Galleon 4 needs to move to Phrygian.
SGOTM 21 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Galleon 4 needs to move to Phrygian.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
That's unfortunate that Louis went into Mercantilism.
Once we have completed The Kremlin or are about to, we might want to trade him and Mao up to and including Communism, so that they can be bribed into State Property.
Theology is unfortunate, too, but we can just gift Louis some Confucian Missionaries and let him spread Confucianism around.
One nice thing is that Louis and Mao love each other, which means that if Louis gets a tech, Mao might be able to get it, and then with enough Liberations, Mao might give that tech to us.
Shaka's Copper is under his capital. So, it would be nice to capture his capital at the start of the war.
I don't mind if Shaka builds Horse Archers (he can't build Knights without Iron), especially since we have several War Elephants. Better Horse Archers than Longbowmen, as was the case at London when Elizabeth foolishly spammed Horse Archer defenders. Those Horse Archers died quite readily.
It would be NICE to get Confucianism in The Hague, so we can try to build another Missionary domestically. If nothing else, it would be nice for building a Library and a University there.
Soon, though, we're going to have to say "nice isn't good enough, do we really need that build item?"
Once we have The Kremlin, whipping of Buildings can help, and excess Hammers can get dumped into Galleons, as almost any City can build a Galleon, with so many coastal Cities. But, do we really need to buy another Missionary? For a couple of Elizabeth's Cities, I would say "yes," to keep her out of Hinduism when we gift her those Cities. Which Cities? It probably doesn't matter, except not York or London, as those Cities have Wonders in them.
We move on Shaka whenever:
1. We're done with City Liberations for Elizabeth
AND
2. We have Military Units in position at Shaka
Point 2. probably means a force to drop off at Shaka's capital of Ulundi and enough units to guard our Cities from Shaka's incoming units.
The Settler from Hun could settle on the Ice Hills For that is NE + E + E of Hun. We have a Horse Archer there to guard such a Settler. Other Settlers just settle in the area around there, such as SE + SE + S of that spot, SW + S + S + S of that spot, and NW + N + N of that spot.
I'll have to look closer to see if we will want to use the QE Galleon for chaining, for attacking, or perhaps both.
Certainly, since it looks like we aren't going to spread Buddhism to Piscatorium, we could use our Caravel to send a Hindu Missionary somewhere.
That spot could be Phrygian (the Barb City near Louis).
Technically, we could build our Tanks and then give away Stone City, but there would be a risk in doing so, thus it's probably better to make Phrygian our Hindu gift City for Louis.
The next AP vote should be for the AP Elections. As long as we control York on that turn, we should easily be able to vote for ourselves (Pericles, not Shaka) to be the next AP Resident.
If we want to dump EPs on Shaka, it would be nice to actually have more than 6 EPs per turn, otherwise they'll never do anything but encourage him to spend more EPs on us. I'm not convinced that it's worth spending our Commerce on EPs, so we could simply plan to send our Spies to Shaka and use them as scouts, and if they die, then they die.
Our Settlers shouldn't need Workers, as we'll want to Liberate the Cities immediately, as we can't put much Culture into those Cities and being at Size 1 won't allow us to Whip anything with the help of a Chop like we plan to do at Hun.
I was thinking that we'd get Rifling in trade. But, teching it after Physics would certainly be an option for having an insanely easy was vs Shaka, if we don't mind slowing down our tech pace for 5 turns, to switch from Bureaucracy into Nationalism for 5 turns, then Drafting a whole pile of Riflemen. If we're going to Draft our Gunpowder units, they might as well be Riflemen, since the cost in population points is identical for Musketmen and Riflemen.
Bureaucracy earns us about 150 Flasks per turn, while self-teching Rifling if we'd otherwise get it in trade sets us behind by another 3900 Flasks.
That said, if we don't build Riflemen, we'll need Musketmen for Catherine, but Musketmen are terrible City attackers.
So, overall, I like the idea of self-teching Rifling, although one problem is that we need to really get a rush on getting Mao up to Friendly status, as he must be Friendly toward us if we want to get Gunpowder out of him, and Gunpowder is a pre-requisite tech for Rifling.
Well, the compromise made with CP was that we'd have an extra war against Eliabeth and thus would likely lose less Buildings and get some of our Elizabeth Cities out of City Revolt sooner. It's +3 Diplo per war with the 4-City-Liberations approach, so we should only need 1 more war after the current one.
If we're at all serious about going for Rifling, then we need to focus really hard on getting Settlers to Mao as soon as possible.
Once we have completed The Kremlin or are about to, we might want to trade him and Mao up to and including Communism, so that they can be bribed into State Property.
Theology is unfortunate, too, but we can just gift Louis some Confucian Missionaries and let him spread Confucianism around.
One nice thing is that Louis and Mao love each other, which means that if Louis gets a tech, Mao might be able to get it, and then with enough Liberations, Mao might give that tech to us.
Shaka's Copper is under his capital. So, it would be nice to capture his capital at the start of the war.
I don't mind if Shaka builds Horse Archers (he can't build Knights without Iron), especially since we have several War Elephants. Better Horse Archers than Longbowmen, as was the case at London when Elizabeth foolishly spammed Horse Archer defenders. Those Horse Archers died quite readily.
It would be NICE to get Confucianism in The Hague, so we can try to build another Missionary domestically. If nothing else, it would be nice for building a Library and a University there.
Soon, though, we're going to have to say "nice isn't good enough, do we really need that build item?"
Once we have The Kremlin, whipping of Buildings can help, and excess Hammers can get dumped into Galleons, as almost any City can build a Galleon, with so many coastal Cities. But, do we really need to buy another Missionary? For a couple of Elizabeth's Cities, I would say "yes," to keep her out of Hinduism when we gift her those Cities. Which Cities? It probably doesn't matter, except not York or London, as those Cities have Wonders in them.
We move on Shaka whenever:
1. We're done with City Liberations for Elizabeth
AND
2. We have Military Units in position at Shaka
Point 2. probably means a force to drop off at Shaka's capital of Ulundi and enough units to guard our Cities from Shaka's incoming units.
The Settler from Hun could settle on the Ice Hills For that is NE + E + E of Hun. We have a Horse Archer there to guard such a Settler. Other Settlers just settle in the area around there, such as SE + SE + S of that spot, SW + S + S + S of that spot, and NW + N + N of that spot.
I'll have to look closer to see if we will want to use the QE Galleon for chaining, for attacking, or perhaps both.
