CPGood luck!
SGOTM 21 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
CPGood luck!
Dhoomstriker
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Remember that we want Mansa to have Electricity, to give him the chance to pick Radio.
Whatever I uploaded was the latest saved game.
Whatever I uploaded was the latest saved game.
Dhoomstriker
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However, we do NOT want to take Corporate in trade from Mansa. Just sell him Electricity for whatever Gold he will give to us.
Yes, CP was still playing -- through beginning of T169 (save below).
T167:
Draft rifle in Gems
Change to Bur, Rep, and Caste
IBT:
Chose Stop War with Shaka resolution and vote NO
Louis completes Versailles and begins a GAge
T168:
Capture Nogama, losing a treb
Gift Electricity Mansa
Conduct war
IBT:
Louis asks us to cancel deals with Mansa -- refuse
Louis has 180g to trade
149 (out of the 151 needed) are voted to stop war with Shaka (close!), with Mansa voting to stop
Mansa gets a GA, Shaka a GP
We get failed Vers gold
T169:
Eliminate all but one unit in Nobamba (and can take it this turn, but next turn could probably capture a couple of Shaka workers)
Use airships on Bulawayo and can probably take it this turn with considerable losses, especially if we go out of our way to protect rifles (not sure how much of a concern this is, as we have HE in S&T, so could build others if needed, plus think we have two extra; also, by waiting, we can either unload rifle and treb near Bula next turn or use them to take Shaka workers)
Stopped playing and paused game to get feedback on the above. Also, not clear why Dhoom wants us to leave Shaka with three cities (understand leaving him with one Hindu city), when we can take his non-hill cities quickly now with few losses. So, need feedback on which cities to capture and which to leave.
Can't play any more for about 7 hours, and then that would be my last session. Happy for someone to step in for those 7 hours and ongoing if desired.
At some point we will be wise to have Dhoom just take over completely and bring this home, if we're going to meet the deadline.
Save (from Central): http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG021_AD1090_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
T167:
Draft rifle in Gems
Change to Bur, Rep, and Caste
IBT:
Chose Stop War with Shaka resolution and vote NO
Louis completes Versailles and begins a GAge
T168:
Capture Nogama, losing a treb
Gift Electricity Mansa
Conduct war
IBT:
Louis asks us to cancel deals with Mansa -- refuse
Louis has 180g to trade
149 (out of the 151 needed) are voted to stop war with Shaka (close!), with Mansa voting to stop
Mansa gets a GA, Shaka a GP
We get failed Vers gold
T169:
Eliminate all but one unit in Nobamba (and can take it this turn, but next turn could probably capture a couple of Shaka workers)
Use airships on Bulawayo and can probably take it this turn with considerable losses, especially if we go out of our way to protect rifles (not sure how much of a concern this is, as we have HE in S&T, so could build others if needed, plus think we have two extra; also, by waiting, we can either unload rifle and treb near Bula next turn or use them to take Shaka workers)
Stopped playing and paused game to get feedback on the above. Also, not clear why Dhoom wants us to leave Shaka with three cities (understand leaving him with one Hindu city), when we can take his non-hill cities quickly now with few losses. So, need feedback on which cities to capture and which to leave.
Can't play any more for about 7 hours, and then that would be my last session. Happy for someone to step in for those 7 hours and ongoing if desired.
At some point we will be wise to have Dhoom just take over completely and bring this home, if we're going to meet the deadline.
Save (from Central): http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG021_AD1090_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
Our economy looks strong but you seem to have missed to starve a GM somewhere. With a great Engineer we might want 2 GMs. one for a golden age and one for a trade mission.
At what time does the game end? Do we only have tomorrow or can we also play on the 8th? I could play on the 8th if needed.
At what time does the game end? Do we only have tomorrow or can we also play on the 8th? I could play on the 8th if needed.
