SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element

BLubmuz · Dec 11, 2010

Fluroscent said:
The lesser cities can easily get their required builds with mining+slavery. And then building wealth they will be hugely profitable.

(...)

Sushi should be selective, to cities that can use the growth properly.

Mining Inc will reduce the use of slavery. I think it can be better to use Caste while building wealth (run merchants if not good tiles to work). With MI all the buildings you listed take no time, no reason to whip citizens which can be merchants.

I also will check how many monasteries we have. If we run Pacifism or FR we need some.

Sure Sushi has to be selective, provided we can pop a GM. And our NE city without Caste can't do it.

Fluroscent · Dec 11, 2010

Caste may be good, but I'd delay it as long as possible since slavery is great to have in order to whip captured cities. They often come with big pop and starving due to lack of culture, so slavery is a great way to get a CH/forge or whatever is missing.
Maybe switch to caste as part of the last civic change in the GA.

BLubmuz · Dec 11, 2010

Fluroscent said:
Caste may be good, but I'd delay it as long as possible since slavery is great to have in order to whip captured cities. They often come with big pop and starving due to lack of culture, so slavery is a great way to get a CH/forge or whatever is missing.
Maybe switch to caste as part of the last civic change in the GA.

I think this can be the way to go.

I'll play in 4-5 hours from now unless anyone screams. I think it's clear what i have to do in the following 10 turns.

Fingers crossed for a GE in 5 turns.

BLubmuz · Dec 12, 2010

Yesterday night i started very late and after some few adjustements here and there, mainly to builds, hit enter and found this:
English borders expanded to isolate Hangzou and to the doors of Chengdu.
I expected an expansion of English borders, but not of this extension.

Now, some extimated time: 2 turns to take Shangai. Then, if we do not take Beijing it will drop drastically. No less than 4 more turns to take Beijing, then 2 more to moving units South, not counting the time to heal. 4 more turns to arrive at the doors of Hastings.
Then, if the war goes very well, no less than 12 turns to take London.
We can't delay the Taj for such a long time.

In addition, Beijing can be threatened by sea as Rheims.

So, i propose the following: let's retreat the "Shangai attackers" immediately and start the English war once they are inside our borders.

We need to keep a good garrison in Chengdu and to park the fresh troops in Rheims expecting some landing there. I'd like to use the 2 HAs now in MP in 2 new cities and build LBs for those and for Moscow and StPete. With Galleons around, they aren't safe defended by unpromoted warrriors.

This is why i don't want to renounce to 5 turns of GAge just to take 2 cities we can more easily take later.

I think the best thing is retreat the troops from "China", but wait to negotiate peace until the iceball is settled, hoping to take some unit in the field.

I got some more variations to propose. I spent a lot of time thinking what to do, then i realized that i need consensus not only for the war strategy:

- Chinese iceball: 1 south of where Fluro located it. We save 1 turn on settling the city and 1 more of the missionary. I think it's a waste to not spread there. French borders already covered the Iron.
- Small island city: on the hill marked for fort/canal. If we build a fort there, we simply lose the hill for production and also the worker turns needed for the fort. Settling there will let a workshop or a cottage where the city is marked and the 2 tiles North are better worked by the "platform city". So, moving this city 1SW changes basically nothing in terms of sea tiles, but gains 1 GL tile and saves WTs.
- Coal city: 1E of where is marked. It gains immediate access to the Coal and to Copper in first border expansion.
- Chengdu: it will produce nothing. Better switch to a library we can maybe whip before the city drops too much, to avoid waste population for nothing.
- Hangzou: whip the CH ASAP, for the same reason.

I'm sorry to not have posted last night, but it was very late. If i can see enough answers i can play in 10-11 hours from now.

Fluroscent · Dec 12, 2010

Don't worry about sea invasions. The AI does not do this when there is land access.
And only Roosevelt has Astro anyway right? He is busy right now with the war against China.
OK with not attacking more chinese cities. But still make sure to gather the stack before DOW.

Why not take peace immediately? The troops will be expelled from the territory and thus be ready against Churchill quicker. We can gift the iceball when we settle it anyway, or delay settling it, particularly if the knight is up there.

Iceball location: I placed it there so it would have no workable tiles. Your suggestion will leave it a 2H square, which means he might get around to expanding at some point.

Agree with rest. Please put priority on connecting coal, so we can get started on the railroads. The worker already over there should go work on it immediately (road/scrub). Railroads are also the best way to deal with invasion threats anyway.

