SGOTM 15 - Xteam

The aim is to win the SGOTM, not just win the game. Can't be too risk averse. Advocate attacking next turn, even if it means having to deal with complexities.
 
She's has to get more then 75% of the votes which isn't possible in the current situation as the Team-AI has enough votes to save us. And we'll be busy getting more AI stripped of buddhism. I also think that toku being in a completely different religion is more beneficial to us than him converting to hinduism, which he might do as soon as he gets it.
But maybe i'm missing your point completely.
Yeah, looks covered for now. :yup:

Regarding the war situation, i would wait to get atleast another xbow or two in our stack using the whip/chop in the nearest cities (osaka and kyoto) and then start the war. Hoping hatshe and genghis aren't going to roam around our borders trying to get through to kago, as it would be difficult to defend and delaying our attack a bit.
If everybody is fine with that, i'd play in a couple of hours.
The aim is to win the SGOTM, not just win the game. Can't be too risk averse. Advocate attacking next turn, even if it means having to deal with complexities.
Agreed, would rather lose the game trying to win the competition than win the game in last place... :)

Strap on your helmet and Good Luck! :thumbsup:
 
Summary:

We declared on hatshe, got one city from her.

Spoiler :


The ministack moved on grassland and we killed it losing two units, then we lost an axe on the forested PH when he was trying to get a look into satsuma. During the siege of memphis we lost a cat, an axe and a spear (against a WC attack straight up from NE of the stack) killing ~ 10 defenders.

Reinforcements in form of xbows, swords and cats are on the way. Hatshe got HBR but i haven't seen a phant yet. I'll probably build more spears.

We also had the opportunity to get open borders with an annoyed toku and i took it to keep options open and i don't have a problem with him throwing hammers away by smashing his (few) units against satsuma. On that note, cyrus is also in war-mode.

Got the GE in dehli but didn't use him yet.

Made a mistake at dehli with regards to micro. :blush:

We're loosing money pretty quickly, but not yet in the real danger zone. Next direction i'd go is E through the forests to sack a coastal city in the east.

I stayed away from spies because we needed the reinforcements but hatshe's land is wide open and i consider building some in the next couple turns to get a better view of the surroundings.

Will stop for today to let everybody catch up. Can play another set in ~20h so we have enough time to discuss the next steps.

Overview pictures:

Spoiler :




 

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Lots of WHEOOHRN going on :rolleyes:. I wonder if they are coming for us or dogpiling?

Economy might become a challenge, would be nice to get currency from Hatty when we've taken most of her cities.
 
Going well, Undecided.

Some suggestions:

Send one of the workers on the tile 1N of Memphis onto the rice and then back onto the tile 1W of the city, giving us intelligence (whether there are units on the hills and possibly that there is a city NW of the rice and what is defending it). Roading the tile 1N is problematic, as we aren't going to advance over it immediately.

At the beginning of next turn, use two workers to road the tile SE of Memphis, allowing axe11 to move onto the forest 2E, with cats to follow if it looks safe.

Depending on what we know after these two maneuvers, decide whether of not to split forces, with some proceeding NW and others E.

Can we not still gain gold from pillaging the two villages W and SW of Memphis? If so, probably wise to do so in the next four turns, even if we are going to be using those tiles in 5 turns. We need to get Engineering and pikes. BTW, why continue to pay maintenance on our engineeer?

Argue against building military units in cities without barracks at this point. Prefer switching back to OR and building missionaries in Kyoto and eventually Tokyo, or at least just build research after present units are completed.

All but one unit in Pat better positioned 1N of city, at least until a road is build under Bab chariots.
 
Good start on Hatty - our only problem with her I think will be how many Xbows she produces (and if she gets elephants). For sheer power, there's not a problem.

I find myself looking forward to next our "tech-by-declaring-war" haul - need to get some out of Hatty to keep our economy alive.