Dhoomstriker
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If we are going to build any more Military Units prior to Tanks, they should probably only be built out of Surfin' Turf. For now, we could just start spamming Galleons out of Surfin' Turf.
It's unfortunate to see Mansa going for Democracy. I don't think that we will want to take that tech from him, since there's no real reason to build The Statue of Liberty and we don't want to encourage more AIs to go for Democracy.
Of course we'd love it if Mansa learned Radio for us. If he started to tech it, we'd be able to save up enough techs to trade it from him.
If he started building the Wonder right away, we could instead try bribing him into a war against Shaka, to see if we could get him to stop building all Radio Wonders.
X-ops should build Wealth and somewhere else should build the Hermitage
We seem to have balanced our budget quite well with Wealth builds, so feel free to sneak in Libraries and Universities as build items, especially if we have Forest Chops going into them.
When a City, such as City 4, is pretty much stagnant due to not wanting to grow into Unhappiness, it's a great spot to build a Settler. We were building one there earlier and we'll need one for Toku and one for Catherine. If we can get those Settlers and their corresponding Hindu Missionaries sent out, we'll be checking off one more task off of our list of things to do.
Athens can whip the Theatre that we started there.
Marble can probably work a Coast instead of a Grassland square, at least until we've got another Grassland Workshop there
Utrecht should be hiring max Merchants. I'm not sure what other City would work.
I have run out of time.
It's unfortunate to see Mansa going for Democracy. I don't think that we will want to take that tech from him, since there's no real reason to build The Statue of Liberty and we don't want to encourage more AIs to go for Democracy.
Of course we'd love it if Mansa learned Radio for us. If he started to tech it, we'd be able to save up enough techs to trade it from him.
If he started building the Wonder right away, we could instead try bribing him into a war against Shaka, to see if we could get him to stop building all Radio Wonders.
X-ops should build Wealth and somewhere else should build the Hermitage
We seem to have balanced our budget quite well with Wealth builds, so feel free to sneak in Libraries and Universities as build items, especially if we have Forest Chops going into them.
When a City, such as City 4, is pretty much stagnant due to not wanting to grow into Unhappiness, it's a great spot to build a Settler. We were building one there earlier and we'll need one for Toku and one for Catherine. If we can get those Settlers and their corresponding Hindu Missionaries sent out, we'll be checking off one more task off of our list of things to do.
Athens can whip the Theatre that we started there.
Marble can probably work a Coast instead of a Grassland square, at least until we've got another Grassland Workshop there
Utrecht should be hiring max Merchants. I'm not sure what other City would work.
I have run out of time.
Sure would like to have my questions regarding taking Shaka's cities answered.
I can play in about 3.5 hours if no one else is going to.
I can play in about 3.5 hours if no one else is going to.
Went back through the thread and found this:
Don't know if it helps, but the reason is to reset the AP Vote cycle.
No mention of which cities to let him keep. Hope this helps.
Does help, leif. The 3 "or less'" I'd missed. Thanks.
Will play some more shortly.
Will play some more shortly.
Dhoomstriker
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The idea would be that we would immediately redeclare war on Shaka after letting him have York, but the only way that Shaka will take York is if he has 3 or less Cities, since an AI will generally take any City on the map when it only has 3 or less Cities.
So, first Shaka has to have only 3 Cities or less, then we Cease Fire, we gift York to Shaka, then we redeclare war on Shaka. Since the last that I checked, no AIs like Shaka, it should be a simple process, but if an AI is Pleased toward Shaka, it might be nice to bribe that AI to attack Shaka BEFORE we take the Cease Fire with Shaka, when it will be the cheapest time to bribe another AI to attack Shaka.
If we have no choice but to upset an AI, then we'll just have to upset that AI by declaring war on Shaka, as I'm pretty sure that we'll need to reset the AP cycle unless we pull magic fairies out of our butts that increase our Science rate significantly. And, even if we did, it might still be good to reset the AP Voting Cycle so that we have a backup option of 10 turns for the next vote, instead of 20 turns for the next vote.
