SGOTM 17 - Fifth Element

[Shaandore]

I got a new GG. Settle in Augsburg, okay?

EDIT: Traded Nat+75 gold to Peter for Lib

 

[BLubmuz]

I got a new GG. Settle in Augsburg, okay?

EDIT: Traded Nat+75 gold to Peter for Lib

A little cryptic as a report

GG: isn't Prague our HE city?
Augsburg has the Globe to whip units... see you which city can produce more units, also in future. Think to paras.

Let me understand: Peter gave us Nat+75g for Lib? Because we were researching it?
OK, move to Constitution. I'm still confident to obtain PP in the peace deal with Sury.

 

[Shaandore]

Save attached. Our luck is on holiday after getting us steel: we got a second GS. Ulm will get us our next GP, most likely not a GS, but we will see.

We will have the last of Sury's southern cities next turn, and we can regroup in those 10 turns, and attack Qin with the bazillion Cannons we have. We are doing very well on war front, shipping and logistics is tedious though. Sury will give us eerything he has IMO so no need to bulb PP, we should use the bulb for SciMEth or Biology/Physics whatever.

We have some Happy issues (Emancipation+war) but war weariness will go away next turn after the peace deal. Had to switch back to 1 turn of 0%, but we will have constitution soon.

On the west we have enough cannons to start a war, currently I'm shipping some other units to go with them. The dye will be godsent once it's hooked up, that's why I shipped some workers too. A small stack is waiting for some more units to go and get the barb cities.

I've been trying to pillage around in Sury's land, but he had units scattered everywhere so there are quite a few tiles that could still bring some money.

Augs brings us far more production than the HE city. Which is okay.

I've been workshopping a little since some of our cities are getting serious whip anger, which coupled with WW and Emancipation was a trouble. I had to 3-whip some Markets in some places, which helped a lot.

EDIT: yes, we had one turn in Nat. Agree, PP from Sury.

I'll write a PPP tomorrow (actually, today since it's 1:13 AM here )

 

[BLubmuz]

Augs brings us far more production than the HE city. Which is okay.

OK, i see, but give it a breath.

I never seen a thing like that: 5 GPro settled and 1 GG in Yasoda. Just great. it's 37gpt in 8 turns (end of revolt), not counting the 1gpt from the free priest! It's a great WS site!

With 3 SM-obsolete-WW it's better use a GS for part of physics or for a 3GP Gage later.
Ulm is almost certain for a non GS. It's 11 turns and you have no margin to decrease without lose pop. Better wait and have another one sooner.
Mainz can have another one in 11 turns without actually starve. Time it to arrive after Ulm.

I noticed that Yayoi has walls and is on a hill. We have cannons this time, so it won't matter much. We have time, so bombard it below 10% before to attack. BTW, fast moving units are good also for pillage, mainly mature cottages.

In the meantime, Qin has GP and MT... not good, cuirass are a damn for our cannons. Better build a couple WE and LK. Also Church and Peter have Chem.
Better plan a 2 front war or they become too advanced. Qin already is, to my taste.

A galley defeated a caravel: a good stroke of luck! err... ability.
Sury offers Econ+Theo+Wm+150g for peace. After the fall of nagara we can have more. Do not bombard it if he has only 2 LBs: sacrifice the cat first, then the treb, so the cannon can have a chance and take it next turn, then tell us what he gives for peace... or what he gave if you see it's enough.

I still like to know what UT demanded to Peter and Toku

 

[Folket]

I think we should trade chemistry to Russia.

After Nagara we make peace and attack China as soon as our units are healed.

 

[Folket]

Let us get wall street in Yasodharapura.

 

[Shaandore]

Qin looks like trouble with Cuirs. We should keep one big stack until Beijing is ours. In my experience it is key to succesful war if the enemy has good counter units. Having multiple smaller stack is just what he needs to kill our units with Cuirs.

I could try and pillage his horse with spies.

I wouldn't trade anything to Peter before getting the Peace deal with Sury.

 

[BLubmuz]

I could try and pillage his horse with spies.