Certainly, since it looks like we aren't going to spread Buddhism to Piscatorium, we could use our Caravel to send a Hindu Missionary somewhere.
That spot could be Phrygian (the Barb City near Louis).
Technically, we could build our Tanks and then give away Stone City, but there would be a risk in doing so, thus it's probably better to make Phrygian our Hindu gift City for Louis.
The next AP vote should be for the AP Elections. As long as we control York on that turn, we should easily be able to vote for ourselves (Pericles, not Shaka) to be the next AP Resident.
If we want to dump EPs on Shaka, it would be nice to actually have more than 6 EPs per turn, otherwise they'll never do anything but encourage him to spend more EPs on us. I'm not convinced that it's worth spending our Commerce on EPs, so we could simply plan to send our Spies to Shaka and use them as scouts, and if they die, then they die.
Our Settlers shouldn't need Workers, as we'll want to Liberate the Cities immediately, as we can't put much Culture into those Cities and being at Size 1 won't allow us to Whip anything with the help of a Chop like we plan to do at Hun.
I was thinking that we'd get Rifling in trade. But, teching it after Physics would certainly be an option for having an insanely easy was vs Shaka, if we don't mind slowing down our tech pace for 5 turns, to switch from Bureaucracy into Nationalism for 5 turns, then Drafting a whole pile of Riflemen. If we're going to Draft our Gunpowder units, they might as well be Riflemen, since the cost in population points is identical for Musketmen and Riflemen.
Bureaucracy earns us about 150 Flasks per turn, while self-teching Rifling if we'd otherwise get it in trade sets us behind by another 3900 Flasks.
That said, if we don't build Riflemen, we'll need Musketmen for Catherine, but Musketmen are terrible City attackers.
So, overall, I like the idea of self-teching Rifling, although one problem is that we need to really get a rush on getting Mao up to Friendly status, as he must be Friendly toward us if we want to get Gunpowder out of him, and Gunpowder is a pre-requisite tech for Rifling.
Well, the compromise made with CP was that we'd have an extra war against Eliabeth and thus would likely lose less Buildings and get some of our Elizabeth Cities out of City Revolt sooner. It's +3 Diplo per war with the 4-City-Liberations approach, so we should only need 1 more war after the current one.
If we're at all serious about going for Rifling, then we need to focus really hard on getting Settlers to Mao as soon as possible.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
I find it really challenging to plan 10 turns in advance when there are still a lot of loose ends.
For example, we don't want to forget about building the Hermitage or the Heroic Epic and then complete it in the wrong City in our rush to get through the turns.
We don't want to miss out on chances such as being able to Liberate Hun to Qin, which will have a 1 to 2 turn window in which it must happen.
We're almost done with the Elizabeth wars, which will help.
Liberating Hun and the Settler whipped from there will give us +3 with Mao, and Liberating 2 Galleon-chained Settlers will give us another +3 with Mao.
I think that there's a 7-Diplo difference between Pleased and Friendly. Mao was Cautious toward us at +3, so those 4 City-Liberations should either just put us at Friendly or just short of Friendly.
10 turns is a LONG time. 9 turns ago, we were almost broke and fortunately had had the idea to use our Great Merchant. Now, we're in a Golden Age and almost have our next Golden Age. However, we only just had the idea of going for Rifling, which might have been too late to think about 10 turns from now.
I think that we'll just have to keep putting out plans quickly, having someone ready to jump in and play soon after a plan gets made, then try to make another plan shortly after the turnset gets played.
I can try to put out another plan soon. If I'm not too tired, I can play through it and then try to put out another plan. If I am too tired, then I can just leave the plan there for whoever is available to jump in next.
For example, we don't want to forget about building the Hermitage or the Heroic Epic and then complete it in the wrong City in our rush to get through the turns.
We don't want to miss out on chances such as being able to Liberate Hun to Qin, which will have a 1 to 2 turn window in which it must happen.
We're almost done with the Elizabeth wars, which will help.
Liberating Hun and the Settler whipped from there will give us +3 with Mao, and Liberating 2 Galleon-chained Settlers will give us another +3 with Mao.
I think that there's a 7-Diplo difference between Pleased and Friendly. Mao was Cautious toward us at +3, so those 4 City-Liberations should either just put us at Friendly or just short of Friendly.
10 turns is a LONG time. 9 turns ago, we were almost broke and fortunately had had the idea to use our Great Merchant. Now, we're in a Golden Age and almost have our next Golden Age. However, we only just had the idea of going for Rifling, which might have been too late to think about 10 turns from now.
I think that we'll just have to keep putting out plans quickly, having someone ready to jump in and play soon after a plan gets made, then try to make another plan shortly after the turnset gets played.
I can try to put out another plan soon. If I'm not too tired, I can play through it and then try to put out another plan. If I am too tired, then I can just leave the plan there for whoever is available to jump in next.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
What should we do for Military Police units at Elizabeth?
Should we put a rush on The Kremlin by Chopping our Deer and Fur? Maybe just by hiring an Engineer Specialist to speed it up by 1 turn is sufficient?
Two Chops, if done shortly before completing The Kremlin, will speed up its completion by 2 turns. Is being able to whip build items 2 turns sooner a good enough thing to be worth sabotating 2 squares that we'll probably keep working until the end of the game for base Hammers that get multiplied through Hammer multipliers? Maybe, as that would mean Whipping Buildings such as Libraries or Harbours sooner in other Cities.
Should we be planning on trading Mao and Louis up to having Communism on the turn when we will complete The Kremlin?
Note that Galleon 4 was temporarily staying in Sparta (Stone City) so as to heal our War Elephant. We can easily sail southward out of that City.
At some point, we'll want to complete The Heroic Epic in Surfin' Turf, but the priority on doing so is much lower if we're going to target Riflemen.
Also, Utrecht will soon be able to build the Hermitage.
We can either delay completing those National Wonders or we can try to make use of them sooner.
Utrecht should definitely hire 2 Artists now that we're at Size 10, then hire 2 more once we've complete The Taj Mahal -> Odeon.
It's important to try to get our next Great Person out of this City, after which point we could temporarily grow the City and then rehire Specialists, or else just keep the Specialists hired.
We have 1 more Forest to Chop at Utrecht into The Taj Mahal.
If we're going to use our Spies on Elizabeth, next turn would be the last turn to do so. I suppose that we don't want to risk angering her for something small like 30 Gold from a stolen treasury, thus I suppose that we won't do anything to her with our Spies.
Should we put a rush on The Kremlin by Chopping our Deer and Fur? Maybe just by hiring an Engineer Specialist to speed it up by 1 turn is sufficient?
