As for Toku, I don't see any reason to cater to him in particular. If we share religion and gift a few techs, he will be a happy camper anyway. He is unlikely to be the most useful trader of the bunch anyway .
Toku's important to cater to because he's very difficult to get Open Borders with. Without gifting a city, Toku is very hard to get to those further bonuses that Open Borders enables. I agree he won't be much of a tech trader - this is more to get the ball rolling on diplo points, for UN voting.
We should try to make everyone unhappy with Isabella, rather than unhappy with Zara (we are Zara's land target, after all). Not sure how to do that - maybe it's worth doing some Stop Trading With Isabella bribes.
Good round Fluro. cas is next. Then whoever's ready - either orb or me?
P.S. I've updated the stickies with Fluro's information.
ok, looked over the save. I have a general idea of what to do, but have some questions before moving forward. I tried to organize my questions and thoughts below. I would suggest everyone look at the save since it's been a while since most of us have played it (other than Fluro).
Diplo: do we want to switch to Hindu yet ?
Hindu switch gets us diplo bonus with Just/Salad/Toku but also removes friendly from Zara. Zara has a 90% peace probability at pleased, so there is a slight chance of attack from him if we switch. Right now, we are running a chance of attack from the other three though (all cautious with us).
do we want to switch to Theo yet
Gets fav civic bonus with Justin/Saladin/Zara. OR is helping a little bit in Dehli, Bombay, and Varanasi with +25% building bonus under Confu. And with OR we can build Hindu missionaries without a monastery which is very useful for a little while longer.
I'm thinking of using Pataliputra and Calcutta (after settler) to heavy whip several missionaries and try to spread them to Zara's 5 core cities...then bribe him to switch to Hindu with us ? Opinions ?
trades
Saladin will trade hunting+70g for calendar. I think this is a good one even though he is already at +4 trade bonus ?
I assume we are holding back MC for something like Aesthetics ? I doubt we can get Justin to friendly to trade Aesthetics right now...even if we switch to Hindu+Theo. We could trade MC for contruction and gold, but I don't think that is worth it.
Wonders
The following wonders are available to build. Anyone think we should pursue any of them ? AngWat - Hag Sop - Chich Itza crazyeye - MoM - AP
I'm not in favor of any of them...just wanted to throw it out there for discussion.
builds
I assume we are slow-building the forges for now...not overusing the whip in core cities where we can work improved tiles and run extra sci/mer specs when we switch in/out of caste-slavery ?
------------------
We don't have courthouses anywhere and the maintenance is hurting a bit. Do we prioritize these after the forges in some of the cities ?
cities
Dehli - granary (partial overflow from whip) - then what ? the temple isn't needed quite yet, but we could build Hindu missionaries or Hindu monastery for +science or market for +gold. I'd probably go granary - missionary - monastery - temple if that doesn't stunt growth with the late temple.
Bombay - forge, then probably wb for the fish/horse/incense city. maybe extra galley to transport workers to Lahore and explore?
Vija - forge - then courthouse maybe ?
Pata - currently building lighthouse, but see my note in the diplo section about possibly whipping hindu missionaries since this city is the only Hindu city other than Dehli.
Vara - forge - then could use temples or a courthouse. would probably prioritize temples here since it is very food heavy.
Calcutta - finish settler - then what ? library to run 2 specs ? forge ? secondary Hindu whip city after Pata ?
Lahore - will be a while before this is productive. granary.
fish/horse/incense city soon - granary
tech
Paper -> Edu possible side diversion for Music if the trades work out for Aesthetics / Lit. Is it worth researching Lit ourselves ?
Side notes:
We are almost out of room to settle as Fluro said. Basically there is room for the fish/horse/incense city and one filler...and I see no reason to hurry to settle the last filler which is completely surrounded by our borders and we can use the forest to chop universities or other things in main cities.
I would prefer to get another worker up to Lahore...it would make a decent city once the jungle is gone. Our only galley is now committed to exploring west.
We are really going to be hurting for GS if we intend to bulb physics + electricity to get radio from liberalism.
I would like some feedback before I dive into actual playing. I already made a couple of resource trade changes but that is all I've done so far.
Okay, minor comments (without looking at the save yet)
I suggest we hold off on Theo until asked to change; agreeing to change civics will squeeze out an extra diplo point or two.