Gotta press on. :hammer:
 
Keep up the good work Undecided. :hammer:

Can we not still gain gold from pillaging the two villages W and SW of Memphis? If so, probably wise to do so in the next four turns, even if we are going to be using those tiles in 5 turns. We need to get Engineering and pikes. BTW, why continue to pay maintenance on our engineeer?
Is it time to use the Great Prophet for our Golden Age and some additional cash and hammers? Also, stop paying maintenance on him? Perhaps have one city switch to research to get enough beakers to complete Engineering?

Agree with using Engineer to bulb Engineering. :yup:

Argue against building military units in cities without barracks at this point. Prefer switching back to OR and building missionaries in Kyoto and eventually Tokyo, or at least just build research after present units are completed.
As we have OB with Toku, could gift him a Hindu Missionary if we have some extra hammers to build him one?

Good Luck and Happy Hunting. :goodjob:
midnight beach haka... :D
 
The longer we wait for the GA and keep taking cities and growing, the more remunerative it will be. Would make sense to use it now if it is the only way to get Engineering in a short time. Since taking additional cities soon seems likely, advocate against its use right now, but need to keep it in mind.

I will be out of town and out of touch tomorrow.
 
The longer we wait for the GA and keep taking cities and growing, the more remunerative it will be. Would make sense to use it now if it is the only way to get Engineering in a short time. Since taking additional cities soon seems likely, advocate against its use right now, but need to keep it in mind.
Understand, I was thinking more in terms of getting Engineering soonest, before too many War Elephants begin showing up. Going to need Pikes.

Also, cities have to be out of resistance to take advantage of the Golden Age, and that could be some time for former Egyptian cities. :dunno:

I will be out of town and out of touch tomorrow.
Hope you have a good trip, nice and safe. :)
 
Good progress and lets continue the pressure. If there are WE, then they are a match to a lowly spear. So lets use defesive tiles during the movements.

I recommend against sending a lonely axes for recon since that = extra GG points to AI who had chariots. Send acat along to protect the axe :).

Lets build a couple of Hindu missionaries asap for toku.

Too bad we can not even use the GA to get a couple of GP's.
 
Looking good, Undecided. :D

Keep the pics coming! :goodjob:

Hot here in France, the snow bunnies barely got any clothes on..... :mischief:
 
Hot here in France, the snow bunnies barely got any clothes on..... :mischief:
You cannot keep that to yourself! :eek:

What do you do when the snow melts? :mischief:
 
It's update time again. :)

Summary:
I decided against switching to OR for now as it would've cost us 35 gold and i couldn't get any money from selling techs.
Canceled the 2gpt deer-deal with hammu for a 4gpt deer-deal with cyrus. Used the GE for Engineering. Kyoto and Osaka started building research, because they lack a rax.
Peaked, as CP suggested in the NW of Memphis and discovered Pi-R, defended by 2 archers. Send a small group towards the city and captured it, defeating the reinforcements from hatshe in the process and getting 3 workers the following turn, while forgetting to take a screenshot. (Hatshe would sign a peace treaty but only for med and 20 gold, not going to happen)
Meanwhile a fearless group moved through the forests E of memphis and after a bit of searching discovered hatshes Cap Thebes on a hill with walls and 100% culturebonus.:crazyeye:
Memphis got attacked by a couple of spare units and the mainstack had to heal, while waiting for more reinforcements.

Around this time, Toku lost Illnois and Eliza went out of war-mode. Then Shaka dogpiled on Toku.
Got Engineering last turn and chopped/whipped a pike in Memphis, and used the update trick to get another pike in Bombay. Now we are in an interesting situation.
I moved our mainstack through the forests towards thebes, but because toku lost Illnois, hatshe shows up with the first WEs and tries to start some kind of counter attack.