Two Chops, if done shortly before completing The Kremlin, will speed up its completion by 2 turns. Is being able to whip build items 2 turns sooner a good enough thing to be worth sabotating 2 squares that we'll probably keep working until the end of the game for base Hammers that get multiplied through Hammer multipliers? Maybe, as that would mean Whipping Buildings such as Libraries or Harbours sooner in other Cities.
Should we be planning on trading Mao and Louis up to having Communism on the turn when we will complete The Kremlin?
Note that Galleon 4 was temporarily staying in Sparta (Stone City) so as to heal our War Elephant. We can easily sail southward out of that City.
At some point, we'll want to complete The Heroic Epic in Surfin' Turf, but the priority on doing so is much lower if we're going to target Riflemen.
Also, Utrecht will soon be able to build the Hermitage.
We can either delay completing those National Wonders or we can try to make use of them sooner.
Utrecht should definitely hire 2 Artists now that we're at Size 10, then hire 2 more once we've complete The Taj Mahal -> Odeon.
It's important to try to get our next Great Person out of this City, after which point we could temporarily grow the City and then rehire Specialists, or else just keep the Specialists hired.
We have 1 more Forest to Chop at Utrecht into The Taj Mahal.
If we're going to use our Spies on Elizabeth, next turn would be the last turn to do so. I suppose that we don't want to risk angering her for something small like 30 Gold from a stolen treasury, thus I suppose that we won't do anything to her with our Spies.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
Are we ever going to switch into Pacifism? I'm thinking that we won't, as we only really plan to get 1 more Great Person out of Piscatorium, and it's not too far off, as well as 1 to 2 Great People out of Utrecht.
Are we ever going to switch into Theocracy? Theocracy plus Drafting only gives +1 XP per Rifleman, which probably isn't really worth it.
Galleons require 5 XP before they can actually gain +1 movement point, so I don't really see Theocracy working all that well, especially since it only works in Confucian Cities.
I don't see us ever having enough Workshops to make Caste System sufficiently worthwhile.
It might be a tough call as to whether to stay in Hereditary Rule or to switch into Representation once we learn Constitution from Mansa. Hereditary Rule is essentially +1 Happiness everywhere (since we will pretty much have a Military Police Unit in every City) and additional Happiness where we need it, while Representation is a fickle beast who can give you +3 Happiness or can leave a City "stranded" where it needs Happiness but 5 other Cities are larger and now it's stuck with Unhappy people and can't grow into the top 5 Cities.
With only, say, 3 Specialists in Piscatorium, 1 in Hippos, and 3 in Utrecht, that's only 7 * 3 = 21 base Flasks per turn... helpful, and it's probably more like 3 * 3 * 1.5 + 3 * 3 * 1.25 + 1 * 3 * 1 = 13.5 + 11.25 + 3 = 27.75 Flasks per turn... but, if we have Unhappy people, we'd miss out on Food and Commerce, so Representation will probably only make sense if we know that we won't have any Unhappy people. There's also a 6 GPT additional cost to running the Civic.
Perhaps we'd go into Representation when it's available in trade, then go into Nationalism + Hereditary Rule roughly 5 turns later, or as soon as we can get Rifling?
I suppose that 3 Spearman, 1 Longbowman, 1 Chariot, and 1 War Elephant can be the Military Police units on Elizabeth's original island, with Nottingham, the City that Shaka attacked when Elizabeth owned it, getting the Longbowman or the War Elephant (although an Impi could mess up a War Elephant, so probably the Longbowman).
Are we ever going to switch into Theocracy? Theocracy plus Drafting only gives +1 XP per Rifleman, which probably isn't really worth it.
Galleons require 5 XP before they can actually gain +1 movement point, so I don't really see Theocracy working all that well, especially since it only works in Confucian Cities.
I don't see us ever having enough Workshops to make Caste System sufficiently worthwhile.
It might be a tough call as to whether to stay in Hereditary Rule or to switch into Representation once we learn Constitution from Mansa. Hereditary Rule is essentially +1 Happiness everywhere (since we will pretty much have a Military Police Unit in every City) and additional Happiness where we need it, while Representation is a fickle beast who can give you +3 Happiness or can leave a City "stranded" where it needs Happiness but 5 other Cities are larger and now it's stuck with Unhappy people and can't grow into the top 5 Cities.
With only, say, 3 Specialists in Piscatorium, 1 in Hippos, and 3 in Utrecht, that's only 7 * 3 = 21 base Flasks per turn... helpful, and it's probably more like 3 * 3 * 1.5 + 3 * 3 * 1.25 + 1 * 3 * 1 = 13.5 + 11.25 + 3 = 27.75 Flasks per turn... but, if we have Unhappy people, we'd miss out on Food and Commerce, so Representation will probably only make sense if we know that we won't have any Unhappy people. There's also a 6 GPT additional cost to running the Civic.
Perhaps we'd go into Representation when it's available in trade, then go into Nationalism + Hereditary Rule roughly 5 turns later, or as soon as we can get Rifling?
I suppose that 3 Spearman, 1 Longbowman, 1 Chariot, and 1 War Elephant can be the Military Police units on Elizabeth's original island, with Nottingham, the City that Shaka attacked when Elizabeth owned it, getting the Longbowman or the War Elephant (although an Impi could mess up a War Elephant, so probably the Longbowman).
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
When will we settle additional Cities for our own purposes? Will we bother? There's a setup cost in terms of time. Capturing Shaka's Cities will probably pay off more than will settling additional Cities of our own.
If we had a billion Worker turns, we could, say, place a City 2W of our G Corn and then quickly grow into working some Watermills, but we don't have that many spare Worker turns, nor do we have spare Settlers.
It could be nice to get a Settler for William's Gems Mine, though. From where would we get such a Settler? Maybe New Amsterdam can whip one?
If we had a billion Worker turns, we could, say, place a City 2W of our G Corn and then quickly grow into working some Watermills, but we don't have that many spare Worker turns, nor do we have spare Settlers.
It could be nice to get a Settler for William's Gems Mine, though. From where would we get such a Settler? Maybe New Amsterdam can whip one?
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
PPP
Current plan: I'll go to bed for a couple of hours to await feedback and then I'll wake up to address any comments and play forward a couple of turns. If I haven't posted anything after 3 hours from the timestamp of this message, assume that I slept through my alarm and that the PPP is then open for someone else to grab.
Build queues:
X-ops: Customs House -> Wealth?
Gems: Cat -> Odeon -> Harbour?
