SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[Folket]

I'd build the worker now in Orleans (so the unhappy citizen won't cost us food as long as there's no starvation), and then go into a high growth configuration afterwards.

I was planing on growing on turn of gem. But worker makes sense.

I don't quite understand this. It's a long road to the iron, and the border pop takes 5 turns.
Would you spend three turns each building a road north of the horses, north of the city, and on the iron? An extra two turns, building roads on the deer, deer-NE, city-N and iron? Or will the new city be on the coast instead, so that it's automatically connected to our trade network? The worker logistics aren't easy - the Orleans worker struggles to be in the right place at the right time so I'm tempted to build the longer road which we'll need anyway to hook up the deer.

Building road over deer makes sense. I will do that.

 

[Shaandore]

Green light from me on the PPP until Masonry with all the modifications

 

[Folket]

I would like ZPV to clarify what he means by
"I'd build the worker now in Orleans (so the unhappy citizen won't cost us food as long as there's no starvation), and then go into a high growth configuration afterwards."
It is not like we will have any unhappy citizen. If he do not reply by tonight I will just build a worker.

 

[Shaandore]

I guess he remebered that the unhappy citizen is in Orleans, although it is sadly in Paris. Normally you pay 2 food for every citizen (happy or unhappy), but there is a trick there: when building a worker, even the 2 food of the unhappy citizen is added to production, so we don't pay food for the unhappy guy.

Building a worker in Paris is probably a bad idea since we want to grow there. What were you planning to build in the 5 turns until gems are improved? IIRC Orleans already has its important buildings, so switching to a worker now is probably the best idea. (and staying in max food+hammer configuration)

 

[Folket]

Paris will just continue to build research. My alternative was temple but I think the consensus is to produce research and then a market.

 

[Shaandore]

Oh, I was too hasty typing my previous post. What I meant is what were you planning to build in Orleans in those 5 turns?

 

[Folket]

I guess I was going to build research.

 

[Folket]

I would not want to delay currency for getting a worker a few turns earlier. I will settle the new city and then build worker in orleans for as many turns as is allowed while still getting currency in three turns.

 

[ZPV]

I would like ZPV to clarify what he means by
"I'd build the worker now in Orleans (so the unhappy citizen won't cost us food as long as there's no starvation), and then go into a high growth configuration afterwards."
It is not like we will have any unhappy citizen. If he do not reply by tonight I will just build a worker.
[...]
I would not want to delay currency for getting a worker a few turns earlier. I will settle the new city and then build worker in orleans for as many turns as is allowed while still getting currency in three turns.

Fair enough - I overlooked that we only have an unhappy citizen for one turn, since whip anger will recede. We do need that worker soon, but it's up to you to balance that with getting currency.

edit: what I meant about the unhappy citizen is that the food that is allocated to building a worker ignores unhappy and sometimes unhealthy citizens. The point is so that growing into unhappiness and then building a worker gives you the same output as building the worker before growing, removing a small amount of micromanagement.

 

[Folket]

I did not know that building workers makes the city eat less food if it is unhappy. That is so strange.

I will play until masonry when I get home.

 

[Folket]

Shall I try to trade
MC + Alphabet/gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism
as soon as I have currency?

It seems like a good idea to me.

 

[ZPV]

Shall I try to trade
MC + Alphabet/gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism
as soon as I have currency?

It seems like a good idea to me.

We need masonry to trade for Monotheism.
Separating the trades (so that we have enough gold to research Masonry in one turn) is an option.
Trading away our gold in significant quantities is usually the wrong thing to do, except in certain circumstances - accumulating and then trading gold is not much different to part-researching a tech to cheapen it in trade. Neither is as beneficial as offering an extra tech, but they are sometimes necessary in a pinch (e.g. in an Aesthetics<->Alphabet trade on higher levels).

edit: I'm happy for you to play when you're ready. Good luck!