Converting Zara to Hinduism would be very helpful for diplo (and securing our border), but sounds like a lot of hammers. How many cities do we need to make Hindu before we can bribe him into converting? (Note we need to save a tech to trade to him to do the religion change)
Saladin will trade hunting+70g for calendar. I think this is a good one even though he is already at +4 trade bonus ?
I wouldn't do this trade - Calendar is worth about 400 beakers and that's much more than hunting + 70 gold, especially since we're not getting any more trade bonus.
When did we last beg? Maybe we can extract the gold from Saladin by begging.
Not in favour of any of the wonders. We'd like a Hindu to build AP, but it doesn't have to be us. It would suck if Zara built it in Confucianism though.
I generally only build courthouses if maintenance is >6 gpt.
I think it is possible to convert Zara to hinduism. His Christian holy city is on an island, so I don't expect him to spread it around. We should get a missionary to that island too, so that he will have hinduism in all his cities.
If we do this, then getting the missionaries to Zara takes priority over converting our own cities. However, converting Vijay to help produce missionaries first is probably a good idea.
If we aim to convert Zara, then we will need OR for missionaries. But Theo for diplo bonuses is DEFINITELY more valuable than the hammer bonus alone. We are SPI, so just switch whenever we are not producing missonaries any more.
We also don't really need to spread hindu to all our own cities at priority. We can let a city build monastary->missonaries in theology once the push to convert zara is over.
-Actually, we need to make sure our target university cities get it so we can whip them with OR bonus.
Saladin will trade hunting+70g for calendar. I think this is a good one even though he is already at +4 trade bonus ?
We can probably beg the gold once he gets pleased from hinduism (right away). Hunting is best avoided so that we still can build warriors.
I assume we are holding back MC for something like Aesthetics ? I doubt we can get Justin to friendly to trade Aesthetics right now...even if we switch to Hindu+Theo. We could trade MC for contruction and gold, but I don't think that is worth it.
Construction has little value now, so I don't think we should begin trading around MC. I think we can get him friendly relatively soon, at least before we finish education.
We should also remember the long term plan of lib->radio. All things considered, we should not advance the AI unless really necessary.
I assume we are slow-building the forges for now...not overusing the whip in core cities where we can work improved tiles and run extra sci/mer specs when we switch in/out of caste-slavery ?
Just go with what seems reasonable. It is best to run specs over mines whenever it is a non-priority build. And scientists GPfarm -merchants elsewhere. Make sure to avoid running any at all in Bombay. Delhi needs to pop that engineer for UN. If it fails in 6? turns, then we need to figure out a way to do it.
Dehli - granary (partial overflow from whip) - then what ? the temple isn't needed quite yet, but we could build Hindu missionaries or Hindu monastery for +science or market for +gold. I'd probably go granary - missionary - monastery - temple if that doesn't stunt growth with the late temple.
Monastary after granary. Delhi needs to focus on multipliers. Only make sure to get the temple before growing into unhappiness. The other cities will have to deal with the missionaries.
I was thinking that since all of the theology lovers will be easy to get votes from, we should work on Toku, since he likes impractical mercantilism. Getting a resource trade/gift going will get us extra points down the road.
We are really going to be hurting for GS if we intend to bulb physics + electricity to get radio from liberalism.
Maybe... We sure need that GP farm to squeeze out as many scientist points as possible. But getting a GE is probably worth 4-5 scientists in turns saved in the end.
When did we last beg? Maybe we can extract the gold from Saladin by begging.
If Fluro begged from Zara just 10 turns ago it's unlikely that Zara's counter has decayed away enough.
If cas has attempted a beg now then we should reset the counter to this turn, and try again every 25-30 turns (asking for 70-90 gp seems to work for me).
(BTW a beg attempt counts as a modification to the game state, and we should be saving after that attempt)
Ok. I was going to play a few more turns but I think here is a good spot to stop. I uploaded the save, so the next person can take it after we have some discussion. The diplo situation with Zara is very risky right now. Quite a bit to report.
First, we did get an engineer out of Dehli.