Surfin' Turf: Failure Gold -> Theatre? Customs House? Confucian Temple?
City 4: Settler -> Barracks -> Failure Gold
Athens: Wealth, steal a couple of Coast squares until X-ops needs them back
Piscatorium: Failure Gold -> Customs House?
Hippos: The Kremlin
Utrecht: The Taj Mahal -> Odeon -> Hermitage
Sleepy Sheep: Lighthouse -> Forge
New Amsterdam: Whip a Settler
The Hague: Hindu Missionary -> Barracks and Longbowmen/Crossbowmen City Defenders?
Marble: Confucian Missionaries
Bethlehem: Wealth
Hun: Settler... must be ready to whip it soon
Sparta: Wealth
Elizabeth's Cities: Culture then Granaries/Lighthouses/Libraries
Workers
New Amsterdam area: 1S of New Amsterdam Farm, 1SW of New Amsterdam Watermill, P Riv Watermills
Gems area: P Farms
Hippos area: G Workshop
Surfin' Turf area: G Riv Watermill
The Hague area: Road for Military Units, Chop, then Workshops
Utrecht area: Gems Mine, SE + S Watermill
Sparta area: Road and Plantation the next Incense, then Road and Fort the Oil
Hun: Chop into Hun
Marble: Build a couple of Roads (NW and NW + NW of Marble) to speed up the passage of Missionaries, then keep Chopping
Trade:
Mao's 10 GPT <-> Incense
(We will connect a second Incense quite soon)
Trade:
Shaka's 5 GPT <-> Pig
Watch for a Corn Resource to become available for trade to Louis again (easy come, easy go)
Sell techs for bargain-basement prices... we won't be fighting a lot more wars, so we might as well take the AIs' Gold while it's available (not for 20 Gold, but 40 Gold or higher is not that unreasonable)
Hun Settler:
T155 Chop Forest
T156 Whip Hun
T157 Liberate Hun to Mao
Elizabeth War:
T155 or as soon as Elizabeth will talk, perform the Cease Firing, Liberating, and Recapturing of the 4 Cities:
Warwick
Canterbury
Hastings
Nottingham
Keep an eye out for Gold to trade to AIs
Settlers for Mao:
Chain 2 of them and the Hindu Missionary from Galleon 1 to Galleon 2 (well, adding +1 Settler this way to Galleon 2), then to the QE Galleon, then to Galleon 5
QE Galleon earns its XP when it can
Units to send to Ulundi
I'm thinking as many Cats as we can grab plus Horatio, our Knight, and as many War Elephants for which we have space remaining
Current plan: I'll go to bed for a couple of hours to await feedback and then I'll wake up to address any comments and play forward a couple of turns. If I haven't posted anything after 3 hours from the timestamp of this message, assume that I slept through my alarm and that the PPP is then open for someone else to grab.
Build queues:
X-ops: Customs House -> Wealth?
Gems: Cat -> Odeon -> Harbour?
Surfin' Turf: Failure Gold -> Theatre? Customs House? Confucian Temple?
City 4: Settler -> Barracks -> Failure Gold
Athens: Wealth, steal a couple of Coast squares until X-ops needs them back
Piscatorium: Failure Gold -> Customs House?
Hippos: The Kremlin
Utrecht: The Taj Mahal -> Odeon -> Hermitage
Sleepy Sheep: Lighthouse -> Forge
New Amsterdam: Whip a Settler
The Hague: Hindu Missionary -> Barracks and Longbowmen/Crossbowmen City Defenders?
Marble: Confucian Missionaries
Bethlehem: Wealth
Hun: Settler... must be ready to whip it soon
Sparta: Wealth
Elizabeth's Cities: Culture then Granaries/Lighthouses/Libraries
Workers
New Amsterdam area: 1S of New Amsterdam Farm, 1SW of New Amsterdam Watermill, P Riv Watermills
Gems area: P Farms
Hippos area: G Workshop
Surfin' Turf area: G Riv Watermill
The Hague area: Road for Military Units, Chop, then Workshops
Utrecht area: Gems Mine, SE + S Watermill
Sparta area: Road and Plantation the next Incense, then Road and Fort the Oil
Hun: Chop into Hun
Marble: Build a couple of Roads (NW and NW + NW of Marble) to speed up the passage of Missionaries, then keep Chopping
Trade:
Mao's 10 GPT <-> Incense
(We will connect a second Incense quite soon)
Trade:
Shaka's 5 GPT <-> Pig
Watch for a Corn Resource to become available for trade to Louis again (easy come, easy go)
Sell techs for bargain-basement prices... we won't be fighting a lot more wars, so we might as well take the AIs' Gold while it's available (not for 20 Gold, but 40 Gold or higher is not that unreasonable)
Hun Settler:
T155 Chop Forest
T156 Whip Hun
T157 Liberate Hun to Mao
Elizabeth War:
T155 or as soon as Elizabeth will talk, perform the Cease Firing, Liberating, and Recapturing of the 4 Cities:
Warwick
Canterbury
Hastings
Nottingham
Keep an eye out for Gold to trade to AIs
Settlers for Mao:
Chain 2 of them and the Hindu Missionary from Galleon 1 to Galleon 2 (well, adding +1 Settler this way to Galleon 2), then to the QE Galleon, then to Galleon 5
QE Galleon earns its XP when it can
Units to send to Ulundi
I'm thinking as many Cats as we can grab plus Horatio, our Knight, and as many War Elephants for which we have space remaining
Hi
I concur that liberating the cities during a cease fire peace does not violate the rule forbidding their gifting during war.
======================================
have you looked at any of the GOTM results? I just looked up GOTM112. Cactus Pete Time Played: 124:01:09
Spoiler :
I concur that liberating the cities during a cease fire peace does not violate the rule forbidding their gifting during war.
Spoiler :
======================================
That's how I feel too.
have you looked at any of the GOTM results? I just looked up GOTM112. Cactus Pete Time Played: 124:01:09
However
Spoiler :
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
If, I, personally, were the one making the rules, we wouldn't even have the concept of an Espionage-assisted Cultural Victory as the approach is currently known.
That point aside, there is a cost associated with what we are doing, including having to take the Diplo hits from the war target's friends (or do what we did and work really hard to first isolate the AI from their friends), experience a loss of Buildings, experience a loss of population, and suffer through repeated losses of Diplo Attitude against the target itself (which the exploit of Liberating Cities while at War gets around). Then there's the loss of using the City over time itself, as it remains in City Revolt for much longer.
