SGOTM 14 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Roster:
Mad Professor - UP
-Asterix- - On Deck
Htadus
The-Hawk
Cactus Pete
DJMGator13
leif

 

[The-Hawk]

. . . leif has certainly done well. Absolutely !!!

In Vanilla, the next tech for me would clearly be Steel for cannons, but not sure in BTS.

I agree completely. When I said I would beeline to Infantry next, I meant after steel. I thought we had already decided we needed cannon.

 

[leif erikson]

Thanks guys, but our progress is way too slow. We need to figure out how to accelerate our progress. The freedom we are gaining via sea routes will help a lot and cannons surely cannot hurt.
edit - gold for upgrading some of our CR3 Maces to Grens would also be a huge help.

Need to break Asoka and move on the Raggie as quickly as we can. I just am not sure how to do that?

The English cities have helped our economy, as did the switch to free market. Guess we need more of Asoka's and Raggie's cities.

 

[Cactus Pete]

If we get SciMeth the next tech to bulb would be Physics. In that case, not sure a GA is optimal. Alternative would be to use the GM quickly for a trade route and hold the existing GS to see if we get another from NK. If we do, that would give us two GSs to bulb much of Physics and get another GS, plus airships. If we don't get a GS from NK, then we would not trade for ScM but would use the GS, along with the (presumably) GE from NK, to have a GA then.

Had planned to send one Frigate south and one towards Ayodhya, to pass through the planned canal there and head for Rags capital. Do you mean send the privateer towards Ayodhya (didn't think we had but one frigate)?

We lost all our caravels on that side of the legs due to Rags using double Caravels to attack them. Anticipated this. Thought the info was worth the likely sacrifice.

Sorry, didn't realize that was where the Galleon was headed and used him to move Workers heading south from former English lands. Then to move units from England to SanFran. Sounds like you put him to good use. At some point we probably should at least send a caravel, built in an English western city, up north of the Mongols and on to the west to peruse other civs and eventually Emerald City.

They were healing and while they were, several Knights appeared from other AI nations, so I left some in the area in case of back stab,. Plus, we do not have enough Muskets/LB's to back fill MP's. Probably poor reasons, but ... Can't be stabbed from behind for 5 more turns and, at least in Vanilla, it would be extremely unlikely even then. Also, we can draft grens if the Mongols get agressive. Another reason to get a ship sailing west of Coventry.

Trying to build some back fill units for MP, Canterbury is on the slow growth path with no significant food resources. Should have probably used Worker there to chop the forest into a Granary. Slow growth in the city makes sense. Notice that there are a number of forests in old England. Suggest that they should be chopped whenever the closest worker does not have a tile to improve that could be well utilized immediately.

One of the reasons I suggested a turn over is that now is probably the cleanest we will see for a while. Units are just completing healing in Agra, there is an attack force in SanFran ready to launch that could still be adjusted if needed and most units in the area of Bombay have been killed. Understood -- nice set.

Suggest that a force be loaded on Galleons from Agra/Bombay and head by sea to Bangalore. The force gathered at SanFran head for Ayodhya, while bombarding the city, send back Galleon to bring some Workers and then after taking the city, build a canal south of the city and head by Galleon for Lahore and then Nidaros or straight for Nidaros. Keep pumping out units and Grens will be a welcome addition.

As noted in earlier post, don't think we should be drafting too much if we are going into a GA, but not sure that we should be.

Let's also consider getting rid of Asoka's horses, so we don't have to keep defending against 6-tile knight attacks. I'd sacrifice a cur to get that done (not that we would have to), but we might just want to prioritize taking the associated city.

 

[Htadus]

There is a simple solution for the use of a GM. Send it to the city where we can get the most out of him. Then see if a GA can out do the trade mission, then decide.

I am with Hawk in regards to the tech path. Benefits from the blimp is minimal and Infantry will get us what we need more than blimps.

I am amazed that we need to go that far up the tech tree.

 

[leif erikson]

If we get SciMeth the next tech to bulb would be Physics. In that case, not sure a GA is optimal. Alternative would be to use the GM quickly for a trade route and hold the existing GS to see if we get another from NK. If we do, that would give us two GSs to bulb much of Physics and get another GS, plus airships. If we don't get a GS from NK, then we would not trade for ScM but would use the GS, along with the (presumably) GE from NK, to have a GA then

I like this. Airship would be very useful for recon and anti-ship.