I held off switching to Hindu for a few turns because I'm very concerned about Zara attacking us. I've managed the diplo situation pretty good with the others, but if Zara attacks, the game will be a lost cause. I suggest we switch back to Confu for a little while...or possibly switch to Theo in a couple of turns* (see below for missionary question / whip plan). He went from 'friendly' to 'pleased' when we switched to Hindu. Now he just switched to 'cautious' and has this small SoD to our south plus a couple of catapults floating around:
Rejected two demands early in my turnset:
1) Isa demanded Theo. Rejected so hopefully AP would be Hindu. Saladin obliged.
2) Saladin demanded CoL. Rejected and took the -1 diplo hit. Didn't want to trade it yet.
Traded HBR to Isa for 50g. +4 diplo moved her to cautious and allowed OB next turn. I had reversed direction on the wb exploring south and it is now exploring east:
Saladin built AP and the vote came up. I voted for Toku, which gave +2 diplo and allowed OB. Toku was blocking our exploration west. The galley is exploring that direction:
Made some resource trades. We are now trading 2 resources to both Toku and Justin for eventual +diplo bonus:
Here is the tech and wonder situation. Saladin built AP. Toku built MoM. The AI is starting to ramp up tech. Islam was also founded:
Hindu missionaries:
We can't spread Hindu to Zara ourselves because Zara is in Theo. I forgot about that. We have 3 Hindu missionaries right now. One is at his capital, one in Lalibela, and the third headed that direction. If we gift the missionaries, can he spread Hindu himself ? I've always been confused about that. If he will spread Hindu with gifted missionaries, I think we follow this plan:
1) gift the two at his cities this turn
2) gift the third next turn once in his borders
3) whip 2 more Hindu missionaries in Patal and Vijay before switching civics to caste...then gift those also
If he won't use gifted missionaries to spread Hindu to his cities, then I guess we just turn them around and use them for our cities. It will be impossible to switch Zara out of Theo unless it is done with espionage.
City builds:
Dehli - building Hindu monastery then Hindu temple. working all cottages (even over silver) so pop and the cottages will grow faster.
Bombay - finished forge, building wealth
Varanasi - grew to happy problems, so I whipped the forge and started a temple. once we switch to caste, this city should have as many scientists as possible so we get a GS asap. I would like to use the GS to partial bulb education for faster Universities/Oxford.
Vija - chopped one forest (mine) and finished forge. Whipped one Hindu missionary and now building a workboat for Madras. If Zara will use gifted missionaries, we should whip another Hindu missionary here in the next couple of turns before switching to caste
Patal - finishing lighthouse. If Zara will use gifted missionaries, whip one here (2pop) in the next couple of turns. Then either forge or library I guess.
Calcutta - can whip a forge at size 8. growing very fast. then probably library ->uni
Lahore - building granary...can probably whip it in the next turnset
Madras (fish/horse/incense) - have not been in caste since it was founded to pop borders. upon switch to caste, work artist to pop borders to we can get the fish asap
workers
I pre-chopped a lot of the forest for use on eventual universities for Oxford and improved tiles as needed. Lots of land to farm/improve around Varanasi/Vijay.
tech
Finished paper, switch to 0% tech slider for a few turns. Back on 100% for a couple of turns on Education...I don't want a LOT of gold sitting in our bank because the AI likes to demand it. We should try to pop a GS in Varanasi to bulb half of Education.
Small request
When exploring with a wb/galley (pre map-trading) please ENTER the AI cities along the coast...especially if they are on a hill...you get to see more inner-land space. It's a small thing, but it gives us a better picture of the AI land.
Turnset log:
Spoiler:
Here is your Session Turn Log from 35 BC to 130 AD:
Turn 171, 35 BC: Hinduism has spread in Delhi.
Turn 172, 20 BC: Gandhi adopts Caste System!
Turn 172, 20 BC: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Pataliputra. Work has now begun on Hindu Missionary.
Turn 172, 20 BC: Confucianism has spread in Lahore.
Turn 173, 5 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Delhi. Work has now begun on a Hindu Monastery.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Hinduism has spread in Vijayanagara.
Turn 175, 25 AD: You have discovered Paper!
Turn 176, 40 AD: Orville Wright (Great Engineer) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!
Turn 177, 55 AD: Gandhi converts to Hinduism!
Turn 177, 55 AD: Saladin adopts Vassalage!
Turn 177, 55 AD: Galileo Galilei (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 178, 70 AD: Gandhi adopts Slavery!
Turn 178, 70 AD: Madras has been founded.