BLubmuz · Dec 12, 2010

Fluroscent said:
Don't worry about sea invasions. The AI does not do this when there is land access.
And only Roosevelt has Astro anyway right? He is busy right now with the war against China.
OK with not attacking more chinese cities. But still make sure to gather the stack before DOW.

Sure, but Hangzou will still be exposed... we need to declare to move near it and we have no ships around.

Why not take peace immediately? The troops will be expelled from the territory and thus be ready against Churchill quicker. We can gift the iceball when we settle it anyway, or delay settling it, particularly if the knight is up there.

I thought to this option, maybe is the way to go

Iceball location: I placed it there so it would have no workable tiles. Your suggestion will leave it a 2H square, which means he might get around to expanding at some point.

OK, let's not be greedy... i'll follow your plan.

Agree with rest. Please put priority on connecting coal, so we can get started on the railroads. The worker already over there should go work on it immediately (road/scrub). Railroads are also the best way to deal with invasion threats anyway.

I'll see for the coal. Railroads needs 8 turns at full speed, so some 15 actually.

I think i'll build some harbor, mainly in Rheims.

There i go, i don't think many other will post. This time the team is too quiet for my taste. If not for us this thread would be a desert (sorry guys, this is the plain thruth).

I take now the choice to say that teaming with you, Fluro is a real pleasure. We interact well.

BLubmuz · Dec 12, 2010

First half played.
So, i went as per the modified plan. Highlights:
As i already posted (but just to have the complete report) after some few adjustements, to build 2 more settlers and a missionary for the iceball i've seen English borders isolate Hangzou and arrive to the doors of Chengdu.
I've seen also that Chur completed Angor Wat. In London.
So, on turn 221 Mao offered his WM and Theo for peace. Our units were expelled from his territory in or near Chengdu. The 3 units near Hangzou luckily were expelled in the city.
On turn 225 our GE is born in Rostov and he's now waiting in StPete.
The iceball is settled and confucian, but Mao won't take it. He will be surely glad to do so after we take his Capital, so we have to plan another break.
After a long battle Hastings fell on turn 229. Lost 1 cannon and 1 mace at impossible odds.

In the IBT after i declared, he sent a stack (expected) mainly of siege to Hangzou and we lost a couple units. Next turn the city was secured by 4-5 cannons and some musket. For some stupid reason he does not sent some non-siege unit or could have taken the city easily. I could have take it back next turn, but ...
As expected Chur sent a stack of 5 galleys to land in 3 waves (not clear why, since they were stacked) near Rheims. Not the time to breath and they were wiped.
I builf a caravel in Rostov to avoid the galleys could pass the peninsula S of Rheims. It was attacked by 2 caravels, won the first, lose with the 2nd. Now there's another one.
All our starting zone is nuclear free and fully improved. I built some windmill and a watermill instead of a cottage. After Electricity it performs almost like a mature cottage.
I built 2 LBs in Moscow and sent the warriors in the new cities. I used the HAs there to garrison Rheims.

The coal city (Magadan) is settled and the hill is roaded and will be scrubbed in 4 turns, then 3 for the mine. Maybe less, since i'm using 2 galleys and i plan to ferry another worker there.
But no delay, or not much on railroads, the tech is 3 turns away at full speed, actually 4.

Now there's a corridor of 2 tiles S of Hastings and i already sent all the non injured or lightly injured units (5) on the hill 2W+1N of York, defended by 3 LBs and a cross at present 1 tile from the city. And 3 more are 1 tile behind.

If everything goes well London can fall on turn 238-239. I'll try to time the Taj accordingly. Not much time left, all the AIs have Nationalism but G.

Roos got frigates.
Autolog part 1

Spoiler :

For next part the research path is clear (finish rail, Astro, Rifling) but i doubt i can finish Astro. If the war takes longer i hope you agree to let me play some few turns more until London falls. And our GAge starts.

BLubmuz · Dec 12, 2010

And Autolog part 2

Spoiler :

beestar · Dec 12, 2010

Hey, <10 hours was pretty short to offer comments. With the Christmas holidays approaching I'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation.

I was a bit confused by the summary. Do I understand correctl that after we declared, England attacked us at Hangzhou but we repelled the attack ("Next turn the city was secured [by us?] by 4-5 cannons and some musket."). And at Rheims, forces landed succssfully, but we wiped them out?

Does Roosevelt have Chemistry as well? If so, we may need units to defend against Privateers.

P.S. "Chin-Chun-Ball"?