I wouldn't trade anything to Peter before getting the Peace deal with Sury.

Good idea to pillage horses with spies. Or iron which is needed for cuirs and melee. Or both. I can see sec bureaus on his cities. Be careful.

I suppose he's building the SoL, which would be a great target to conquer. With our copper and being industrious it won't take long hopefully. He can be working on that by some 20 turns now.

I agree to not trade any tech to Peter. But not only until the peace deal. Never more. Firstly after the peace deal he won't have much to offer, second i don't wanna give him a tech which opens military techs like chem.

Then, yes i think that after our units are haealed we must declare on Qin.
We must keep a few defenders in Goldfoot and Angkor and a good stack in the soon ours Nagara and move on. A single SoD moving CCW from Nagara: Ghuang, Bei, Shangai, Nanjing, Xian. Chengdu can be left to see what he offers for peace. In any case we can attack Sury from Xian and Goldfoot to take his last 2 cities at the same time. The war will last longer than the forced peace. We must prioritize this front and send only few untis for the barb cities. Russia can wait. And we must be ready to an attack from Japan. But some good unit in the choke there are enough to keep him at bay: 2 muskets, 2 LK and 3 cannons to avoid collateral are enough.

We must push now.

About research, after the peace deal we can go for RP and rifling.

And build a Theatre in Timbu! And road the W fort

 

[Shaandore]

Too tired to write a detailed PPP today, but to move on tomorrow at least, I propose a short TS:

- Get the last southern city of Sury, and make a peace deal. Get PP, Econ, and anything else he offers. Heal the units, unite the stacks, then gear up against Qin. Leave some guys around goldfoot/Angkor for possible counterattacks.
- Get spies into position to pillage strat resources.
- don't bulb anything with the two GScientists for now.
- continue building and shipping units for the fronts, whil ebuilding wealth in a few places to keep research going
- research Constitution

If all the above is done, stop.

Questions: Do I revolt to Rep ASAP, or wait for Ulm's GP?

The plan is to play this short TS tomorrow, then report and write a full PPP, so I can hopefully finish my TS on Thursday.

 

[BLubmuz]

Too tired to write a detailed PPP today, but to move on tomorrow at least, I propose a short TS:

- Get the last southern city of Sury, and make a peace deal. Get PP, Econ, and anything else he offers. Heal the units, unite the stacks, then gear up against Qin. Leave some guys around goldfoot/Angkor for possible counterattacks.
Goldfoot is our "gathering point", so it will always have a few units. But you got it.
Nagara is where our main army already is and the forced path to China it will always be decently garrisoned. The only problem can be Angkor, which surely needs a few units. Yasoda is behind Nagara, so no problem.

- Get spies into position to pillage strat resources.
- don't bulb anything with the two GScientists for now.
- continue building and shipping units for the fronts, whil ebuilding wealth in a few places to keep research going
- research Constitution

If all the above is done, stop.

Questions: Do I revolt to Rep ASAP, or wait for Ulm's GP?

The plan is to play this short TS tomorrow, then report and write a full PPP, so I can hopefully finish my TS on Thursday.

I think that the most important thing will happen in next turn: the peace deal with Sury. Once we know what we have obtained we have all the infos we need.

I'm confident that with the conquest gold we can have Const. in 2 turns. But try to reach this target. If you set most of our cites to whealth for this turn you can run 60% research and with the conquest gold you can do it.

Representation:
We're running Merc, so any city runs a spec.=22 (counting Angkor). We have 16 more hired, not counting the ones in the cities still in revolt and the settled GPs, so 38.
We have 2 turns to constitution and 11 to next GP. So 9 turns. The revolt will cost us 1 turn, but we can have 38*3*9= 1026 raw beakers added in that period.
I think it's worth to revolt. It's 1.5 turns of research @100% and we're slightly >20% break even. So the payoff is in less than 7 turns. And this won't affect the cities in revolt.

Agreed on the rest.

I noticed that Pisa is 2 turns from a knight without barracks. Finish it and use it for the barbs. Then build a library or a market.

Mainz can hire 1 more spec, maybe an eng? and work a mine instead of 3F, or hire 2 specs and... or... it's your TS.