Turn 178, 70 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Pataliputra. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 178, 70 AD: You have constructed a Forge in Varanasi. Work has now begun on a Confucian Temple.
Turn 179, 85 AD: Leaders of Hinduism have a vision of uniting all Hindu faithful under the The Apostolic Palace.
Turn 179, 85 AD: The Apostolic Palace has been built in a far away land!
Turn 180, 100 AD: Vijayanagara can hurry Hindu Missionary for 1? with 41? overflow and +1? for 28 turns.
Turn 180, 100 AD: Pataliputra has grown to size 3.
Turn 180, 100 AD: Varanasi has grown to size 9.
Turn 180, 100 AD: Bombay will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 180, 100 AD: Vijayanagara will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 180, 100 AD: Calcutta will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 180, 100 AD: Mausoleum of Maussollos has been built in a far away land!
Turn 180, 100 AD: Andrei Sakharov (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 180, 100 AD: The Apostolic Palace voting members have announced their decision: Apostolic Palace Election (Winner Proposes Apostolic Palace Resolutions) (Requires 84 of 212 Total Votes)
Turn 181, 115 AD: Bombay has grown to size 7.
Turn 181, 115 AD: Calcutta has grown to size 6.
Turn 181, 115 AD: Tokugawa has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 181, 115 AD: Zara Yaqob has 90 gold available for trade.
Turn 181, 115 AD: Tokugawa will trade Hunting
Turn 181, 115 AD: Tokugawa will trade Gold
Turn 181, 115 AD: Vijayanagara will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 181, 115 AD: Pataliputra will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 181, 115 AD: Islam has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 182, 130 AD: Delhi can hurry Hindu Monastery for 1? with 36? overflow and +1? for 18 turns.
Turn 182, 130 AD: Vijayanagara has grown to size 8.
Turn 182, 130 AD: Pataliputra has grown to size 4.
Zara will indeed spread hindu if we gift the missionaries.
Very much agree on burning a GS on education. How are we doing on preparations for whipping universities? -We need to designate the five cities that are going to whip/chop them. We need hinduism in those cities to get the cheaper whips with OR. And of course libraries.
Bombay might want to build barracks->spears. If we get a DOW from Zara, we will need spears vs those horses. 5-6 for safety should make us safe enough until we see the fist.
Theology might be a good idea to bring Zara back to pleased. But we probably need missionaries more. I think we can gamble a bit here.
Who is next? beestar? orb?
We are quite pressed for time, so whoever is ready should take over immediately.
Zara will indeed spread hindu if we gift the missionaries.
Very much agree on burning a GS on education. How are we doing on preparations for whipping universities? -We need to designate the five cities that are going to whip/chop them. We need hinduism in those cities to get the cheaper whips with OR. And of course libraries.
Bombay might want to build barracks->spears. If we get a DOW from Zara, we will need spears vs those horses. 5-6 for safety should make us safe enough until we see the fist.
Theology might be a good idea to bring Zara back to pleased. But we probably need missionaries more. I think we can gamble a bit here.
Who is next? beestar? orb?
We are quite pressed for time, so whoever is ready should take over immediately.
If we are going to gamble on a non-attack...then whoever is next should gift the two missionaries in Zara's lands...then immediately whip 2 more in Vijay and Patal. Then switch from OR/slavery to caste/Theo...I guess. I would prefer to just switch back to Confu for about 10 turns while we get Hinduism spread to Zara. Confu will put us at odds with the others for a bit, but Zara is our main threat of attack and confu gets him to pleased or friendly immediately without having to switch out of OR for building missionaries.
I avoided trading for Hunting (spears) so we could build more warriors, but it can be traded easily. If we switch to Confu, there isn't much need to build spears. There is a small chance the RNG has already decided Zara will attack, but not sure that is enough to waste hammers on barracks/spears at this point.
What is the time limit on this SGOTM ?
edit: oh, I see we only have a month left. Yes, we are running out of time. I can play another 10-15 turns pretty easy in the next 12 hours since I'm familiarized with the game again. Not that I'm being greedy, but I didn't realize the time limitation. We probably need to start plyaing longer turnsets. The delay always comes in the hand-off phase.
Orb/Beestar...let me know if you're going to take the save & play. I'll wait to hear from you before playing any more turns.
