SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[ZPV]

One question. Is getting money from excess overflow as efficient as getting money from just building wealth?

No - as of the latest version of BUFFY we don't get production mulipliers on overflow-gold.

 

[Folket]

So I should avoid overflow gold. Why did they change that in BUFFY?

 

[Folket]

Was that all the comments? We have less then 20 days left. I'm hoping to be able to finish my 20 turns in three days to leave us some wiggle room.

 

[ZPV]

There isn't an awful lot to say. Once you get Democracy, then trade for rifling so we can go invade Hammy.

 

[ZPV]

So I should avoid overflow gold. Why did they change that in BUFFY?

Up to BtS v3.17, we got all the production multipliers on overflow gold, including any hammers from chops/whips/etc. That meant a city with Heroic Epic and Drydocks could get great overflow gold (better than building Wealth) from work boats (yes they are a military unit!). The big overflow exploit was chopping forests into protective-boosted, stone-boosted walls.

The final patch to the main game changed this, but they also accidentally removed gold-overflow (one of the developers confirmed it was accidental). Thus, the makers of BUFFY added it back in, as intended.

 

[Folket]

I take that as a green light then. But we have not agreed in a tech path following democracy.

 

[Folket]

I see. But changing the overflow gold into 0% modifiers seems to go the opposite direction. It should have the same modifiers as building wealth.

 

[Shaandore]

Don't play yet

 

[Folket]

K, I was waiting for an other green light. But now I will wait for that and for you to say that it is fine to continue.

It would also be good if you explained what you would like get resolved before I play or if you are just waiting for more people to have the chance to see the PPP.

 

[Shaandore]

I have no idea when we should have our golden age. But as far as I can see Gergovia is 8 turns before Thebes. Why were we worried that Gergovia would not pop the next GP?

We weren't really worried. The end of GA and the Sci Meth trade turned things dramatically. Now that we see that Gegrovia will have its next GP relatively soon, we should put the merchants back to grow Gergovia faster (The artists must stay hired). We wouldn't want to start next GA in 8 turns IMO.

Should I settle the great general somewhere so that we can build units with 5 xp?
No. A second medic should come now. Build an explorer in Apache or Uzbek, and attach to that.

So I will kill sitting bulls boats during two turns and then make peace with him.

Ok. If he is willing to make peace.

So I will continue to build mining inc executives and send them to all places I can find. Once I filled the islands I will start building settlers with them. But priority will be given to building Sid sushi executives.

I will post a PPP tomorrow morning.

PPP until I have SoL

Cities:
Found Sid Sushi in Bibactre. Bibactre has enough overflow to build two executive in one turn. By moving work around to more hammers I should be able to produce 3 executives in three turns.

I will try to plan my routes so that cities will have overflow ready when they receive Sid Sushi. First executive will go to Uzbek that has overflow ready and from Uzbek will continue to Orleans.

Second executive will move to Durocortorum which will whip coal plant next turn creating overflow. From there I can reach Thebes.

So executive will be
1: Bibactre
2: Bibactre, Uzbek
3: Bibactre, Uzbek, Orleans, Durocortorum
4: Uzbeck, Orleans, Durocortorum, probably Vienne and one more.

I don't like this plan, Uzbek is not reachable in 1 turn from Bibracte. Spread to Tolosa first. Tolosa can spread to Orelans and Uzbek too. Bibracte. My proposal:
1: Bibactre
2: Bibracte->Tolosa
3: Tolosa->Orleans, Bibracte->Durocortorum
4: Bibracte->Gergovia, Tolosa->Uzbek, Durocortorum->Thebes, Orleans->Apache

Don't be afraid to whip executives if you can't build them in 1 turn. With sushi they will grow back very fast.


Build factories and coal plants. As many as I can afford while spreading corps and getting democracy in three turns. Coal plants have priority.

Democracy has to come in 2 turns. Otherwise it is not worth the detour. (And we have a bigger chance of losing it to Qin. He is also Industrious and has stone...) I think he has Demo for ~7 turns now. He has 2,75 multiplier. His best hammer city (Shanghai) produces ~25 raw hammers. It would mean he needs 18 turns to get it. Unless he starts chopping, eg. 3 chops would make it 15 turns, so we would just beat him. Let's hope he doesn't pop a GE with the Hanging Gardens.

Will not be building units except in Apache as we are not trading for rifling yet. Are we close enough to a consensus here? Tours will get a galleon to spread MI to Amiens.

What are you building? I think that only cannons make sense now, everything else will be outdated in no time.


Will build one hindu temple and try to build 4 theatres.

War:
Kill sitting bulls boats then make peace.

New cities:
Once all cities have MI I will start building settlers with new executives. Planting cities on blue dots. Once Sid sushi starts to be omnipresent I will start settling red dots.

Red dots now would slow us down now. Blue dots are OK. If we have long time left when Sushi is spread to all our current cities, then maybe we should consider the red dots. Otherwise they are not worth the investment IMO.

Civics, GPP:
No planed civic changes. Will get a great person in Gergovia. I have no idea when we are planing to have our next golden age.

We want big cities to be able to starve multiple GP in next golden age. We are waiting for sushi spread to make our cities big first.