We'd recapture York once the voting cycle has been reset on the F8 MEMBERS screen, so, prior to that time, we could definitely have Riflemen in place close to York.
On the last turn of our Golden Age, it may be the last time that we can switch Civics. If our Happiness levels are poor, we may need to go back into Hereditary Rule. We will definitely want to go back into Slavery.
I'd rather delay the capturing of Shaka's Cities instead of sacrificing too many units to take his Cities, since we don't want too much war weariness from dead units.
So, first Shaka has to have only 3 Cities or less, then we Cease Fire, we gift York to Shaka, then we redeclare war on Shaka. Since the last that I checked, no AIs like Shaka, it should be a simple process, but if an AI is Pleased toward Shaka, it might be nice to bribe that AI to attack Shaka BEFORE we take the Cease Fire with Shaka, when it will be the cheapest time to bribe another AI to attack Shaka.
If we have no choice but to upset an AI, then we'll just have to upset that AI by declaring war on Shaka, as I'm pretty sure that we'll need to reset the AP cycle unless we pull magic fairies out of our butts that increase our Science rate significantly. And, even if we did, it might still be good to reset the AP Voting Cycle so that we have a backup option of 10 turns for the next vote, instead of 20 turns for the next vote.
We'd recapture York once the voting cycle has been reset on the F8 MEMBERS screen, so, prior to that time, we could definitely have Riflemen in place close to York.
On the last turn of our Golden Age, it may be the last time that we can switch Civics. If our Happiness levels are poor, we may need to go back into Hereditary Rule. We will definitely want to go back into Slavery.
I'd rather delay the capturing of Shaka's Cities instead of sacrificing too many units to take his Cities, since we don't want too much war weariness from dead units.
Dhoomstriker
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Obviously, my earlier suggestion of whipping a Theatre won't work now that we're in Caste System.
We have until 11:59 pm in the very last timezone on the planet in terms of May 8.
The regular XOTM submission page lists that submission time, although the dates will be wrong. As of the timestamp of this message, we have about 5 extra hours until it will be the end of May 6, so we have 48 hours + 5 hours, although it would be nice not to cut the game that close to the deadline.
We have until 11:59 pm in the very last timezone on the planet in terms of May 8.
The regular XOTM submission page lists that submission time, although the dates will be wrong. As of the timestamp of this message, we have about 5 extra hours until it will be the end of May 6, so we have 48 hours + 5 hours, although it would be nice not to cut the game that close to the deadline.
Dhoomstriker
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In terms of Shaka's Cities, we should plan to let him keep uMgundgundlovu, but prevent him from Chopping any of the Forests to the south-east of that City. We should eventually plan to capture all of his other Cities.
We can probably raze that City of his at some point; I just fear that if we do so too soon, another AI may send a Settler Party and steal some of our Forest Chops Nongoma, which we may want to use on Rock N Roll.
We can probably raze that City of his at some point; I just fear that if we do so too soon, another AI may send a Settler Party and steal some of our Forest Chops Nongoma, which we may want to use on Rock N Roll.
War weariness will be a problem next turn, but next turn we will have Shaka down to one city and can get a cease fire after capturing his last worker SSW of Ondini.
Played until the end of T171 -- Report:
T169:
Made moves suggested in the thread and finished turn
Noted that Louis is Worst Enemy of E, so did not trade for his gold (or his silk next turn)
IBT:
Louis makes peace with Shaka (and will trade silk)
Toku gets a GS, as does Cathy
Steam Power>Radio
Mansa founds a city
T170:
Capture Bula, but lose Horatio (at 97.7%)
Capture Nobamba, loosing a mace
Capture three workers
IBT:
Now Louis won't trade us silk
T171:
Sail settler with a Hindu missionary north in galleon 5 (another settler and Hindu missionary will be produced next turn)
Prepare the taking of two of Shaka's last three cities next turn
Get a GG
Hope the team can finish this, but I'm away tomorrow and can't help at all.