I vote that you play the extra turns, and that a default turnset is 20 turns from now on.
Do we have enough info to determine who will be our opponent in a diplo vote? Japan and Byzantine have the most cities. Or are we still aiming to build UN, then gift it to a small AI, presumably ethiopia or spain?
Ok. I'm picking up the save and running with it. I'll post for advice if anything crazy happens like Zara attacking.
I'm going to switch back to Confu for a little while and stay in OR for building/whipping more Hindu missionaries. Hopefully Zara will spread the gifted ones successfully.
Also will get 5 cities ready for building uni's for Oxford and (fingers crossed) pop a GS in Varanasi to partial bulb Education.
Keep exploring east and west until Isa/Toku close borders. We have at least a few more turns until the minimum 10turn initial agreement expires.
I will have time in the next 12hrs from this post. A lot of you are way east of me in the timezones, so it should be ready for someone else tomorrow (morning?) your time.
I assume Zara is not actually in WHEOOHRN, is that right? Still, we want him happy BEFORE he switches into WHEOOHRN, as it would be too late then. Let's follow your plan - we've deliberately played very light on military and we can't afford a war.
I support what was said above, that Zara will use gifted missionaries.
BTW, we very careful about trades with Worst Enemies. The trade of HBR to Isabella for 50 gp is great for relations, but if anyone has Isabella as their worst enemy, it will earn us demerits. We should feel OK trading with the Hindu bloc, but be very cautious about trading with Zara and Isabella until they join Hinduism.
BTW, we very careful about trades with Worst Enemies. The trade of HBR to Isabella for 50 gp is great for relations, but if anyone has Isabella as their worst enemy, it will earn us demerits. We should feel OK trading with the Hindu bloc, but be very cautious about trading with Zara and Isabella until they join Hinduism.
Ok. The rest of the turnset wasn't terrible, but I did a piss-poor job on the uni/Oxford micro. We should be 4-5 turns ahead of where we are with the Oxford build. The 6th uni in Agra was the hold-up. Looking back, I should have avoided the forge and went straight library->uni. And since I was in Confu, I should have spread that from Bombay first. And I mistimed the Dehli whip which should have overflowed a bunch of hammers into Oxford. Sorry everyone.
We met another AI (Mehmed). He was immediately annoyed with -4 traded worst enemy (Saladin) and -2 another religion status...so I couldn't get open borders. I did trade him meditation for 20g to get +trade bonus but he still wouldn't open borders. The wb is up there stuck between Isabella and Mehmed. Favorite Civic is vassalage and he is budhist, so this makes the diplo situation harder.
There are a lot of diplo/trade options to decide before the next turns set.
we are in Confu. Rep/Bure/Slavery/OR. I tried to beg 10g or hunting from Zara at the last turn, but he wouldn't do it. There hasn't been any tech I could trade him for +trade relations.
Diplo/trades Here are my suggestions:
1) Zara is willing to trade ivory for iron. We need happiness anyway, and I'm not sure he will trade it after we switch to Hindu.
2) Maybe trade CS to Zara before switching out of Confu. Saladin just switched to Bureacracy, so he already has CS. Not sure if we can trade it for machinery...then trade that around to the AI. Machinery will be useful for getting printing press. Or trade it cheap for +diplo points.
3) after deciding the two items above, switch to Hindu
4) switch to Theo/Caste. Hindu will move Zara to 'cautious' quick...Theo alleviates that. I've used the whip pretty liberal, so caste will be ok for a while.
5) immediately try to get Zara to switch to Hindu. I've spread Hindu (gifted missionaries) to his 5 mainland cities. A galley with a 6th missionary is on it's way to his island city Yeha. It will take some time to get there.
6) review the resource trades with the other AI after we are in Hindu.
7) review the tech trades after we are in Hindu. I'm not sure if anything will be available or not.
8) look at the worst enemies. I believe it was Mehmed/Saladin, Toku/Zara (could change after Hindu), and Isa/Just. It might be worth closing borders with Isa before Just demands it. Or just wait until he does. Isa already demanded to stop trading with Just and I declined.
Tech
I was able to bulb half of education with a GS from Varanasi. I debated self-researching Aesthetics (2 turns at 100% I think) and then literature to get the NE up faster, but decided against it. I put several turns of reserach into Liberalism because I know we need that and nothing else looked good. Depending what the AI is willing to trade after switching to Hindu, the next tech is up for debate.