Do you mean send the privateer towards Ayodhya (didn't think we had but one frigate)?

There is one Frigate in New York and another due next turn, iirc. Should continue building them.

The Privateer cannot bombard cities but can clean out the Caravels Raggie and Asoka keep sending after our Caravels. Thought we could send him to the waterway between Asoka and Raggie to ensure safe travel for our Galleons, when they get there.

Thinking we could build another Privateer in old England and send it towards Oz, but it will probably get sunk by Montie/Gandhi. Airships will not...

Anticipated this. Thought the info was worth the likely sacrifice.

It was.

Sounds like you put him to good use. At some point we probably should at least send a caravel, built in an English western city, up north of the Mongols and on to the west to peruse other civs and eventually Emerald City.

Yes, possibly an Airship.

Can't be stabbed from behind for 5 more turns and, at least in Vanilla, it would be extremely unlikely even then. Also, we can draft grens if the Mongols get agressive. Another reason to get a ship sailing west of Coventry.

Not knowing which civ is who is a problem. The Malinese had a Knight or tow up there at one point and I think the Zulu as well. Cannot get over distrust of Zulu's or Aztecs.

Slow growth in the city makes sense. Notice that there are a number of forests in old England. Suggest that they should be chopped whenever the closest worker does not have a tile to improve that could be well utilized immediately.

Agree, shold have chopped instead of mined.

As noted in earlier post, don't think we should be drafting too much if we are going into a GA, but not sure that we should be.

Think there are some opportunities in old England we might consider. Some of the larger cities are just getting ready to be able to draft.

Let's also consider getting rid of Asoka's horses, so we don't have to keep defending against 6-tile knight attacks. I'd sacrifice a cur to get that done (not that we would have to), but we might just want to prioritize taking the associated city.

Not sure this will matter much. If one of the partners has a resource, they both share it. So we would have to pillage Raggie's horses too.

edit -

I am with Hawk in regards to the tech path. Benefits from the blimp is minimal and Infantry will get us what we need more than blimps.

I am amazed that we need to go that far up the tech tree.

Fighting two civs that share tech and resources is more difficult than I thought. You need to keep an eye out and there are a lot of units between both civs. Taking on Zulu/Malinese or Aztec/Gandhi is not going to be fun, or fast.

Blimps are excellent for recon, but I agree it is a lot of beakers we need in other places, like Steel.

 

[The-Hawk]

I would think our best bet is to send a Frigate to Oz. A privateer will be attacked by the other AIs.

I think we need to get someone over to Oz soon. If there is an advanced unit sitting on that city, we may need more research. Better to know soon.

 

[leif erikson]

I would think our best bet is to send a Frigate to Oz. A privateer will be attacked by the other AIs.

I think we need to get someone over to Oz soon. If there is an advanced unit sitting on that city, we may need more research. Better to know soon.

Just looked at the save, Nottingham is the perfect place to build a Frigate. It is on Wealth and making 10 hpt, 15 if we work the plains hill.

 

[Mad Professor]

Roster:
Mad Professor - UP
-Asterix- - On Deck
Htadus
The-Hawk
Cactus Pete
DJMGator13
leif

I've downloaded the save. Over the next 24 hours or so I will carefully look things over. I think we need to keep moving, yes?

 

[leif erikson]

Yes, it can be slow going and the deadline is approaching.

 

[Mad Professor]

Yes, it can be slow going and the deadline is approaching.

Working on it. I've had a careful look through the save. Time consuming is right. There's so much happening! Hope to get a plan posted in the next 24 hours.

 

[Mad Professor]

I would think our best bet is to send a Frigate to Oz. A privateer will be attacked by the other AIs.

I think we need to get someone over to Oz soon. If there is an advanced unit sitting on that city, we may need more research. Better to know soon.

I agree we need to see the Emerald City ASAP. That will be a ways off though. At the moment any ship will have to go the east and south way since we don't have open borders with Genghis and we're not likely to get a path through Mongolia without declaring war again.