Save from Central: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG021_AD1110_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
Played until the end of T171 -- Report:
T169:
Made moves suggested in the thread and finished turn
Noted that Louis is Worst Enemy of E, so did not trade for his gold (or his silk next turn)
IBT:
Louis makes peace with Shaka (and will trade silk)
Toku gets a GS, as does Cathy
Steam Power>Radio
Mansa founds a city
T170:
Capture Bula, but lose Horatio (at 97.7%)
Capture Nobamba, loosing a mace
Capture three workers
IBT:
Now Louis won't trade us silk
T171:
Sail settler with a Hindu missionary north in galleon 5 (another settler and Hindu missionary will be produced next turn)
Prepare the taking of two of Shaka's last three cities next turn
Get a GG
Hope the team can finish this, but I'm away tomorrow and can't help at all.
Save from Central: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG021_AD1110_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
Dhoomstriker
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Don't worry about worst enemy trading. Do the trading anyway. We're at -4 Traded with our Worst Enemy for pretty much everyone anyway. Get their Gold when you can.
The only thing to worry about is declaring war on an AI that other AIs are Pleased toward.
Ouch on not getting the Silk Resource. That was one of the items on our "to do list" of things to get. As you say, hopefully we won't need to suffer through Shaka's War Weariness for too long, so hopefully, missing out on a Happiness Resource won't matter. But, I think that Louis only had 2 of them.
The only thing to worry about is declaring war on an AI that other AIs are Pleased toward.
Ouch on not getting the Silk Resource. That was one of the items on our "to do list" of things to get. As you say, hopefully we won't need to suffer through Shaka's War Weariness for too long, so hopefully, missing out on a Happiness Resource won't matter. But, I think that Louis only had 2 of them.
Dhoomstriker
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After quickly glancing at the game:
1 turn until we can switch our Civics
Athens has some Unhappiness, but it's mostly due to a tiny bit of extra War Weariness on top of our Drafting anger. Athens is a marginal City, so this fact hardly matters.
The Hague seems to be the only other City with Unhappiness, also partially due to Drafting, which will wear off. We could work non-Food squares (Deer -> Workshop) until we've gone Hindu Missionary (almost complete) -> Theatre
X-ops is almost Unhappy, so we probably want to build a Theatre there.
We've unlocked Levees, so Cities which can build Levees should build them:
X-ops (after a Theatre), Hippos, Utrecht, New Amsterdam (after the Settler), and that might be all
Going for Radio earlier on is actually a pretty good idea, so that we can get to work on Chopping that Wonder in Nongoma, presumably without the help of Organized Religion. We're going to have to wait for a while to get Steel from Mao, so that means that after Radio, we either stop waiting or else we sabotate our economy by taking Corporation in trade and head to Industrialism so that we can later get Steel for free in trade.
It may depend upon what Mansa does... if Mansa goes for Radio, we might abandon research on Radio. If Mansa goes for Assembly Line, we can just duplicate Mao's research on Steel and learn Steel ourselves.
We will know in 2 turns what Mansa will pick for his next tech.
Excellent work on the warring... 13 Rifles still alive
It's possible that we might not need to reset the voting cycle, but I think that we should plan to do so, just to have a safer end game.
It's nice that Nongoma has a Granary and a Lighthouse, but we'll want to build a Forge there prior to Chopping
Pre-Chopping there is a good idea
It looks like we're going to lose a Forest to Shaka's Worker, but that Forest would have gone to the City of Ondini anyway, so I'm not too concerned about it
Great job with continuing to build Libraries and Universities.
We should probably gift Economics to Elizabeth, to keep her out of Mercantilism. While it probably won't make a difference for us, when one AI goes into Mercantilism, more tend to follow, so keeping all AIs out of Mercantilism is a good thing.