BLubmuz · Dec 12, 2010

beestar said:
Hey, <10 hours was pretty short to offer comments. With the Christmas holidays approaching I'm not sure that's a reasonable expectation.

Probably you're right. In any case, since i wasn't actually expenting more than a couple commets i played right after seen Fluro's post. It was a long half-TS and i has time.

BTW, i let to my wife and my daughter the most of Xmas duties, so i'm not much busy on that side

I was a bit confused by the summary. Do I understand correctl that after we declared, England attacked us at Hangzhou but we repelled the attack ("Next turn the city was secured [by us?] by 4-5 cannons and some musket."). And at Rheims, forces landed succssfully, but we wiped them out?

Does Roosevelt have Chemistry as well? If so, we may need units to defend against Privateers.

P.S. "Chin-Chun-Ball"?

It was a long post, maybe i wasn't so clear. But you got it right.
Chur attacked Hangzou with a lot of siege and we lost the Xbow and a WE, attacked by the only non-siege units. I think some warriors can have conquered the city. He kept some 12 LBs in Hastings along with some mixed unit.

I has a stack of 4-5 cannons and some musket 1N of the city, so i could have took it back easily. When i said "secured" i meant that at that point (next turn, when i moved the units in) the city was safe.

Then i moved the attackers (no more defenders) to block the 2 tiles E of Hastings, while another stack arrived straight from Chengdu. With all those cannons we lack other units.
That's why i'm building knights. They're great for mop up and for fight in the open, 'cause they can move back to the stack or to the city.
I needed 3 turns to take Hastings 'cause i has not enough non-siege units. With more knights, maces and muskets i could have saved 1 turn. Chur kept there the monster stack Fluro supposed he has.

Rheims: yes, of course they landed successfully, we don't have a navy! But they were wiped right after the landing.

Yes, Roos has frigates and galleons. And he can have privateers, too. After Astro we must set CI to naval builds.

Chin-Chun-Ball? do you like it? it means nothing, but it have a nice chinese sound... maybe :lol:

In any case we can take the city W of Beijing and be on American borders. We can then make peace, give Mao the iceball and attack Roos. With the reinforcements we can then let him with his nice iceball.

unclethrill · Dec 12, 2010

I promise I haven't lost interest. I am just trying to put an end to the semester from HELL!!

Looks like all is well in the game except that Roos is teching like hell. We need to kill him soon!

Fluroscent · Dec 12, 2010

Hmm, so we are stuck with an iceball until after we take out Churchill, and go back to Mao? Or what is the status?
In that case, I think we should gift the city to De Gaulle and settle a new iceball later for Mao. No point paying maintenance for an iceball for a lot of turns...

Please rifling before astro. Rifling and then set CI to build some rifles, along with 3-4 other cities will be needed to take Roosevelt more than naval force. Then after astro we want a stack of frigates from CI.

Taj: Make it 1 turn from complete asap. That way Moscow can be free to build executives when available.

BLubmuz · Dec 12, 2010

Fluroscent said:
Hmm, so we are stuck with an iceball until after we take out Churchill, and go back to Mao? Or what is the status?
In that case, I think we should gift the city to De Gaulle and settle a new iceball later for Mao. No point paying maintenance for an iceball for a lot of turns...

Please rifling before astro. Rifling and then set CI to build some rifles, along with 3-4 other cities will be needed to take Roosevelt more than naval force. Then after astro we want a stack of frigates from CI.

Taj: Make it 1 turn from complete asap. That way Moscow can be free to build executives when available.

OK, Rif before Astro. Even if i prefer the other way. There's time before we arrive to Roos and we can upgrade some Musket or some mace, but we lack naval units. Frigates can also free some cannon from bombardment.

No! we don't have more hammers to waste and many other iceball sites. That iceball is almost paying for its maintenance just for being Confu and once we have representation it will give 3bpt until we can gift it. We must locate 3 more iceballs sites. I'll try to mark something, but it's difficult to find totally hammerless sites. But i don't think it will be so important. They will take forever to build a defender, a worker and a settler.

Sure, the Taj to 1 turn.

beestar · Dec 12, 2010

Riflemen are really cheap to draft. Are we still running a relatively high happiness? Would be worth a dip into Nationhood during our Golden Age, to turn high-pop low-hammer cities into soldiers.

unclethrill · Dec 12, 2010

beestar said:
Riflemen are really cheap to draft. Are we still running a relatively high happiness? Would be worth a dip into Nationhood during our Golden Age, to turn high-pop low-hammer cities into soldiers.

