SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

Keath · Apr 14, 2011

enKage said:
I have clear idea waht are the goals.

Great.

I think it really helps your turnset if you have written out your plan and can use it for reference each turn. The MM required for the Colossus build is pretty complicated. The quote in dima's last post gives a very detailed MM plan. With this reference, you can check each turn. Without using a reference you can/might easily overlook something.

Please don't take it personally but I think we all should have a clear turn by turn plan to follow. And, it's also a good learning experience to make a plan. If one thing can improve any game you play, it's following a well thought out plan and keeping good notes of what happened.

Except where exactly to settle nest cities. I want to settle ASAP on the northern island with two fues, diractly on the southern fur. Is it ok to everyone or should I settle that island on another tile?

We'll need a work boat for the crabs to make the fur city grow. I think the other city should be the one south of the iron on the eastern island. It also needs a work boat right away.

Does everyone agree with these city locations? What should the fur city/iron city build?

Playing friday evening or night CET
Everyone's invited to be online on chat :]

I haven't done this before so how does it work and what do I need to know? And what time would work?

dima42 · Apr 14, 2011

I'm not convinced on the iron city vs. dyes yet. I think the extra production from our current cities thanks to an extra luxury resource makes up for the higher hammer yield of the iron site. Also, our empire isn't spreading in that direction.

-Dima

dima42 · Apr 15, 2011

By the way, I'm really not sure of whether that colossus plan is the way to go. It's a bit radical, and it might be safer to go with a 4-whip plan.

My point was simply that 1-pop whipping makes sense in this situation, although it rarely does.

The Dude Esq · Apr 15, 2011

I've done the cardinal sin and not checked the pages for a couple of days. So outta the loop and a lot of book work to do!

Yer, I'd be up for an online chat. Like Keath said, what's the time and how will it work? I am cooking chilli tonight, and it needs a good couple hours to really stew! Not for the-any-less-than-hardcore, will be putting a full pack of birds eye chillies in!

justjohn · Apr 15, 2011

I took the liberty to suggest a plan for our other cities. I also wanted to see approximately how fast we can build up our army, and it seems to be fast enough.

About city locations. I believe we will settle all three quite soon, but I haven't had time to check the details. In any case the Galley that Lyons (followed by a WB) builds will transport Corsica's Settler, and the Galley outside Paris should return to Elba an transport Elba's Settler to the Fur site. The WB that Orleans builds can improve the Clam up there.

Spoiler :

enKage · Apr 15, 2011

How to chat? Just click the link on the civfanatics site

Enter with your nickname, I will be there as enKage.

If anyone was online within next hour - I will play and take some brainstorm online in case

Otherwise - I will take my turns tomorrow, the same hour as this message is posted

(moving along jj's spoiler)

Keath · Apr 15, 2011

If there is a chat could someone make notes on what happens for the rest of us?

@jj and dima - thanks for the excellent plans. I'm very impressed with how you can put these together. It sure helps our new players (me included) to see how to put a plan together, calculate the math and present a turn by turn list of actions. Nicely done, guys! :goodjob:

@enKage - Does this help clarify your turnset? Are there any questions about these plans? Anything to disagree with?

If I have this right, one settler will go to the fur site and the other will go to the dye site near Rheims and the next settler for the eastern iron.
Edit: cross post with enKage...

Keath · Apr 15, 2011

enKage is on the chat site now if anyone is able to join in.

enKage · Apr 15, 2011

hah

just testing chat now

it looks like most irc commands work, including locking private channels

I'll try to find out how to register nicks and channel permamntly

Keath · Apr 18, 2011

enKage said:
hah just testing chat now it looks like most irc commands work, including locking private channels

I'll try to find out how to register nicks and channel permamntly

Maybe you should leave the chat idea and post when you will play and then everyone can follow your progress when/if you post a screenshot or upload a save partway through your turnset. Or if you are playing and would really like to communicate via the chatroom, set it up and see who joins in.

When would you be able to play?

2metraninja · Apr 19, 2011

Hey team!

I've been away for few days and it took me 2 days to read and assimilate everything.

Is there anyone interested in little team-building in the form of online multiplayer game in the lobby? It will be fun.

fizbankovi · Apr 19, 2011

how much units can we support before we start paying? im afraid pumping axes too early might hurt us on the upkeep...

also, how about going for the hanging gardens also? it can realy speed things up if we have enough cities to make it count...

any trading plans? can we find out what the ai-s are researching somehow?

enKage · Apr 19, 2011

sorry, busy weekend, playing now. If anyone wanted to give some additional support - enter chat and type /join #TNTteam 33sou

enKage · Apr 19, 2011

OK, submitted in few minutes, I did ca. 20 turns (22), screenshots later - have it on the PC I played the game

Main events:
- Collosus built by us one turn before ending set
- ToA built by Willem
- Theology founded - Issy has 3 religions
- Confu founded - Joao
- 3 cities settled
- some exploration
- Joao proved world is round