 

[leif erikson]

Working on it. I've had a careful look through the save. Time consuming is right. There's so much happening! Hope to get a plan posted in the next 24 hours.

Do not mean to rush you. Here to help if you need it.

I agree we need to see the Emerald City ASAP. That will be a ways off though. At the moment any ship will have to go the east and south way since we don't have open borders with Genghis and we're not likely to get a path through Mongolia without declaring war again.

Can a Caravel break closed borders without a war?

Privateers surely can, there shouldn't be any Frigates about as they require Chemistry and I believe we are about to get it solo? Maybe Privateer is the way to go, moves faster too?

 

[Htadus]

Can a Caravel break closed borders without a war? Yes

Privateers surely can, there shouldn't be any Frigates about as they require Chemistry and I believe we are about to get it solo? Maybe Privateer is the way to go, moves faster too?

Not a bad idea.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Not sure this will matter much. If one of the partners has a resource, they both share it. So we would have to pillage Raggie's horses too." Not sure this is true. If Rags has two horses, then he will surely share though.

 

[Mad Professor]

Can a Caravel break closed borders without a war?

Privateers surely can, there shouldn't be any Frigates about as they require Chemistry and I believe we are about to get it solo? Maybe Privateer is the way to go, moves faster too?

Yes - neither privateers nor caravels need open borders. I'll do some measuring from where various ships are and see how long it would take.

"Not sure this will matter much. If one of the partners has a resource, they both share it. So we would have to pillage Raggie's horses too." Not sure this is true. If Rags has two horses, then he will surely share though.

This is where airships would come in handy A lot of beakers and turns to get one though so it won't help to aim at them right now I don't think. Canons will be even more useful (in other ways), and trebs upgrade to them reasonably cheaply.

 

[leif erikson]

Please have a look at building one in Nottingham, far NW corner of old England, now new Dorothy...

 

[Mad Professor]

Please have a look at building one in Nottingham, far NW corner of old England, now new Dorothy...

A caravel/privateer?

 

[leif erikson]

Yes, if you change a citizen to work the mined plains hill, you can generate 15 hpt.

 

[Mad Professor]

Some general comments and thoughts so far...

I rather like the idea of getting a trade route out of that GMerchant, but the problem is getting him there. Walking to the likes of Delhi or Tenochitlan (bound to be good locations for a trade route) would take 9 turns and would require an escort of a currasier at least (perhaps 2 and we wouldn't want to include a slow unit or we'd double the travel time). An alternative is to take him by sea, but since we don't have any surviving caravels and we don't have (and are not likely to get) open borders with Mongolia, we'd need to wait to build the caravel... And we might have to escort the caravel with a frigate to ensure he gets there - or if we wanted to take him by the south route in a galleon, which would be a long way and definitely require a frigate escort.

I'm seeing this trade route is not going to come about any time soon. If we want to use him for a golden age we should do it without taking him on a long and dangerous journey first!

Regarding getting to the Emerald City, the privateer can get within sight in 19 turns of movement assuming no detours or other problems on the way, and that is not taking into account dealing with that indian caravel... An alternative is building a privateer in Nottingham (6 turns to build it?) plus then a 15 turn voyage. That would leave the existing privateer available for other mischief, but obviously would take a couple of extra turns.

Any comments?

Tech - would go to steel next assuming a military victory is pretty much our only option now? GScientists are not going to help us on that route for a while with SciMeth, Physics, Biology and Electricity looking to be all more popular GSci bulbs. If we get a bunch of them though I'd be tempted to push us along the way to physics as the blimps can be very useful - I wouldn't want to tech that way before getting infantry, but if we get more of scientists... Comments?

Drafting - those unhappies hurt - I might lay off for one turn so I can draft some grens with the next batch of unhappies... With a specialist economy, unhappy faces are a dead weight and we still need to make tech progress.

I like leif's suggestions of troops near Agra/Bombay by sea to Bangalore, the mob near SanFran to Ayodhya and the idea of a canal through the land arm near Ayodhya.

I think there are some more courthouses that can be built (eg SanFran) - can we afford the hammers off military units to do that? Can we afford not to try reducing our maintenance?

Any comments welcome. Early evening here now - hope to post a plan tomorrow morning.