I don't think that a limit on the number of turns between war declarations would have in any way affected our strategy and we would have simply decided upon dedicating some boats and Military Units to the task for a longer period of time, or intentionally timing the successive war declarations to co-incide with peaceful times between other wars with other AIs while our troops were once again sailing past.
If, in the future, I wanted to limit the effects of City Liberation, but still allow it to some extent, I would probably, before the game begins, craft a rule to the effect of:
Any City can only be offered once for Liberation credit in the game
Then, throw the rules lawyers at it with the intention that if the City was Liberated to Civ A, it cannot later be Liberated to either Civ A, Civ B, or any other player.
Nothing would stop a City from being gifted multiple times, as there could be strategic uses of doing so, but it couldn't be gifted a second time if one were going to receive Liberation credit after having already received Liberation credit once in that game, from any AI.
Originally, that's how I thought that the game worked (it turns out that I got confused with my team's Culture in a City as a cause for a disappearing Liberation option, as, in this game, our team has proven that the tactic of Liberating the same City more than once is possible), but this perceived restriction actually made City Liberation (appear) tough enough to use effectively that my team decided not to go for an AP Victory and instead fatefully went for Domination in SGOTM 15, creating an infamous Pink Doughnut. So, I believe that such a rule would be sufficiently restrictive, without disallowing creative uses of City Liberation (such as how we are simply planning on peacefully getting Mao up to Friendly status by being really nice to him).
That point aside, there is a cost associated with what we are doing, including having to take the Diplo hits from the war target's friends (or do what we did and work really hard to first isolate the AI from their friends), experience a loss of Buildings, experience a loss of population, and suffer through repeated losses of Diplo Attitude against the target itself (which the exploit of Liberating Cities while at War gets around). Then there's the loss of using the City over time itself, as it remains in City Revolt for much longer.
I don't think that a limit on the number of turns between war declarations would have in any way affected our strategy and we would have simply decided upon dedicating some boats and Military Units to the task for a longer period of time, or intentionally timing the successive war declarations to co-incide with peaceful times between other wars with other AIs while our troops were once again sailing past.
If, in the future, I wanted to limit the effects of City Liberation, but still allow it to some extent, I would probably, before the game begins, craft a rule to the effect of:
Any City can only be offered once for Liberation credit in the game
Then, throw the rules lawyers at it with the intention that if the City was Liberated to Civ A, it cannot later be Liberated to either Civ A, Civ B, or any other player.
Nothing would stop a City from being gifted multiple times, as there could be strategic uses of doing so, but it couldn't be gifted a second time if one were going to receive Liberation credit after having already received Liberation credit once in that game, from any AI.
Originally, that's how I thought that the game worked (it turns out that I got confused with my team's Culture in a City as a cause for a disappearing Liberation option, as, in this game, our team has proven that the tactic of Liberating the same City more than once is possible), but this perceived restriction actually made City Liberation (appear) tough enough to use effectively that my team decided not to go for an AP Victory and instead fatefully went for Domination in SGOTM 15, creating an infamous Pink Doughnut. So, I believe that such a rule would be sufficiently restrictive, without disallowing creative uses of City Liberation (such as how we are simply planning on peacefully getting Mao up to Friendly status by being really nice to him).
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
Turnset Report
T154, 880 AD
Domestic Advisor: Our people are reasonably Happy. We could make do without Incense for a while. Besides, anyone who burns that stuff indoors is inviting the sale ill health effects as are accompanied by breathing second-hand smoke inside
Foreign Advisor: I think that Mao would be more than happy to burn some in his high-ceilinged Cathedrals. At least there, the Buildings are designed to take the smoke away from one's lungs
Domestic Advisor: Also, I hear that bacon is rather unhealthy for our people. Perhaps it would be wise to fatten-up our neighbour before the harvest, so to speak
Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka is more than happy to pig out!
Domestic Advisor: Hippos hires an Engineer Specialist to speed up construction of The Kremlin by a turn
Religious Leader: What about Utrecht? Can we pressure Shaka with some additional Culture?
Domestic Advisor: Two Artists get hired in Utrecht! An additional Forest Chop brings the completion of The Taj Mahal down to 2 turns!
Head of Intelligence: Mansa's Cities with the greatest current production have:
Timbuktu = 224 Hammers
Djenne = 82 Hammers
Gao = 78 Hammers
Domestic Advisor: New Amsterdam sets to work on a Settler for Willem's to-date unused Gems Resource and Marble switches from Wealth back to Confucian-Missionary production. We give back a G For to Hun, as Marble City doesn't currently need it
Military Commander: As our QE Galleon moves to join the Galleon chain, a Trireme gets spotted due to our Visibility Promotion... it is too good to pass up... and we now have our 30-XP boat. Shall we go for broke an try for 50 XP?
X King: Are you out of your mind?
Military Commander: Hey, I like to fight, who can blame me? But, yes, we can keep our QE Galleon out of further fighting, especially since it still has full health
T155, 900 AD
Domestic Advisor: It is time for City 4 to grow once again!
Ambassador Milquetoast: Quickly, while no one treats Shaka as their Worst Enemy, slip him a tech!
X King: I like the way that you think
Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka can now dance to the beat of his own drum! For reference, Mao is too powerful for Shaka to be able to Cease Fire with him, but Shaka would be willing to Cease fire with Louis for the cost of a couple of techs (we'd rather keep them involved in a war, if possible, so that they'll fight on our side)
Domestic Advisor: New Amsterdam Whips a Settler for our Clam + Gems City. We may want to save most additional Whipping for after The Kremlin, but we cannot wait forever to settle our new Cities
Foreign Advisor: Louis throws a bunch of Gold our way for Civil Service, and seeing as how we're about to complete The Taj Mahal, we acquiesce and give it to him. He would also take a Cease fire with Shaka for a low cost. Even Mao would Cease Fire with Shaka for a low cost. Of course, we want them all to stay at war with each other
Head of Intelligence:
Mansa now has 283 Hammers in Timbuktu
Domestic Advisor: Marble City whips yet another Confucian Missionary. We don't care about waiting for The Kremlin here; we just want to aggressively spread our Religion
X King: What of Hun?
Domestic Advisor: We have just finished our Forest Chop for the City. We also work 2 Coast squares instead of 2 Grassland squares, earning additional Commerce, since the extra Food -> Hammers won't help us
Military Commander: While performing our Galleon-chaining from New Amsterdam to Mao, we notice that Mansa is finally exploring Elizabeth's (old) area with a Caravel
X King: How go the war preparations for Shaka?
