SGOTM 17 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

I do not think this changes anything to us but I want to hear the team.

So, that chariot did something good. Now let's try to see where he is. In any case if you met him we can reach him.
And yes, it changes nothing. Aside a research discount on machinery if we are not successful with our plan.

I would probably avoid the great spy. Yes let us put all EPs into Qin.

Agreed on the GSpy. Why all our EPs into Qin? if we attack Sury first - and we're almost forced to do so - isn't it better to use the spy to take down defenses? Or are we trying to steal another tech? I think that drama or theo are doable.

 

[Shaandore]

I think it's better to put it on Qin. Taking down defenses will be increasingly useful as more walls and cultural defense is set up. And there is also the tech stealing aspect of course.

 

[Folket]

I will do a calculation on how many EP we need to steal drama. If we can get it from Suryavarman it is proibably cheaper.

 

[Folket]

Good point on the discount on Machinery. That will probably make them give us money for philosophy instead us paying them 15 gold.

I do not see any way to get Japan to pleased and he will not open up his borders before that. But we can trade Qin some copper for sugar and gold. I would take that deal. Perhaps cancel the stone deal first?

 

[BLubmuz]

Good point on the discount on Machinery. That will probably make them give us money for philosophy instead us paying them 15 gold.

I do not see any way to get Japan to pleased and he will not open up his borders before that. But we can trade Qin some copper for sugar and gold. I would take that deal. Perhaps cancel the stone deal first?

I can't remember ATM, but i suppose that Qin has iron. If so, we don't need copper. Nor we need stone. He needs it for Notre Dame, let's hope he build it.
So Japan is just passed the mountains range? I'm even considering to enter his borders anyway, provided the chariot can flee away from his units. Or we can build another spy and move the one in Goldfoot to Japan. As soon as we know the map, as soon we can make a real long term plan. I suppose you agree that this is priceless.

 

[Folket]

Both Qin and Suryavarman has iron.

I can get a snapshot for you to see Japan when I get home.

But it seems like the mountain route behind China goes to Japan. I can see border over the mountain range but it also look like I can walk there but Japanese culture is blocking me. I do not think our chariot moving through the jungle in Japanese land would survive for long, but sending our spy there makes sense.

 

[BLubmuz]

But it seems like the mountain route behind China goes to Japan. I can see border over the mountain range but it also look like I can walk there but Japanese culture is blocking me. I do not think our chariot moving through the jungle in Japanese land would survive for long, but sending our spy there makes sense.

What i supposed. Surely i don't wanna risk a war to have nothing. Let's hope our spy is not caught by just passing through china and khmer. Once/if arrived inside japan his duty is to unfog land and find more passages. Keep it in Japan culture the minimum possible.

If you have time go ahead with your set, tempus fugit!

 

[Folket]

How long should my set be?

 

[Shaandore]

While there has been a lot of discussion, a PPP would be nice to see what you are planning to do with workers/cities.

 

[Folket]

I could produce that. Not much I will be able to do in two turns.

If I know how long my set should be I could give a PPP for it or at least a five turn miniset.

 

[BLubmuz]

I could produce that. Not much I will be able to do in two turns.

If I know how long my set should be I could give a PPP for it or at least a five turn miniset.

You can play 20/25 turns, or until you can trade philo. You played some 10 turns IIRC, so at least 10 more. Post a PPP and let's discuss it.

 

[Folket]

I will write the PPP tomorrow morning.

 

[Folket]

Question 1.
We can steal drama in 7 turns from Khmer. Is this higher priority then trying to get our spy to Japan? We could steal drama cheaper from the Chinese but I'm against that since it is slower and more chances to get caught going there.

 

[Folket]

PPP
research:
Finish philosophy (3 turns), then tech engineering after trades.

cities:
Aachen, run four specialists. great spy might not be bad, it will give us enough EP to steal engineering and guilds.
Prague, build units, trying to grow to health cap.
Vienna, slow build rauthaus, then slow build aqueducts.
Nuremberg, slow build market then slow build aqueducts.
Augsburg, build chariot, build archer, whip elephant, Mainz, 1 turn GL, 1 turn catapult, whip catapult, Finish GL, then slow build aqueducts.
Ulm, build on forge while growing, when there is excess pop I will whip the forge.
Djenne, 2 pop whip a spy. overflow into forge and grow.
Timbuktu, slow build forge.
Gao, whip the forge then three people work water tiles.
Goldfoot, whip granary ASAP.
Florence, whip library, then slow build a forge.
Niani, whip granary when able and then start a rauthaus.
Kumbi Saleh, whip forge at size 6.
Walata, whip worker then continue on rauthaus when able. Then start on forge.
Pisa, whip granary when there is not enough tiles to work. then start a rauthaus.
Hades Anvil, whip workboat, then granary.

workers:
Chain farms to Prague rice, chain farms to Timbuktu rice.