 

[Folket]

T106
Christianity founded in a far away country.
Ramsess does no longer consider Brennus his worst enemy.
T107
Brennus demanded that we stop trading with Ramsess but I declined.
Currency in
T109
Masonry in

 

[Folket]

For some reason I though roads where 2 turns to build. I would have delayed the new city if I had known it was three turns.

 

[BLubmuz]

Well done, Folket.

Now, can we consider to build libraries in any city and barracks in the ones where we build our troops? 3 cities, at least. I think the early 3 and maybe the gems one, just because is mear to the front.

The barbs have also a worker in their city. Better try to take it quickly. I think we can build some archer, even if i did not verified if we have the tech.

For some reason I though roads where 2 turns to build. I would have delayed the new city if I had known it was three turns.

Roads are actually 2 turns, but 3 on desert and tundra. Don't remember if 3 also on ice or even 4.

 

[Shaandore]

Well played!

We need to figure out how to trade for mono and monarchy. We can get these from Rammy for Currency+Alpha. He would give 20 gold and Archery as a special gift. This would be nice since we could do a double civic change this turn to Hereditary rule and ORG religion.

We need to start building Aqueduct in Lyons ASAP, because Rammy might beat us to Hanging Gardens if we don't.

Lyons should grow now, and then switch to max production (working mines and forested PH) The forests S and W of the horse should be chopped into the HG. This way the two workers will have some time to catch up with the iron mine and the horse pasture.

As a rule of thumb we should build buildings while in Org Rel in every city that needs a building so we use the bonus.

Edit:
@Blub: definitely! Barracks in Rheims, Forge and Barracks in Tours. Library in Orleans (just because we will need universities, and Orleans is definitely a place that can build/whip one fast.) All these after switching to Org Rel though. And lighthouses in Rheims and Tours. (the Lyons lighthouse should wait after HG)

 

[Shaandore]

On tech path: we are just not in the optimal war starting phase. We need to wait for something more advanced than cats. My tech suggestion is:
Calendar->Code of Laws->Philosophy (tarde for Meditation before this)->Civil Service->backfill (Aesthetics, Literature), Feudalism, Machinery, Guilds

BTW don't we switch esp points on Rammy to see what he is researching? Brennus is not a tech competitor, and he will be dead sooner or later anyway.

 

[Folket]

How many more turns should I play. We need to decide on tech path. I would be fine with trading for monarchy and monotheism. Perhaps even archery from Brennus.

I would like to tech calendar and then construction.

 

[Shaandore]

We can get Archery if we want to from Rammy with the
Alpha+Currency <-> Monotheism+Monarchy+Archery+20gold trade.

I would consider trading only with Rammy from now on. That leaves Brennus in the dust technologically, which is beneficial for our upcoming war.

 

[ZPV]

Well played so far!

In Lyons, I think we'll put <10 hammers into the Aqueduct and then rush it for 3 population immediately after the revolt. The overflow and two forests will provide 180 of the required 300 hammers.

I'll investigate the code to see if there's a way to flip Metal Casting + gold to Ramesses for Monarchy + Mono. (As in, would we be able to get enough gold by begging for Brennus's gold, or even could we beg for Monotheism from Brennus?)

Ramesses has Theology. He founded Christianity.

In the turns before Iron is hooked up, Orleans needs to build another worker, rather than Wealth or Research. 7 are not enough for 6 cities. (Afterwards we want swords ASAP) I'd even consider delaying Calendar in favour of something else, if there were an economic tech cheaper than CoL+CS, because we'll struggle to get enough worker turns to connect our resources.

There are some forests to the southwest of Orleans. One or two of these would help nicely in building the worker and swords.

Rheims should work the gems immediately, and slow-build its library.

Paris just needs two more hammers in its market for it to be a 2-pop rush in organized religion. Since it's currently working an unimproved grassland and a hill, that's definitely worth it.

Tours should now whip its granary. The plains forest citizen doesn't have anything to do.