Military Commander: We begin loading our troops onto boats in preparation for the journey toward Shaka's capital of Ulundi
Domestic Advisor: We complete our Road between Marble City and Mao's Roads, so that we can quickly send Confucian Missionaries to Louis
T155, 900 AD
Foreign Advisor: We give Catherine Theology, upon her Request
Domestic Advisor: We have completed The Taj Mahal!
Science Advisor: With the completion of Physics, we decide to tech Replaceable Parts, which leads to Rifling. We now have a Great Scientist to our name
Foreign Advisor: We notice a Galleon of Louis' that may be headed toward Shaka
Financial Advisor: Hey, how are we at 19 turns of Golden Age? 7 minus 1 plus 12 (counting on fingers and toes)... that's 18! It seems that someone can't perform sums properly
Science Advisor: Bank error in our favour! Collect one free Golden Age turn!
Military Commander: With Airships being unlocked, now might have been a good time to have a Heroic Epic. But, I understand, we want to keep our Science rate up. I shall be patient... but not for long! Hahaha!
Domestic Advisor: With the completion of The Taj Mahal, Utrecht switches some production to growth, completing the Odeon this turn and with the plan to hire 2 more Artists next turn
X King: What of our new Settler?
Domestic Advisor: It can arrive at the William's Gems location and settle within 2 turns. Meanwhile, New Amsterdam can complete its Library with overflow Hammers
X King: And, what about Hun?
Domestic Advisor: We whip our Settler there, then work maximum Commerce squares, starving the City at the same time (poor Mao)
X King: Are we ever going to get a Work Boat or two for Stone City?
Domestic Advisor: At some point we should take a break from spamming Confucian Missionaries out of Marble City and slot in a Work Boat or two, yes. We just haven't found the time to do so, yet
Military Commander: We have decent odds with our War Elephant at Phrygian, and a Crossbowman to defend our wounded War Elephant while it heals after each attack inside of Louis' territory
X King: Any word on the transportation of our Settlers?
Military Commander: One is about to disembark near Mao's area and the other one perhaps two turns from now
Foreign Advisor: We grab Constitution and 650 Gold from Mansa for Physics
X King: What about Communism?
Foreign Advisor: Well, at least Physics unlocks Electricity, which might be good for Mansa to tech if we're going for Rifling
Head of Intelligence: I'm also not very enthusiastic about Mansa having Communism for Intelligence Agencies. If he builds them, we might lose eyes on his Research
Domestic Advisor: You also don't want him to beat us to building The Kremlin, do you?
X King: So, are we going to switch into Representation?
Foreign Advisor: We grab Divine Right in trade from Elizabeth
Domestic Advisor: Yay, one more source of Failure Gold, although we'll probably want to give Divine Right to at least Mansa and possible Louis if we ever want to earn any of said Failure Gold
Military Commander: The QE Galleon heads toward our Great General, who awaits inside of Warwick
Domestic Advisor: Gems can put some Hammers into the Heroic Epic, while we can put Versailles in a City that doesn't make a lot of Hammers for now, such as Athens
X King: What of Culture builds?
Domestic Advisor: We need to be smart about them. When our Cultural Borders are about to expand, we can build them, but we don't need to do so on the first turn out of City Revolt if a City can't reach 10 Culture on the first turn out of City Revolt; we simply wait for a bit and then on a future turn can build Culture then a build item
Foreign Advisor: Louis gives us 9 GPT for our extra Spice Resource!
Domestic Advisor: It would be nice to get some Workers over to Elizabeth's original island
X King: Let's slip into Representation now that we have some Happiness to spare. We're not really looking to get a tech out of either Louis or Catherine, and we can switch back to Hereditary Rule when we're ready to go into Nationalism for Drafting Riflemen
Foreign Advisor: Mao feels that we are becoming too advanced. Hopefully, he'll change his tune once we get him some Cities
T157, 940 AD
Domestic Advisor: Utrecht completes is Odeon and we hire another 2 Artist Specialists. We are on track to get our Great Person in 6 turns' time
Foreign Advisor: Sigh. It seems that the joke is on us. Mao doesn't want Hun for Liberation credit.
X King: Well, we can put him into Confucianism
Foreign Advisor: Well, we did that, and now he won't take any Cities, due to being in Anarchy. So, the City that we settled to Liberate to him... well, he won't take it. What a mess. Let's hope that he'll still take that City next turn
Military Commander: The defences of Ulundi look quite takeable. We should be able to declare war next turn or the turn after that, if we want to, prior to Riflemen becoming available, so as to take Copper off of Shaka's hands and to start building up Mutual Military Struggle points before our potential war allies just give up on the war against Shaka
Foreign Advisor: Meanwhile, in France, Louis has too many Hammers on his hands and appears to have relocated his capital. At least we can gift him a Confucian Missionary inside of his capital
Military Commander: Good news! Our WE 9 at Phrygian won its first battle vs an Archer and is now at 5 / 5 XP, so he can Promote to heal next turn
Ambassador Milquetoast: However, Shaka seems to be leading 2 Barb Galleys directly toward Surfin' Turf's Crab Resource. We'll have to build a Galleon to put a stop to his tricks
Foreign Advisor: We sell Divine Right to Mansa and Education to Isabella for lump sums of Gold
T158, 960 AD
Domestic Advisor: X-ops completes its Customs House. We now see Trade Routes valued at 9, 8, 8, and 7
Foreign Advisor: Mao is being a royal pain in the butt. He won't take the City that we settled last turn but couldn't gift to him due to him being in Anarchy. On the plus side, he did take Hun without Liberation credit, which we've renamed to Deer Hunter, and there's a Barb Swordsman next to the City, which should make for an interesting situation. Perhaps he'll put his Culture in the City and then we can retake the City to Liberate it to him?
Military Commander: Take down the Barb Galley near the City that we wanted to Liberate!
Galleon 5: Yes, sir!
Foreign Advisor: Wow, would you look at that! Mao will now take that City and give us Liberation credit! It was that silly Barb Swordsman who messed up our Liberation of Hun!
Military Commander: Happy to be of service!
Foreign Advisor: Yes, all is not lost! We have two Cities which we can try to settle and Liberate to Mao next turn. Our Horse Archer, who is escorting out Settler, can try to come south and see if he can attack the Barb Swordsman and recapture Deer Hunter... if an option appears to Liberate the City to Mao, we'd do that
Financial Advisor: Well, I'm glad that we sorted out that issue. Let's hope that Mao will soon be Friendly toward us, after all of the hoops that we've having to jump through for him!