IMPORTANT !!!!!!!!!!!
- we have workers on galleys now ! Near a) fur island, wanting transport them to Elbe for worshops b) near Lens - the same reason
- screens of cities attached
- slider put to 100% gold, in case we decide to research domething else than construction
- tech monopoly: Esthetics, Literature, nearly monopoly on Currency, Monarchy, MC - but noone woud give away tjeir techs

It would wait for someone better in treding techs
- we have some possibilities to run scientosts
- I haven't changed civics to HR - don't see any need yet
- Willem 12 turns to machinery Shall we change espionage priorities?
- Last turns Willem seems to prioritize units (look at graphs)
- the galley far northeast is exploring east followed by a barb galley

Should be done soon
- 1-2 more workers
- military - I neglected this a liitle (fe. garison in Paris, Tours), spears - Rangar has horses and Ivory and HBR
- chosing which specialist we need first - prophet, engineer, scientist
- build some markets - specialists and +1 happy from furs (especially if we expand on Rangars land and gain Ivory too) and forges (+1 from gold)
- macinery/eng --> trebs and xbows while going to maces? As we have all sea resources, Compass is available to research
- whip Lib, Gran Tours
- get CoL and caste system? we have MC for workshops and collosus to work seatiles
- Great Library !! Statue of Zeus?

I really regret forgot to whip granary in Rheims earlier

Spoiler :

EDIT:
I just wonder, why Lyon has jungle on the water

Keath · Apr 20, 2011

Nicely done, enKage! :goodjob:

I am unable to open the screenshots. What program would work? I've had a brief look after downloading the save. I'll wait for comments before making a plan.

***ROSTER

keath (up)
Windfury (on deck)
fizbankovi
2metraninja
The Dude Esq
dima42
justjohn
enKage (just played)

1. How many axes will we need?
2. Corsica has three builds underway and it has a barracks. Won't this be an important axe production centre?
3. How many galleys? Tiremes?
4. How many libraries do we need?

If I have this right, the goals for my turnset will be to build an army of axes and boats and attack Ragnar.

Any and all ideas are appreciated.

dima42 · Apr 20, 2011

Keath said:
Nicely done, enKage! I am unable to open the screenshots. What program would work? I've had a brief look after downloading the save. I'll wait for comments before making a plan.

***ROSTER

keath (up)
Windfury (on deck)
fizbankovi
2metraninja
The Dude Esq
dima42
justjohn
enKage (just played)

1. How many axes will we need?
2. Corsica has three builds underway and it has a barracks. Won't this be an important axe production centre?
3. How many galleys? Tiremes?
4. How many libraries do we need?

If I have this right, the goals for my turnset will be to build an army of axes and boats and attack Ragnar.

Any and all ideas are appreciated.

1. Too many, at this point. I think about half-swords half-axes at this point, and about eight of each. Also I think now we have to have the two spies for Nidaros and however many spy points you need to get two attempts at disorder there. I'm not at all the expert on this, so hopefully someone else will chime in here. Also, you need to do this before Ragnar gets longbows. Good luck

.
2. Yes, whip things into Moai there and ignore the other builds
3. Few
4. Zero, I think.

Please take a break and post before actually invading. We'll need to discuss military strategy

. This is really fun, I think

.

enKage · Apr 21, 2011

Keath said:
Nicely done, enKage! I am unable to open the screenshots. What program would work? I've had a brief look after downloading the save. I'll wait for comments before making a plan.

***ROSTER

keath (up)
Windfury (on deck)
fizbankovi
2metraninja
The Dude Esq
dima42
justjohn
enKage (just played)

1. How many axes will we need?
2. Corsica has three builds underway and it has a barracks. Won't this be an important axe production centre?
3. How many galleys? Tiremes?
4. How many libraries do we need?

If I have this right, the goals for my turnset will be to build an army of axes and boats and attack Ragnar.

Any and all ideas are appreciated.

Archives are mad with 7zip - Open licence, completely free. I made screenshots of every city and advisor, so cannot upload them seperately.

1) Few more + sword + at least 2 spears (Rangar has HBR and horses). 6 turns to construction - some cats too?
2) When it finishes its Moai,, Forge is needed. No more buildings I think
3) Triremes are enough (or only one more) - only for barb protection
4) We need one in Paris, in Tours as it has 0 production, in Lyon and in Elbe for Great Library. I will run 100% gold till at least we got 3 of them

As we have Lens on viking landmass now, we can start mass unit production and start units transporting.
Should we attack with 2 staks? One from the see, second from the land?

We need now 2 workboats more. 1 in marseille after border pop, 1 in Lens is already waiting t finish monument, 1 in Paris after Library is finished. I hadent improved fishing boats which is between Elba and Corsica - that one which is not in BFC of any of these cities.

Keath · Apr 21, 2011

A few rough ideas to get started on a plan:

City present builds
Here is the situation with a few ideas included:

Elba pop 5-- Library in 11 -- 8 hammers. No barracks.

