Math: 261 beakers
100% Research: 46 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -21 per turn, 116 in the bank

Turn 127/750 (825 BC)
Delhi: Pyramids (132 hammers)
Worker 1 moves SW (W-NW of Delhi) and chop/stop.
Worker 2 moves SW-W (GHillFor E-E of Delhi).
Worker 3 moves NE (N-NE-NE of Delhi) and builds a road.
Worker 4 moves E (N-N of Delhi) and chop/stop.
Math: 317 beakers
100% Research: 46 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -21 per turn, 95 in the bank

Turn 128/750 (800 BC)
Delhi: Pyramids (150 hammers)
Delhi: Growth in 1 turn. Move citizen from GHill mine to PHill mine for the needed 1 extra hammer. This exchanges 1F for 1H, which allows us to finish the Pyramids on T133 with 0 overflow.
Worker 1 (W-NW of Delhi) chop/stop.
Worker 2 (E-E of Delhi) chop.
Worker 4 (N-N of Delhi) chop/stop. Forest can now be chopped in 1 turn.
Math: 373 beakers
100% Research: 46 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -21 per turn, 74 in the bank

After End Turn:
Delhi grows to size 7
Riverdale finishes: Confucian Temple

Turn 129/750 (775 BC)
Delhi: Pyramids (170 hammers)
Delhi: Grows to 7 pops. Citizens work 2 Corn, Copper, GRiv farm, cottage, GHill mine and PHill mine.
Riverdale: Completes Confucian Temple. Set build to Library.
Worker 1 (W-NW of Delhi) chop/stop. Forest can now be chopped in 1 turn.
Worker 3 completes the road N-NE-NE of Delhi.
Worker 4 moves SE (NE of Delhi) and chop/stop.
Math: 429 beakers
Riverdale begins: Library (135 turns)
100% Research: 47 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -20 per turn, 53 in the bank

After End Turn:
A Hamlet was built near Bedrock

Turn 130/750 (750 BC)
Delhi: Pyramids (197 hammers)
Worker 1 moves S (W-W of Delhi) and chop/stop.
Worker 3 moves SW-S (NE of Delhi) and pre-build cottage/stop.
Worker 4 (NE of Delhi) chop/stop.
Math: 486 beakers
100% Research: 48 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -20 per turn, 33 in the bank

Turn 131/750 (725 BC)
Set research to 80%. Math in 1 turn.
Check autolog to ensure that the Pyramids have not been completed.
Delhi: Switch build to Confucian Temple and whip 2 pops (41 hammers overflow) . Citizens (5) work 2 Corn, Copper, GRiv farm and cottage.
Delhi: Pyramids (224 hammers)
Worker 1 (W-W of Delhi) chop/stop.
Worker 2 (E-E of Delhi) chop/stop.
Worker 3 (NE of Delhi) and build a cottage over the forest. Stop action.
Worker 4 (NE of Delhi) chop/stop.
Math: 544 beakers
Delhi begins: Confucian Temple (5 turns)
80% Research: 37 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -13 per turn, 13 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Delhi
Tech research finished: Mathematics
Delhi grows to size 6
Delhi finishes: Confucian Temple

Turn 132/750 (700 BC)
Learn Math. Set research to Civil Service.
Set research to 0%
Check autolog to ensure that the Pyramids have not been completed.
Delhi: Pyramids (224 hammers)
Delhi: Completes the Confucian Temple. Build changes back to the Pyramids.
Check to make sure that the following 4 forests can all be chopped in 1 turn: W-NW, N-N, NE and E-E (all relative to Delhi).
Worker 1 moves N!! (I forgot to do this in one test game and ended up pre-chopping the tile W-W of Delhi rather than completing the chop W-NW of Delhi. That is why I’m putting it in my PPP twice.
Worker 1 moves N and completes the chop W-NW of Delhi
Worker 2 completes the chop E-E of Delhi
Worker 3 moves NW and completes the chop N-N of Delhi.
Worker 4 completes the chop NE of Delhi.
Delhi: Delhi grows to 6. Citizens work 2 Corn, Copper, cottage, GHill mine and PHill mine. This should provide 526 total hammers (including forest chops and whip overflow) on this turn. Ensure that the Pyramids will be completed on this turn.
Research begun: Civil Service (36 Turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 23 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Delhi finishes: The Pyramids
A Hamlet was built near Riverdale
Bedrock grows to size 3
Wheaton grows to size 2

Turn 133/750 (675 BC)
Delhi: Completes the Pyramids. Set build to Confucian Missionary as a place holder. Citizens (6) work 2 Corn, Copper, cottage, GRiv farm and priest.
Bedrock: Grows to 3 pops. Ensure citizens are working 3 flood plains cottages.
Wheaton: Grows to 2 pops. Second citizen is temporarily put on the PFor. We may revolt to Caste System this turn, in which case he would likely become an artist.
End turnset.

A special shout-out goes to Irgy for figuring out how to complete the Pyramids on T133!!