SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants
- Thread starter AlanH
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LowtherCastle
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Incidentally, Mitchum, pls OB with everyone before making any trades.
Mitchum
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If we know who our long-term trading partners will be, can't we ignore some WE situations? For example, Mao is a terrible long-term partner (hits WFYABTA after 7 techs). Plus, we'll likely mow through him on our way to the Orient plus he'll be one of the last AIs that we hit. So shouldn't we just keep him as backwards as possible?
Same thing with Darius. If we take the southern route to the Orient, we'll have to take him out too.
In other words, I'd like to pick our long-term partners now and then stick with them as much as possible. Everyone else should stay backwards for all I care.
Edit: xpost
Mitchum
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LowtherCastle
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I'm fine with your choices too. I like Writing to Darius simply because with a fishing boat, he'll be able to work 2 silver mines and maybe tech something useful for us soon. He's financial. We have a lot of options just with Darius, Joao, and Sal.
I'm more focused on being able to trade for short- to mid-term techs right now. Who can help us with IW, Math, Calendar, Monarchy, MC, or whatever? Long-term, I'm not sure anyone will be able to help us, but this way we're leaving our options open for a while, since we don't know who will tech what next.
LowtherCastle
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After Masonry, we might want to beeline Currency so we can trade all these cheap techs for a few coins. Every dime counts.
LowtherCastle
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Okay, Mitchum, I get what you're saying. You want to try to Stone-Age Darius and other future victims tech-wise. Hm. I don't know. Mao, Gandhi, and Darius all near the top of the power rankings. They're most liekly to help us teching. By the time we get to them, I think our war machine will plow through them no matter what.
Anyway, these AIs are all teching so slowly it doesn't matter how you do it (with Darius, Joao, and Sal) as long as we get all three techs. Then we can decide who to gift Writing to, if others agree. I'm not against.
Anyway, these AIs are all teching so slowly it doesn't matter how you do it (with Darius, Joao, and Sal) as long as we get all three techs. Then we can decide who to gift Writing to, if others agree. I'm not against.
I'd be up for embargoing our immediate targets (Alex, Fred), or even "encouraging" them to build the great wall instead of units, but beyond that I don't see the point. These AIs aren't exactly going to out-tech us.
Mitchum
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Mao will never be a good trading partner for techs unless we think we can get him to Friendly, right? We're almost at his WFYABTA limit of 7 already... I'd rather just leave him behind, at least for now.
Darius only has 1 city so I'm not sure how much help he'll be but it's hard to say.
I'll make the trades with just Sal and Joao for now since both are clearly not on our path to the Orient. That will give us time to debate how to handle the AIs short, mid and long-term while also exposing copper.
Darius only has 1 city so I'm not sure how much help he'll be but it's hard to say.
I'll make the trades with just Sal and Joao for now since both are clearly not on our path to the Orient. That will give us time to debate how to handle the AIs short, mid and long-term while also exposing copper.
Mitchum
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T48 Tech trades
OB with Hatty and Sal.
Agriculture, Writing and AH to Sal for Mysticism and BW. +4 Fair Trade with Sal now.
Masonry goes from 4 turns to 3 turns at 100% slider.
We have copper in our BFC at Paris-1W (right where our worker is standing)!!
No copper near Fredburg.
Fred has copper at Berlin-S. It has a mine on it but he doesn't know BW yet.
CF with Fred (Pollina was right, as usual
).
AH and Agriculture to Joao for Sailing.
Research goes from +26 to +29 thanks to foreign TRs (+3 in Paris and +2 in FurCity).
Stopping to re-work micro with the discovery of Copper and to decide which AIs to enable and which to Stone Age.
OB with Hatty and Sal.
Agriculture, Writing and AH to Sal for Mysticism and BW. +4 Fair Trade with Sal now.
Masonry goes from 4 turns to 3 turns at 100% slider.
We have copper in our BFC at Paris-1W (right where our worker is standing)!!
No copper near Fredburg.
Fred has copper at Berlin-S. It has a mine on it but he doesn't know BW yet.
CF with Fred (Pollina was right, as usual
).AH and Agriculture to Joao for Sailing.
Research goes from +26 to +29 thanks to foreign TRs (+3 in Paris and +2 in FurCity).
Stopping to re-work micro with the discovery of Copper and to decide which AIs to enable and which to Stone Age.
LowtherCastle
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A big advantage for teams that settled Stone City long ago is that it's already mature. We need to get it up to speed asap.
Mitchum
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True, but no one will likely have BW as early as we have it unless they skipped Writing and Alphabet and instead self-teched AH, Mining and BW in some order. Plus, who would have settled Stone as city #2 or #3 prior to knowing where the copper is? Most teams most likely settled toward the AI, not away from them... I think we're in fine position relative to other teams.
Mitchum
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I think we stick with the same worker micro for the next several turns, right? We're using the cow to quickly grow and to fill the granary which can't be done if we mine the copper.
It's possible that we'll mine the copper or pasture the horses before quarrying the stone but that depends on whether we want to prioritize mobilizing our army or fail gold. If we prioritize warring (my vote), then maybe we can skip Masonry and hope to get it in trade by the time we need it...
It's possible that we'll mine the copper or pasture the horses before quarrying the stone but that depends on whether we want to prioritize mobilizing our army or fail gold. If we prioritize warring (my vote), then maybe we can skip Masonry and hope to get it in trade by the time we need it...
Mitchum
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Oh crap!! I just noticed that the save I did the tech trades with was different than the one that I had opened borders with Hatty and Sal. So, I was not playing with the latest save. Opening borders was the only move I had made. PM the admins?
BTW, Currency is about a 19-turn tech at the moment, prior to founding more than our current 2 cities. We can get a lot more gold from selling small techs than we can from fail gold on the GW... Plus, we can use our OF hammers to build an army instead of gold.
BTW, Currency is about a 19-turn tech at the moment, prior to founding more than our current 2 cities. We can get a lot more gold from selling small techs than we can from fail gold on the GW... Plus, we can use our OF hammers to build an army instead of gold.
LowtherCastle
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Definitely pm AlanH. Re-do the tech trades on your original latest save, I would think. It's not like you made a move that gives us some info.
LowtherCastle
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Seems like we should think a bit about this turn of events, getting copper and horses so close. Makes whipping less attractive before we grow Paris. Complicated MM optimization.
It's ok Mitchum, don't worry about it.
Yes, PM the admins to let them know.
It doesn't make any difference to our trade routes because they'll be updated once we settle FredBurg anyway.
Re: Hammers into GW failgold or army? My vote is army too. But I still want Masonry for GLH (in City 5) before we're really ready to go on the march. Jesus needs to peek into Athens now.
Yes, PM the admins to let them know.
It doesn't make any difference to our trade routes because they'll be updated once we settle FredBurg anyway.
Re: Hammers into GW failgold or army? My vote is army too. But I still want Masonry for GLH (in City 5) before we're really ready to go on the march. Jesus needs to peek into Athens now.
Mitchum
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I just sent a PM to both Alan and BSP. I asked if I should use the intended save (i.e. the one whee we opened borders first) or the latest save (i.e. the one where I made the tech trades without OBs with Sal and Hatty). I won't proceed until I hear from them.
We have enough to discuss now anyway so we have some time.
We have enough to discuss now anyway so we have some time.
LowtherCastle
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Copper on that road also means no warriors without giving away the copper.
Mitchum
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That may be a reason to pick up Archery now while we have cheap techs to trade for it. It will allow us to build archers instead of axes once we've hooked up CU.
Are there any techs we need to avoid to keep certain bulb opportunities available?
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