Trades:
sell copper to China for suger and 3 gpt.
Once we have philosophy buy Machinery from China first then buy Feudalism from Khmer.

espionage:
Steal drama from Khmer.

 

[Folket]

We could steal engineering for 921 EP from China or tech it for 1462 beakers. With beaker discount it is probably cheaper to tech but we already have 200 ep in China.

Question 2.
There is someone else that Khmer and Chinese have met, otherwise they would be willing to trade drama. Shall our chariot wait at the Japanese border and hope we meet them or map out the rest of Chinese territory?

 

[Shaandore]

PPP
research:
Finish philosophy (3 turns), then tech engineering after trades.

cities:
Aachen, run four specialists. great spy might not be bad, it will give us enough EP to steal engineering and guilds. Agreed
Prague, build units, trying to grow to health cap. That's why HE here would be faster... it already has its forge
Vienna, slow build rauthaus, then slow build aqueducts. Rathaus will bring 5.25 gpt. I think that this is not an important build. I'd rather slowbuild units (or wealth), so we can get started with the war sooner. Same for Aqueducts: we will have plenty of health resources.
Nuremberg, slow build market then slow build aqueducts. units are better than aqueducts
Augsburg, build chariot, build archer, whip elephant, Maybe we could do a worker here after the chariot
Mainz, 1 turn GL, 1 turn catapult, whip catapult, Finish GL, then slow build aqueducts. We will obviously need National Epic here, and buildings that give specialist slots. Again, I'd prefer this before any aqueducts
Ulm, build on forge while growing, when there is excess pop I will whip the forge.
Djenne, 2 pop whip a spy. overflow into forge and grow. We should reconsider Prague for HE, that building is extremely improtant, and Djenne is far from being able to build it
Timbuktu, slow build forge.
Gao, whip the forge then three people work water tiles.
Goldfoot, whip granary ASAP.
Florence, whip library, then slow build a forge.
Niani, whip granary when able and then start a rauthaus.
Kumbi Saleh, whip forge at size 6.
Walata, whip worker then continue on rauthaus when able. Then start on forge.
Pisa, whip granary when there is not enough tiles to work. then start a rauthaus.
Hades Anvil, whip workboat, then granary.

workers:
Chain farms to Prague rice, chain farms to Timbuktu rice. We should build a couple more farms around Prague so we can do some whipping there

Trades:
sell copper to China for suger and 3 gpt.
Once we have philosophy buy Machinery from China first then buy Feudalism from Khmer.

espionage:
Steal drama from Khmer.

As for your question: chances are that the other guy next to Toku also has closed borders with him, so we won't meet him just by standing there. I guess we have a better chance of meeting him from the north. I'd rahther map Qin's territory.

 

[Folket]

As for question 1 then?

I agree that mapping territory is a better use of our time.

 

[Shaandore]

Okay with Khmer stealing. I would say they are equally important, so I would try and make 1 or 2 more spies. Maybe Mainz could 2-whip a spy instead of catapult? When I proposed axe I forgot that it alreqady has Forge. But spy with 1 hammer in it could be 2-whipped for 36(?) overflow hammers. Goldfoot could whip a spy too, with OF into granary.

BTW do we meet a civ by getting a spy to their territory? I'm not sure about this.

 

[Folket]

Good question. My recent experience is that we do not but that was a mod.

btw, I do not think the fourth civ has closed borders with Tokugawa since they have met Suryavarman that has closed borders with Tokugawa.

 

[Shaandore]

It would be nice to meet them then. But waiting around Toku's border doesn't seem like a good option still. If they send a unit there, it will most likely enter Qin's borders too, so we have a good chance of meeting it while mapping Qin's area.