Agree 1000%!!!

This is a really good idea!

Fluroscent · Dec 12, 2010

Yeah, a 4 turn nationhood to draft one rifle for every city sounds like a great idea. Every city except CI and StP that is big enough that is. We should have rifling in time. And we certainly have high enough happy caps to sustain one draft per city.
No need for upgrades then, the musket/maces can be kept as cleanup units even vs rifles, but we need rifles for stack defense and out of city combat.

Longer term thought: Let's keep Gandhi until very late, for trade routes mainly, and make a naval fleet with lots of marines to take out first Stalin (Moscow in 1T by amphibious assault to avoid getting nuked) and then lastly Gandhi with marines+tanks. Then ship an army of workers to clear the last fallout hopefully in time so we don't delay our spaceship.

beestar · Dec 12, 2010

Can we gift Ecology to Gandhi if we're that deep into the tech tree at that point? Depends on whether he can be relied on to clean every tile of fallout. Also, we could also fight a limited war - only enough to gain the tiles that he fails to clean on his own.

Do note that we have to be at peace with all AIs when the spaceship (launches? lands?).

BLubmuz · Dec 13, 2010

OK, so things are clear: Rifling after Rail. Then Astro, but i doubt to finish Rifling.

I'll stop at the beginning of the first turn of GAge, after London is taken, so we can better discuss our civics changes.
I'll do my best to try to have Rifling before the GAge, but without further delays.

Ah, in the inherited turn i traded rice to Roos for 3gpt. And Hastings arrived very well developed, with more buildings than the most of our cities.

Play in few hours, if i can.

unclethrill · Dec 13, 2010

BLubmuz said:
OK, so things are clear: Rifling after Rail. Then Astro, but i doubt to finish Rifling.

I'll stop at the beginning of the first turn of GAge, after London is taken, so we can better discuss our civics changes.
I'll do my best to try to have Rifling before the GAge, but without further delays.

Ah, in the inherited turn i traded rice to Roos for 3gpt. And Hastings arrived very well developed, with more buildings than the most of our cities.

Play in few hours, if i can.

Don't we want rifling before we start the GA so that we can draft rifles?

BLubmuz · Dec 13, 2010

unclethrill said:
Don't we want rifling before we start the GA so that we can draft rifles?

It's ewhat i meant. But i can't risk to lose the Taj to Roos, so if maybe Rifling will arrive 1 turn inside the GAge, it means we have one less turn to draft Rifles. But we can still revolt to Nationalism on the very first turn.

Now, the main reason for this post.

But some more news before.
- I started play and i left on turn 233, after York is conquered without losses. Just Granary+LH there, better than nothing, i suppose. I already have a decent stack 1S of York, just to start bombarding.
- In the IBT 232/233 i've seen Mao completed the Kremlin (Beijing) and Roos took his mostwestern city (Guangzhou, IIRC)
- so i offered him his future capital and he gratefully accepted
- i probably forgot to mention yesterday, but when i closed borders to Roos his knight, who was healing in CI, was teleported North. Bad news? NO!
He's in a coastal ice tile, completely surrounded by Novgorod's borders. Our Chinese iceball is safe. Just to be safe me too i moved a knight in Novo.
- I also forgot to mention the new GG we popped just after the war started. I settle him in Moscow, mainly for Oxford+Repr.
- On turn 232 i forgot to set the slider to 0 science (anyone can make a mistake, right? :mad:

), so now we have Railroad and Rifling is just started. MI founded in StPete, coal ready next turn, first MI exec ready in 3. WS will finish like without MI, in 9 turns.
- The 3rd city on the big island (copper+crabs+spices) will be settled next turn and a missionary is following the settler, while another one is sailing to the coal city.

Finally, my question (i know you skipped the news to read this first, shame)
G is willing to trade SM
we can give him Nationalism+Edu and he adds his WM+40gold (all he have)

Something to ease your decision
- The war is goin' better than expected, i estimate London can fall on turn 237
- The Taj is 1 turn to completion, deleted from the queue and Moscow is producing LBs for the new cities.

I think we must trade. This is a research game, after all.
Perhaps i can risk to wait 1-2 turns, but since Roos got those techs...

SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element

HoF Quattromaster

Emperor

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

Emperor

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

subdeity

HoF Quattromaster

Why am I up right now?

Emperor

HoF Quattromaster

subdeity

Why am I up right now?

Emperor

subdeity

HoF Quattromaster

Why am I up right now?

HoF Quattromaster

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