Spoiler :


We already killed another WE last turn losing a CB in the process.
We also got hit with war weariness (hatshe has SoZ :() and won't be capable of getting thebes before we run out of money. Hatshe will only give us satsuma and some gold or med for peace, which is unfortunate. She also has Engineering herself very soon. So this is a good time to stop and discuss. Tokyo has reseach because i didn't want to waste the 24 overflow hammers and couldn't think of anything useful to build.
Every other city build is up for discussion, now that we can build trebs and pikes and probably have to whip away a couple angry citizens.
Could sneak in a couple of spies to scout the land a bit. Research is set on currency right now.
Might be time for our GA. We also got a GG in dehli this turn.

I could play one last part in about 10h if we can agree on a strategy for the next turns. Otherwise i don't have much time over easter to play and we should move on to the next turnplayer.

Overview shots:

Spoiler :






The state of the save is that everybody has moved except our mainstack in forest to keep options open.
 

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Nice progress! :goodjob:

Where do you think Hatse's stack of Cats will go next, to attack Memphis or our stack in the forest? :hmm:

As Hatse has War Elephants and Horse Archers versus our Spears, for now, that is a bit tough, but we need to try to get Thebes. Looks like there is enough to defend Memphis for the moment. Would be nice if Hatse attacked Memphis with our stack where it is, we could finish those Cats.
 
I know cats cannot kill regular units in BtS, but can they kill other cats? If so, then we should formulate and agree on a thoughtful plan and attack now, loosing a few cats but gaining experience for several others. Either those Egyptian cats are going to attack Memphis next turn and cause us the loss of four of our best units (including the new pike) or they are going to retreat and be an ongoing problem. (Don't think they will attack units on a forest, given their mainly CR promotions, but that would not be good or us either. Are cats not subject to flank attack?) Don't think we would lose more units attacking than defending and will have more control of the situation and be a turn ahead, thereby making Egyptian reinforcements less of a problem and getting to Thebes sooner.

Shouldn't use GA until necessary, and best used when citizens are not out of use due to war weariness. Would rather trade Machinery for 180 gold. (Won't it be traded for anyway?)
 
I made a test scenario and i think the best course of action is attacking the cat-stack in the forest, protecting the remaining cats from the WE with the not moveable CB. Rest of Mainstack 1N and the two units next to memphis are killed by the garrison there. Cats can damage only one cat at a time.
The scenario doesn't take any possible promotions into account, so there might be slightly worst outcomes for our side. Units who are fortified can't move in the real game. The stack 1W of Memphis represents the garrison of Pi-R which could reinforce memphis to some extent.
 

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Hats cats are CR promoted, so they will very likely go to reclaim their city. I recommend either hold ground with the main stack since the cats fair well against other cats or move the main stack to east forest en route to the PH sheep. That WC and sword will likely die this turn.

I prefer stacking all the units on that tile to absorb damage and reduce losses.
 
Disappointed that the Memphis villages weren't pillaged.

Played the test several times, several ways. It is a close call, and the lack of promotion possibilites (especially cats to drill) leaves considerable uncertainty. Man with the mouse can decide.

Would suggest that, if we do not attack, we follow Htadus's suggestion and move the stack east. However, in addition to leaving the crossbow on the forest, urge that an unpromoted cat be left there as well, to help eliminate the stack that is likely to end up outside Memphis. Most units in the city probably best promoted to combat1, but leaving one crossbow unpromoted seems optimal. Also, a couple on units from PiR should probably be moved towards Memphis. Like risking the spear against the wounded WE while we have the chance.

If we do attack, then suggest that most of the units in PiR be advanced NE with the idea of pillaging that road next turn, leaving the city less vulnerable, and then probably moving forward the following turn. Think promoting cats to drill and attacking with them first will work best. If the spear is not needed to finish off a forest unit (and may want to leave one) would again risk against the WE. Would also attack the stack outside Memphis, since the odds are in our favor and it will allow us to move the supermedic onto the forest.

Still like trading Machinery while it's worth something.

Copper can be used in Kyoto, and, if we're not going to build a missionary there (first choice), then perhaps we should whip a barracks.

Like settling the GG in Delhi and building a treb there and in Pat, while completing the crossbow in Bombay.
 
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