Diplo:
Buy any resources we want.
If you can offer resources. They are usually willing to give the sushi/MI resource and gpt for it. Eg. we have a deal with Hammu: he gives Copper+3gpt for Spices.

Research:
Get Democracy then (electricity?).

Yes. Demo->Physics->Electricity->Radio. If we can, then trade for Physics and Rifling after Demo. Otherwsie just trade for Rifling and research Physics.

workers:
First priority is to build railroad when needed by executives. Next they will build improvements.

Time to workshop our key hammer cities: Apache, Uzbek, Thebes should get workshops. Eg. Apache should workshop all its plains/grass tiles (except pigs of course) Farms only if we need some chaining.

answers in red
I'm calculating Thebes overflow to see if we can get SoL in 4 truns.

 

[Shaandore]

Okay. I calculated everything in Thebes, and the following would work:
Build Coal Plant, then Aqueduct next turn. Then build SoL in 4 turns by switching a grassland farm to the Grass Hill mine and put the new citizen on the plains workshop. If I screwed something up, you might need to steal the grass workshop from Heliopolis and starve a little bit so we can get it in 2+4 turns. But it should not be needed.

 

[Folket]

Good feedback.

I will get an explorer with medic 3 then. Why explorer?

Uzbek is reachable in one turn if I build two steps of railroads. I will whip them if I'm unable to jsut build in one turn at a place close enough. But I wanted a plan that would give us Sid Sushi in all corners of our empire cheap and fast. After the first four turns there should be no problem to build 5 executives a turn until I need to ferry them.

Democracy in two turns. I can do that but it is expensive. I prefer 3 turns. Getting more factories and coal plants built.

I'm building cannons or galleons until I have rifling. So I guess we agree on cannon then. Then infantry.

Red dot are for when we need more places to spread Sid sushi. i.e in 7-9 turns.

Good point on the GPs. Let us grow our cities now.

I know about trading resources. I did a trade buying extra silver from Saladin a few turns ago. I will make sure to have one round of buying seafood once I found Sid Sushi.

Electricity it is.

k, I will give workshops around our planed production centers high priority.

 

[Shaandore]

We get 10 food this turn from sushi, and we will be at 12 food in ~5 turns without trades. It means that farms are not needed unless we want to build a megacity for starving GPeople. Eg. Rheims could be farmed/windmilled. Isca too (only one workshop). Other places should get workshops.

 

[Folket]

can you check if we can get SoL in 4 turns by just building coal plant now and then one turn of wealth before starting SoL.

the turn of wealth would really help out getting democracy in two turns while still building infrastructure.

 

[Shaandore]

Explorer because it won't defend and it's fast and cheap.

Uzbek is fine with 2 well placed rails.

If we lose SoL then we waste 3 turns. I would rather have 4-5 factories one turn later than lose it. We can get it with 90% slider. Next two turns turn we won't do a lot of spreading since spreading to island cities is slow, and Sushi is small. We can get demo with 2 turns of 90% slider.

Green light from me.

It would be nice to have some more active posters...
I think you should wait a bit for more reactions if you can. But just as long as you can play the miniset today, moving on is imprtant. Only 19 days left. 4 turns/day is the bare minimum.

SoL with wealth: checking now.

EDIT: We can do it with wealth. Make sure to grow in two turns though (should happen automatically)

EDIT2: Don't forget to whip Granaries in Cherbourg and Strasbourg.

 

[Folket]

Thanks,

I will wait a little but not for long. It will not getter better if I'm tired when playing.

 

[Shaandore]

True. Good luck!

 

[ZPV]

We get 10 food this turn from sushi, and we will be at 12 food in ~5 turns without trades. It means that farms are not needed unless we want to build a megacity for starving GPeople. Eg. Rheims could be farmed/windmilled. Isca too (only one workshop). Other places should get workshops.

Well, we want to build several megacities for starving great people.
We don't need to do that just yet though.

A couple of farms, to boost growth to one citizen/turn while the city is small, are worth it for the other cities, so long as we have enough workers.

I don't have anything to add (or the time to look at this properly today), so don't hold up on account of me.

 

[BLubmuz]

Good to see we finally agree on the SoL.
What about Pentagon? Since we plan to switch to war, it can be of use. It's 4-5 turns, ridicolous. It also gives GSpy points and a GSpy it's what we need for our GAge.

Good luck Folket. Report once you got the SoL in the pocket.

edit: i will update page 1 later today. Terrible days those.

 

[Shaandore]

We wil have tanks/marines or artillery/infantry against their riflemen. I think that the extra 2 xp won't help our war at all. We can get the siege in Apache and Uzbek without very fast, and with 2 promotions. I would rather have the 1000 gold that wealth building provides instead of Pentagon.

The wonders we really need are Broadway, Rock&Roll, Hollywood and Eiffel tower. We need a lot of Happiness with sushi, and they will be a nice help with the multipliers if we can build some in Orleans.

BTW warring now should be minimal. We need to watch our land percentage. We should get the key cities if we need them. Sushi culture is powerful, amybe we shouldn't spread it overseas.

We also need UN for an objective