Religious Leader: We voted ourselves to become the AP Resident. Let's hope that Mansa votes for us, too
Link to the REAL saved game
T154, 880 AD
Domestic Advisor: Our people are reasonably Happy. We could make do without Incense for a while. Besides, anyone who burns that stuff indoors is inviting the sale ill health effects as are accompanied by breathing second-hand smoke inside
Foreign Advisor: I think that Mao would be more than happy to burn some in his high-ceilinged Cathedrals. At least there, the Buildings are designed to take the smoke away from one's lungs
Domestic Advisor: Also, I hear that bacon is rather unhealthy for our people. Perhaps it would be wise to fatten-up our neighbour before the harvest, so to speak
Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka is more than happy to pig out!
Domestic Advisor: Hippos hires an Engineer Specialist to speed up construction of The Kremlin by a turn
Religious Leader: What about Utrecht? Can we pressure Shaka with some additional Culture?
Domestic Advisor: Two Artists get hired in Utrecht! An additional Forest Chop brings the completion of The Taj Mahal down to 2 turns!
Head of Intelligence: Mansa's Cities with the greatest current production have:
Timbuktu = 224 Hammers
Djenne = 82 Hammers
Gao = 78 Hammers
Domestic Advisor: New Amsterdam sets to work on a Settler for Willem's to-date unused Gems Resource and Marble switches from Wealth back to Confucian-Missionary production. We give back a G For to Hun, as Marble City doesn't currently need it
Military Commander: As our QE Galleon moves to join the Galleon chain, a Trireme gets spotted due to our Visibility Promotion... it is too good to pass up... and we now have our 30-XP boat. Shall we go for broke an try for 50 XP?
X King: Are you out of your mind?
Military Commander: Hey, I like to fight, who can blame me? But, yes, we can keep our QE Galleon out of further fighting, especially since it still has full health
T155, 900 AD
Domestic Advisor: It is time for City 4 to grow once again!
Ambassador Milquetoast: Quickly, while no one treats Shaka as their Worst Enemy, slip him a tech!
X King: I like the way that you think
Spoiler :
Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka can now dance to the beat of his own drum! For reference, Mao is too powerful for Shaka to be able to Cease Fire with him, but Shaka would be willing to Cease fire with Louis for the cost of a couple of techs (we'd rather keep them involved in a war, if possible, so that they'll fight on our side)
Domestic Advisor: New Amsterdam Whips a Settler for our Clam + Gems City. We may want to save most additional Whipping for after The Kremlin, but we cannot wait forever to settle our new Cities
Foreign Advisor: Louis throws a bunch of Gold our way for Civil Service, and seeing as how we're about to complete The Taj Mahal, we acquiesce and give it to him. He would also take a Cease fire with Shaka for a low cost. Even Mao would Cease Fire with Shaka for a low cost. Of course, we want them all to stay at war with each other
Head of Intelligence:
Mansa now has 283 Hammers in Timbuktu
Domestic Advisor: Marble City whips yet another Confucian Missionary. We don't care about waiting for The Kremlin here; we just want to aggressively spread our Religion
X King: What of Hun?
Domestic Advisor: We have just finished our Forest Chop for the City. We also work 2 Coast squares instead of 2 Grassland squares, earning additional Commerce, since the extra Food -> Hammers won't help us
Military Commander: While performing our Galleon-chaining from New Amsterdam to Mao, we notice that Mansa is finally exploring Elizabeth's (old) area with a Caravel
Spoiler :
X King: How go the war preparations for Shaka?
Military Commander: We begin loading our troops onto boats in preparation for the journey toward Shaka's capital of Ulundi
Domestic Advisor: We complete our Road between Marble City and Mao's Roads, so that we can quickly send Confucian Missionaries to Louis
T155, 900 AD
Foreign Advisor: We give Catherine Theology, upon her Request
Domestic Advisor: We have completed The Taj Mahal!
Science Advisor: With the completion of Physics, we decide to tech Replaceable Parts, which leads to Rifling. We now have a Great Scientist to our name
Foreign Advisor: We notice a Galleon of Louis' that may be headed toward Shaka
Spoiler :
Financial Advisor: Hey, how are we at 19 turns of Golden Age? 7 minus 1 plus 12 (counting on fingers and toes)... that's 18! It seems that someone can't perform sums properly
Science Advisor: Bank error in our favour! Collect one free Golden Age turn!
Military Commander: With Airships being unlocked, now might have been a good time to have a Heroic Epic. But, I understand, we want to keep our Science rate up. I shall be patient... but not for long! Hahaha!
Domestic Advisor: With the completion of The Taj Mahal, Utrecht switches some production to growth, completing the Odeon this turn and with the plan to hire 2 more Artists next turn
X King: What of our new Settler?
Domestic Advisor: It can arrive at the William's Gems location and settle within 2 turns. Meanwhile, New Amsterdam can complete its Library with overflow Hammers
X King: And, what about Hun?
Domestic Advisor: We whip our Settler there, then work maximum Commerce squares, starving the City at the same time (poor Mao)
X King: Are we ever going to get a Work Boat or two for Stone City?
Domestic Advisor: At some point we should take a break from spamming Confucian Missionaries out of Marble City and slot in a Work Boat or two, yes. We just haven't found the time to do so, yet
Military Commander: We have decent odds with our War Elephant at Phrygian, and a Crossbowman to defend our wounded War Elephant while it heals after each attack inside of Louis' territory
Spoiler :
X King: Any word on the transportation of our Settlers?
Military Commander: One is about to disembark near Mao's area and the other one perhaps two turns from now
Foreign Advisor: We grab Constitution and 650 Gold from Mansa for Physics
X King: What about Communism?
Foreign Advisor: Well, at least Physics unlocks Electricity, which might be good for Mansa to tech if we're going for Rifling
Head of Intelligence: I'm also not very enthusiastic about Mansa having Communism for Intelligence Agencies. If he builds them, we might lose eyes on his Research
Domestic Advisor: You also don't want him to beat us to building The Kremlin, do you?
X King: So, are we going to switch into Representation?
Foreign Advisor: We grab Divine Right in trade from Elizabeth
Domestic Advisor: Yay, one more source of Failure Gold, although we'll probably want to give Divine Right to at least Mansa and possible Louis if we ever want to earn any of said Failure Gold
Military Commander: The QE Galleon heads toward our Great General, who awaits inside of Warwick
Domestic Advisor: Gems can put some Hammers into the Heroic Epic, while we can put Versailles in a City that doesn't make a lot of Hammers for now, such as Athens
X King: What of Culture builds?