City builds - needs some adjustments
Dehli - building Oxford. Should be further along. There were no trees left to chop. I did build a couple of mines and there are 3 workers down there right now. There is a half-finished Hindu missionary in the queue that will lose hammers soon, but it's unavoidable. Don't know if it is worth waiting to switch out of slavery to whip the missionary and use the overflow for Oxford.
Bombay - building wealth. Might be worth starting barracks.
Vija - building Jewish Temple. Maybe a courthouse next? 6.4gpt at size8.
Varanasi - just stuck it on research for a placeholder. needs to switch...maybe courthouse ? 7.3gpt. Also when you switch to caste, run scientists I left a couple of forest around it for eventual NEpic chops.
Calcutta - building forge. could whip before we switch out of slavery. Not sure what else to build here. It has a lot of food and no hammers.
Patal - building library. I whipped this city to death for the Hindu missionary spread. It will take a while to do much. Library seemed best. It does have a forest to chop.
Lahore - I moved a 2nd worker up there to help clear the jungle/mine. Whipped a granary. Lighthouse next ? Moai candidate with all that water.
Madras - whipped a granary 1 turn ago. Set to library because it has 2 incense but only a couple of hammers in it.
workers
3 around Dehli if we want to build more mines...but I don't think it will get Oxford much faster.
2 at Lahore will be busy for a while clearning jungle.
Others are farming around Vija/Vara.
west/east/resources/techs:
Turn log:
Spoiler:
Turn 182, 130 AD: Gandhi converts to Confucianism!
Turn 182, 130 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Pataliputra. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 182, 130 AD: Confucianism has spread in Madras.
Turn 182, 130 AD: Isabella adopts Theocracy!
Turn 183, 145 AD: Gandhi adopts Caste System!
Turn 186, 190 AD: The borders of Madras have expanded!
Turn 186, 190 AD: Alhazen (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 187, 205 AD: Aryabhata (Great Scientist) has been born in Varanasi (Gandhi)!
Turn 187, 205 AD: The Colossus has been built in a far away land!
Turn 188, 220 AD: You have discovered Education!
Turn 188, 220 AD: Gandhi adopts Slavery!
Turn 188, 220 AD: You have constructed a Confucian Temple in Varanasi. Work has now begun on a University.
Turn 188, 220 AD: You have constructed a Library in Calcutta. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 188, 220 AD: The borders of Lahore have expanded!
Turn 188, 220 AD: The Statue of Zeus has been built in a far away land!
Turn 190, 250 AD: You have constructed a University in Calcutta. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 191, 265 AD: You have trained Confucian Missionary in Bombay. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 191, 265 AD: You have constructed a University in Vijayanagara. Work has now begun on a Galley.
Turn 191, 265 AD: You have trained Hindu Missionary in Pataliputra. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 192, 280 AD: You have trained a Galley in Vijayanagara. Work has now begun on a Hindu Temple.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Confucianism has spread in Agra.
Turn 193, 295 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Madras. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 193, 295 AD: The Hagia Sophia has been built in a far away land!
Turn 194, 310 AD: Vijayanagara has grown to size 8.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Calcutta has grown to size 6.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Calcutta has become unhappy.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Calcutta can hurry Forge for 3? with 14? overflow and +1? for 39 turns.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Saladin has 100 gold available for trade.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Zara Yaqob has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Zara Yaqob is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Justinian I will trade Feudalism
Turn 194, 310 AD: Justinian I won't trade Construction
Turn 194, 310 AD: Delhi will grow to size 13 on the next turn.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Varanasi will grow to size 12 on the next turn.
Turn 194, 310 AD: You have constructed a University in Delhi. Work has now begun on Hindu Missionary.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Justinian I adopts Vassalage!
Turn 194, 310 AD: The Parthenon has been built in a far away land!
Turn 194, 310 AD: Saladin adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 195, 325 AD: Varanasi has grown to size 12.