Corsica pop 5
-- Galley (85/75 in 1 turn

-- Moai - 196/375 -- 12 turns.

-- Forge 13/180 -- 23 turns

1. Build Galley o/f into Moai
2. Build Spy (no gain from barracks?) or Sword one turn then 2 pop whip into Moai
3. Build 1 turn Moai then Spy to regain pop
4. 2 pop whip spy.
5. Finish Moai
6. Build forge
7. Axe/Swords as Corsica has barracks

Orleans pop 4
-- Axeman - 41/52 - 6 turns whip anger at 7/36 turns - no barracks

Lyons pop 6
-- Library (84/135) -- 8 turns whip anger at 8/30 turns - no barracks

Rheims pop 4
-- Archer (68/37) -- whipped into ??

Paris pop 4
-- Library 31/135 -- 26 turns

Tours pop 2
-- Granary (18/90) - 72 turns

Marseilles pop 2
-- Lighthouse (40/90) - 5 turns

Lens pop 1
-- Monument (5/45) - 8 turns

Comments about builds? We'll need swords/axes/spears/mp for cities.

Warriors
Now that we have 2 sources of iron, one under Lens the other mined near Marseilles and our copper near Lyons, are we going to give away these resources to enable building warriors? Two of these could be pillaged but Im not sure we want to do that. Ideas?

Wonders
-- I bring this up because there have been several mentioned. Hanging Gardens? Great Library? others?

I think there would have to be a very strong reason to build wonders when we are going military but the economy could be one reason. At the moment commerce is +68/turn and treasury 0. We could build wealth in some cities.

Techs
- Building Construction at the moment. Agreed? We could hire scientists in cities with library once weve got our military built.

Trades
- No trades or handouts to Ragnar. What about demands? Any techs were looking for? Any we dont want? Willem is building machinery.

Espionage
- presently weight on Willem.

Civics
- Once the need arrives, revolt to HR.

City Builds
- Do we want/need more cities?

The idea of building a couple of spies was just an idea but do we want to try 2 spies in Nidaros for a sleep a few turns ahead of our invasion. Personally Ive never done this before but we could incite a riot, destroy some defences or some other nasty.

Im open to all ideas and wont build a final plan until everyone has their say.

***Please note that it is the Stanley Cup Playoffs and my team is number one in the league with a good chance to win the cup this year. :trophy:

Yes!!! 40 years, man!! So if I am a little distracted and if I appear a bit less attentive to the thread, please note that Ill be watching the game. :banana:

enKage · Apr 22, 2011

Warriors
Now that we have 2 sources of iron, one under Lens the other mined near Marseilles and our copper near Lyons, are we going to give away these resources to enable building warriors? Two of these could be pillaged but Im not sure we want to do that. Ideas?

---> Don't have any idea

Wonders
-- I bring this up because there have been several mentioned. Hanging Gardens? Great Library? others?

---> HG are useless as we can get additional +3 health from harbors.
Good to have pop increased, but we have a lot of food to grow

Wonders we need
GL - Yes, I think very soon
Statue of Zeus - even though we dont have Ivory I think we should try to get it

Wonders to wonder if should be built :]
Parthenon - we got marble and some specialists

Wonders we definitely dont need:
- Shwedagon :]
- MoM - Willem has Calendar and wil get it sooner
other more ancient stuff :]

I think there would have to be a very strong reason to build wonders when we are going military but the economy could be one reason. At the moment commerce is +68/turn and treasury 0. We could build wealth in some cities.

Techs
- Building Construction at the moment. Agreed? We could hire scientists in cities with library once weve got our military built.

Constr - machinary/calendar
CoL finished or traded ASAP, the same with calendar

City Builds
- Do we want/need more cities?

At least one - horse/dye spot

Keath · Apr 23, 2011

A few questions:
1 Elba -- presently 8 hammers into library. If we want the GL, this would be the place, otherwise axes/swords?
2 Corsica -- here the Moai can be built by whipping axes.
3 Orleans -- axemen
4 Lyons -- 2 pop whip Library => axes
5 Rheims -- archer => axes/swords or settler for dyes?
6 Paris -- presently another library but do we want to continue or scrap 31 hammers? -- whip library in 8-10 turns => axe/sword
7 Tours -- granary => ??
8 Marseilles -- whip lighthouse into workboat
9 Lens -- This has solid production (but no pop growth at 9 hammers) -- monument => lighthouse => spy/spy => spear.

Lens would be a good location for units to mass for march on Nidaros. For a sea attack what route? This is going to be a bit tricky, imo, not just because of the restricted sea route but its a long haul through the jungle. A city south of Lens for the dyes might be a good choice as wed have a useful canal.

So:
Elba -- GL? yes/no?
Rheims -- settler or military?
Paris -- library? yes/no?
City build -- north of Rheims for dye/horse AND/OR south of Lens for dyes/canal?
Warriors or alternative for military police and hereditary rule? How many?
other thoughts.

Hopefully this will get us to a discussing a detailed plan for production.

SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

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