We should also sell Economics to Catherine and Isabella for a similar reason--allowing them to pick Free Market instead of Mercantilism.
The map seems to lack Coal. I would suggest that we settle our Toku gift City as our next City, and settle it NW + N + N of Kyoto, directly on top of the Coal. That way, we can use Coal to build Railroads and then give the Resource away later.
Mansa has a Galleon near Athens, probably with a Settler Party aboard. I don't see space at Shaka, but maybe he's going to compete for Nongoma's Whales by settling on the island to the south of there?
We might as well capture all but 1 of Shaka's Cities before performing the York gift. If we think that we can win before the last AP vote, it's possible that we won't need to reset the AP voting cycle, but considering that our Harbours and Customs Houses will go down in value once we learn Corporation, I'm expecting that the hit to our economy will require us to reset the AP voting cycle.
Folket, do you plan to put in some turns?
I can probably put in some turns sometime on the 7th.
1 turn until we can switch our Civics
Athens has some Unhappiness, but it's mostly due to a tiny bit of extra War Weariness on top of our Drafting anger. Athens is a marginal City, so this fact hardly matters.
The Hague seems to be the only other City with Unhappiness, also partially due to Drafting, which will wear off. We could work non-Food squares (Deer -> Workshop) until we've gone Hindu Missionary (almost complete) -> Theatre
X-ops is almost Unhappy, so we probably want to build a Theatre there.
We've unlocked Levees, so Cities which can build Levees should build them:
X-ops (after a Theatre), Hippos, Utrecht, New Amsterdam (after the Settler), and that might be all
Going for Radio earlier on is actually a pretty good idea, so that we can get to work on Chopping that Wonder in Nongoma, presumably without the help of Organized Religion. We're going to have to wait for a while to get Steel from Mao, so that means that after Radio, we either stop waiting or else we sabotate our economy by taking Corporation in trade and head to Industrialism so that we can later get Steel for free in trade.
It may depend upon what Mansa does... if Mansa goes for Radio, we might abandon research on Radio. If Mansa goes for Assembly Line, we can just duplicate Mao's research on Steel and learn Steel ourselves.
We will know in 2 turns what Mansa will pick for his next tech.
Excellent work on the warring... 13 Rifles still alive
It's possible that we might not need to reset the voting cycle, but I think that we should plan to do so, just to have a safer end game.
It's nice that Nongoma has a Granary and a Lighthouse, but we'll want to build a Forge there prior to Chopping
Pre-Chopping there is a good idea
It looks like we're going to lose a Forest to Shaka's Worker, but that Forest would have gone to the City of Ondini anyway, so I'm not too concerned about it
Great job with continuing to build Libraries and Universities.
We should probably gift Economics to Elizabeth, to keep her out of Mercantilism. While it probably won't make a difference for us, when one AI goes into Mercantilism, more tend to follow, so keeping all AIs out of Mercantilism is a good thing.
We should also sell Economics to Catherine and Isabella for a similar reason--allowing them to pick Free Market instead of Mercantilism.
The map seems to lack Coal. I would suggest that we settle our Toku gift City as our next City, and settle it NW + N + N of Kyoto, directly on top of the Coal. That way, we can use Coal to build Railroads and then give the Resource away later.
Mansa has a Galleon near Athens, probably with a Settler Party aboard. I don't see space at Shaka, but maybe he's going to compete for Nongoma's Whales by settling on the island to the south of there?
We might as well capture all but 1 of Shaka's Cities before performing the York gift. If we think that we can win before the last AP vote, it's possible that we won't need to reset the AP voting cycle, but considering that our Harbours and Customs Houses will go down in value once we learn Corporation, I'm expecting that the hit to our economy will require us to reset the AP voting cycle.
Folket, do you plan to put in some turns?
I can probably put in some turns sometime on the 7th.
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