Turn 195, 325 AD: Agra can hurry University for 2? with 32? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 195, 325 AD: Lahore can hurry Granary for 1? with 0? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 195, 325 AD: Zara Yaqob will trade Ivory
Turn 195, 325 AD: Pataliputra will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 195, 325 AD: You have constructed a Hindu Temple in Delhi. Work has now begun on Hindu Missionary.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Delhi can hurry Hindu Missionary for 1? with 34? overflow, 15? added to the treasury, and +1? for 28 turns.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Vijayanagara can hurry Jewish Temple for 1? with 18? overflow and +1? for 42 turns.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Pataliputra has grown to size 4.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Pataliputra can hurry Library for 2? with 26? overflow and +1? for 83 turns.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Calcutta has become happy.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Tokugawa has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Justinian I has 230 gold available for trade.
Turn 196, 340 AD: Tokugawa has 5 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 196, 340 AD: The borders of Varanasi are about to expand.
One way to get a faster Oxford since Dehli is a little hammer poor might be to use whip/pop overflow from different builds.
So maybe whip a Tao missionary in Agra...maybe a second in Calcutta before switching out of slavery, then spread it to Dehli. Have Dehli build one turn on a temple, then whip -> overflow to Oxford. Build one turn on a monastery, then whip -> overflow to Oxford. I think it is best to build one turn before whipping...maybe not.
Dehli needs as much science and happiness multipliers as possible anyway. It would take a short-term hit to the population working cottages and beakers though.
Had a quick look at the save, some preliminary thoughts:
Resources and Map
Ivory: toku, zara
Fur: not yet seen
Silk: not yet seen
Dye: isabella 2 visible, mehmed 1 visible. Neither has Calendar.
Can buy Justinian's world map for 80 gp - would be useful for locating the target resources, strategic planning, and circumnavgatin.
Diplo
We are worst enemy of Isabella and Mehmed. They are distant and backwards so OK for now.
Isabella: doesn't like us, maybe can be pushed into disliking Saladin (by trading with us, her worst enemy)
Mehmed: doesn't like us, maybe can be pushed into disliking Toku or Justy. Bribe him into +4 by donating CoL, then buy his map?
Justinian: doesn't like us, Mehmed
Saladin: doesn't like Mehmed
Zara: doesn't like Toku, Mehmed.
Toku: doesn't like Saladin, Zara. Worst enemy: Zara (this is only one Worst Enemy active except us)
Tech trading
Everyone else is a techno peasant, and I would start trading away some techs to pick up gold, maps, and diplo points. Code of Laws is a good choice; the AI tends to prioritize it so it will be teched anyway, and it's not a big threat to us (Other options to trade away are worse: Metal Casting, Paper, Currency, Philo. We should try to keep the AI away from Liberalism and Free Religion).
Zara is risky to trade with because he's Toku's worst enemy, and Toku is a PAIN to get happy with. But Zara is a tech leader with Machinery and Construction. Getting Zara into Hinduism is important so he can be our rich, tech-advanced buddy (and an unthreatening neighbour!)
Future
We are heading toward Mehmed and Isabella being the unpopular Buddhist bloc. However, they appear to hold the Dye resources. Mehmed will trade resources at Annoyed, for example, but if we maintain trades with them, we will acquire demerits from our Hindu friends for not cancelling trades. We should come up with a plan when we have a clearer picture of the resources.
Might be a good time to start gearing up for war now. It looks we will have to obtain dye by means of war. Target->Isabella, which will not bother anyone except Mehmed.
If we could somehow make Mehmed the UN opponent, that would be ideal. Maybe we could capture Isabellas border cities, and let Mehmed recapture them (if we can get him to DOW us)
Either way, assimilating some cities to use for pop and specs won't hurt either.
There are several cities that can switch to military buildup. Barracks->catapults (trade for construction if we don't have it yet), then maces when we get machinery. Mace/cat should suffice until she reaches guilds.
We definitely need to get back to hindu right away. And theo/caste as soon as Oxford is done.
0% research until Oxford too!
We need to figure out if we can get a hindu with aesthetics to friendly quickly, else we should probably go down that route ourselves.
If not self-researching the music path, we obviously need to head for Printing Press (trade for Machinery). Alternatively, we can put beakers into gunpowder.
I don't see any reason to change from a liberalism->radio plan. Whoever plays next (beestar?) must make absolutely sure not to finish liberalism by accident!
Another thing: We must make sure electricity is bulbable once we get there. IIRC, some other techs in the era take priority. (Biology? Astro?)
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crazyeye
Sorry everyone.