Domestic Advisor: We need to be smart about them. When our Cultural Borders are about to expand, we can build them, but we don't need to do so on the first turn out of City Revolt if a City can't reach 10 Culture on the first turn out of City Revolt; we simply wait for a bit and then on a future turn can build Culture then a build item
Foreign Advisor: Louis gives us 9 GPT for our extra Spice Resource!
Domestic Advisor: It would be nice to get some Workers over to Elizabeth's original island
X King: Let's slip into Representation now that we have some Happiness to spare. We're not really looking to get a tech out of either Louis or Catherine, and we can switch back to Hereditary Rule when we're ready to go into Nationalism for Drafting Riflemen
Foreign Advisor: Mao feels that we are becoming too advanced. Hopefully, he'll change his tune once we get him some Cities
T157, 940 AD
Domestic Advisor: Utrecht completes is Odeon and we hire another 2 Artist Specialists. We are on track to get our Great Person in 6 turns' time
Foreign Advisor: Sigh. It seems that the joke is on us. Mao doesn't want Hun for Liberation credit.
X King: Well, we can put him into Confucianism
Foreign Advisor: Well, we did that, and now he won't take any Cities, due to being in Anarchy. So, the City that we settled to Liberate to him... well, he won't take it. What a mess. Let's hope that he'll still take that City next turn
Military Commander: The defences of Ulundi look quite takeable. We should be able to declare war next turn or the turn after that, if we want to, prior to Riflemen becoming available, so as to take Copper off of Shaka's hands and to start building up Mutual Military Struggle points before our potential war allies just give up on the war against Shaka
Spoiler :
Foreign Advisor: Meanwhile, in France, Louis has too many Hammers on his hands and appears to have relocated his capital. At least we can gift him a Confucian Missionary inside of his capital
Spoiler :
Military Commander: Good news! Our WE 9 at Phrygian won its first battle vs an Archer and is now at 5 / 5 XP, so he can Promote to heal next turn
Ambassador Milquetoast: However, Shaka seems to be leading 2 Barb Galleys directly toward Surfin' Turf's Crab Resource. We'll have to build a Galleon to put a stop to his tricks
Foreign Advisor: We sell Divine Right to Mansa and Education to Isabella for lump sums of Gold
T158, 960 AD
Domestic Advisor: X-ops completes its Customs House. We now see Trade Routes valued at 9, 8, 8, and 7
Foreign Advisor: Mao is being a royal pain in the butt. He won't take the City that we settled last turn but couldn't gift to him due to him being in Anarchy. On the plus side, he did take Hun without Liberation credit, which we've renamed to Deer Hunter, and there's a Barb Swordsman next to the City, which should make for an interesting situation. Perhaps he'll put his Culture in the City and then we can retake the City to Liberate it to him?
Military Commander: Take down the Barb Galley near the City that we wanted to Liberate!
Galleon 5: Yes, sir!
Foreign Advisor: Wow, would you look at that! Mao will now take that City and give us Liberation credit! It was that silly Barb Swordsman who messed up our Liberation of Hun!
Military Commander: Happy to be of service!
Foreign Advisor: Yes, all is not lost! We have two Cities which we can try to settle and Liberate to Mao next turn. Our Horse Archer, who is escorting out Settler, can try to come south and see if he can attack the Barb Swordsman and recapture Deer Hunter... if an option appears to Liberate the City to Mao, we'd do that
Spoiler :
Financial Advisor: Well, I'm glad that we sorted out that issue. Let's hope that Mao will soon be Friendly toward us, after all of the hoops that we've having to jump through for him!
Religious Leader: We voted ourselves to become the AP Resident. Let's hope that Mansa votes for us, too
Link to the REAL saved game
Good Luck Dhoom. 
We are exploiting the fact that liberating cities can give you immense positive relations. This has been well known and has always existed. The rule was made to prevent liberations during war using the F1 screen. Using that screen you can liberate a city over and over the same turn, so if you have 50 units you can build +75 relations in a single turn.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
I'm assuming that we want to rid ourselves of the Elizabeth quest, rather than trying to keep her boat around forever. Sure, it's a speedy boat, but we don't want to mess up the quest, so we should feel happy with planning on giving Elizabeth her boat as soon as possible, right?
Agree. Let's check it off the list.
Then can we sink it.
Then can we sink it.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
Are you kidding? We don't need yet ANOTHER war with Elizabeth just to kill off a boat. She can keep her boat, which she can use to help fend off any would-be conquesting AIs.
We don't need yet ANOTHER war with Elizabeth just to kill off a boat. She can keep her boat, which she can use to help fend off any would-be conquesting AIs.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
Okay, with Mao not being willing to take Hun as a Liberation gift, I feel like crying. However, all is not lost.
He went to Pleased toward us this turn for Open Borders or Shared Resources. We just switched him from hating us for him being in Christianity to him liking us for being in Confucianism.
So, he's already reasonably happy toward us and +4 from City Liberations might just be enough to get him to Friendly status, and a shared war with Shaka should definitely do the trick.
He went to Pleased toward us this turn for Open Borders or Shared Resources. We just switched him from hating us for him being in Christianity to him liking us for being in Confucianism.
So, he's already reasonably happy toward us and +4 from City Liberations might just be enough to get him to Friendly status, and a shared war with Shaka should definitely do the trick.
Are you kidding?
We've got that poor woman so confused with our giving and taking, you have to know that when we give her that ship, she is going to hide under her bed until we've gone away. She cannot think us giving her anything is a good thing...
Nice progress, Dhoom.
By all means, give E her super boat.
Your reports are great reading, but please don't feel compelled to keep them up at the present level as time gets short.
I'm happy for you to continue as long as you wish, and that's certainly the most efficient way to proceed, but I will try to be available to step in any time within the next 40 hours (have to be away for a day after that). If I am needed, it would certainly be helpful to have a listing of city sites to be settled and missionaries to be built and where they need to go to convert the heathens.
Deckhand is right, though. I'm a slow player.
By all means, give E her super boat.
Your reports are great reading, but please don't feel compelled to keep them up at the present level as time gets short.
I'm happy for you to continue as long as you wish, and that's certainly the most efficient way to proceed, but I will try to be available to step in any time within the next 40 hours (have to be away for a day after that). If I am needed, it would certainly be helpful to have a listing of city sites to be settled and missionaries to be built and where they need to go to convert the heathens.
Deckhand is right, though. I'm a slow player.
Similar threads