Give precedence to the units for China, but continue to send a few for the barbs. And don't forget the barbs mean also a strong foothold in Russia.
Build LBs!!! They're cheap and the best defensive unit we can have in a city.

 

[Folket]

I say build cannons. They are better defence then LBs unless the culture defence is very high and we have other uses for them. Blubmuz is not ambitious enough. We need more offence.

 

[Shaandore]

LBs are the cheapest MP we can have, so having a few to put one in each city is a good thing. But no more than that, for real defense we have better units, that are also useful when attacking.

I will do the revolt then. Research wise it's worth it, and I think it's a tie if we take production and food loss into account.

 

[Folket]

You should see in demographics how many hammers we have. If we have less then 500 hammers a revolt is definitely better.

 

[BLubmuz]

I say build cannons. They are better defence then LBs unless the culture defence is very high and we have other uses for them. Blubmuz is not ambitious enough. We need more offence.

It's a question of hammers/benefit: we do not need cannons as MP and LBs cost exactly an half a cannon. LBs are also good to keep the choke with Japan.

With 21 cannons we don't need much more. Some WE and/or LK for mounted defense and some mace to mop up. if we can use the tactic i described days ago but with cannons instead of catapults we can use even archers to mop up.

Later we need some spare cannons in Goldfoot to attack simultaneously Isva (from east) after we take Xian and attack Raja from west. Then we can ferry them to our homeland to reinforce the army for Russia. Then Japan needs a single big SoD, being a forced path with no chances of counterattacks.

Once conquered all the AIs but England we can disband the most of our army and wait for paras.

 

[BLubmuz]

I will do the revolt then. Research wise it's worth it, and I think it's a tie if we take production and food loss into account.

You should see in demographics how many hammers we have. If we have less then 500 hammers a revolt is definitely better.

I don't see how food is important. F9 says 282 production, so we're far below the limit you gave.

We must also take in account that many cities will benefit from the Rep happy bonus, Timbu and Prague mainly.

 

[Shaandore]

Food is important because it is our main source of production via whips. IIRC growth also stagnates while in Anarchy. 230 hammers- for sure, but we make much more by using the whip. Eg a city with +10 food surplus essentially makes 20 extra hammers if whipped properly.

 

[BLubmuz]

Food is important because it is our main source of production via whips. IIRC growth also stagnates while in Anarchy. 230 hammers- for sure, but we make much more by using the whip. Eg a city with +10 food surplus essentially makes 20 extra hammers if whipped properly.

Everything stagnates in anarchy: growth, great people generation, production and research. I still think that we must revolt, being research the bottleneck for this game. It's hard to keep the growth into account because the whip has many other factors: turns to completion, happiness and so on. Then, not every city will whip for various reasons.

On less important details: you can kill the LB in flatland with a Kn in the Yasoda stack and move the GG chariot to join the Nagara stack. The other units in the Yasoda stack can move 1W to arrive in Nagara next turn, after the conquest, so we gain 1 turn to heal and 1 turn in movement. Keep a healthy cannon with the 2 unmovable units.

 

[Shaandore]

Agree on revolt

I'll do the medic swap.

 

[Folket]

I agree with Shaandore. Food is worth many hammers. But I doubt we have 250 surplus food a turn that would be needed to make up for the lost research.

 

[Shaandore]

mini TS done.
bad news:
- we need 2 turns to revolt, so we need to reconsider waiting 9 turns (actually we can do it in 8 turns if we hire a scientist for only 1 turn)
- The best I could get from Sury was PP+Optics (He wasn't willing to give PP+Econ).
- Sury has a settling stack coming towards the old spot of Harihalaya
- We are worst enemy of Japan

good news:
- PP did help a lot, now we break even at ~40%
- we are ready to take Khazak next turn
- one spy is in position to destroy Qin's horses when we declare, and one other is on its way to pilage the iron soon after
- our stack will be ready to move towards Qin next tur.
- Happy problems are gone for now with the end of the war.
- forts are ready so we can move to the west.

Save coming soon.