Ronald
Emperor
klarius said:
I calculated wrongly 4 turns for medicine. It's 2 turns or less (depending how many more specialists we can use at that time).
SGOTM8 - klarius
- Thread starter AlanH
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I calculated wrongly 4 turns for medicine. It's 2 turns or less (depending how many more specialists we can use at that time).
Northern Pike
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I'm aware that we need more of everything yesterday 
, but even so I'll point out that coal plants should figure in our thinking, since we'll be waiting an abnormally long time for Electronics/Hoover. Forty spt and fifty spt are going to be the crucial thresholds, and towns which complete factories soon and don't reach either of those levels should probably move on to coal plants.
We've got three towns trying to build cav units without factories. I know we need the cav, and that's not a criticism. But it's too much a short-term strategy for my taste, and I'd change Chicago at least to a factory build.
Ronald, were AI units on our wool hill near Albuquerque until recently? I'm puzzled as to why we traded for Rome's wool rather than hooking up our own.
New York is stuck at size twelve with a useless food surplus, so we can mine the one irrigated plains tile it's working.
I like Klarius's idea of driving right for ToE if fortune favours us and the Greeks draw Medicine as their free tech after gifting.
To complete Megalou's admirably thorough census of our Chinese citizens, I'll point out that we also have a Chinese immigrant in Miami.
, but even so I'll point out that coal plants should figure in our thinking, since we'll be waiting an abnormally long time for Electronics/Hoover. Forty spt and fifty spt are going to be the crucial thresholds, and towns which complete factories soon and don't reach either of those levels should probably move on to coal plants.We've got three towns trying to build cav units without factories. I know we need the cav, and that's not a criticism. But it's too much a short-term strategy for my taste, and I'd change Chicago at least to a factory build.
Ronald, were AI units on our wool hill near Albuquerque until recently? I'm puzzled as to why we traded for Rome's wool rather than hooking up our own.
New York is stuck at size twelve with a useless food surplus, so we can mine the one irrigated plains tile it's working.
I like Klarius's idea of driving right for ToE if fortune favours us and the Greeks draw Medicine as their free tech after gifting.
To complete Megalou's admirably thorough census of our Chinese citizens, I'll point out that we also have a Chinese immigrant in Miami.
Yes, though I'm not sure when we would apply it.Megalou said:
But also a few rifles aren't bad to soak up attacks of outdated units.
Police officers also get some more MM options.
So it's not crucial to get it, but if we get the chance to buy it cheap (not at monopoly price), we should take it.
We haven't discussed this and we may take it for granted but anyway: No war on the English continent before flight. We need an airport on that continent. Once we have flight, it will be much cheaper to send cavalries there from the core than it would be to hurry cavalries.
I have nothing against a war in Japan, although that is also expensive, but both would drain our economy. If the war in Japan stalls, we can still do some leader fishing for valuable armies.
Are we agreed on:
Giving Metallurgy to Japan asap?
Giving a few corrupt towns to Japan and retake them so that the odds for good towns in a peace treaty increases?
Giving a virtual kick in the behind to Megalou for blowing the Viking enterprise? (Yes, still annoyed and should've followed Ronald's advice)
Good luck, Ciceronian!
I have nothing against a war in Japan, although that is also expensive, but both would drain our economy. If the war in Japan stalls, we can still do some leader fishing for valuable armies.
Are we agreed on:
Giving Metallurgy to Japan asap?
Giving a few corrupt towns to Japan and retake them so that the odds for good towns in a peace treaty increases?
Giving a virtual kick in the behind to Megalou for blowing the Viking enterprise? (Yes, still annoyed and should've followed Ronald's advice)
Good luck, Ciceronian!
Ciceronian
Latin Scholar
I'm up and ready to play (by tomorrow probably). I may fall a little short of the 10 turns again because of various reallife hassle.
I am agreed on gifting the Japanese Metallurgy to render their SoZ obsolete. The phony war against Japan also sounds OK, I will try to undertake that then.
I'm not so sure where exactly we stand in research. We have Steam Power and Nationalism so far? We should go straight for ToE then first? And gift Greece into the IA and try and get their free tech if it is Medicine?
I am agreed on gifting the Japanese Metallurgy to render their SoZ obsolete. The phony war against Japan also sounds OK, I will try to undertake that then.
I'm not so sure where exactly we stand in research. We have Steam Power and Nationalism so far? We should go straight for ToE then first? And gift Greece into the IA and try and get their free tech if it is Medicine?
Northern Pike
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Ciceronian said:
I assume this is just a typo, but remember, we're planning a phony war against China, and a real one (with preliminary gifting) against Japan.
Ciceronian said:
Yes, as regards immediately gifting/trading the Greeks into the IA. But the idea is only to head for SciMeth/ToE if the Greeks draw Medicine as their free IA tech. Otherwise we should drive directly for Flight. Klarius's post #277 gives the details, and the mechanics of the trades.
Northern Pike
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An important point: we have six fast units in the north of our continent, so we should be able to do the Japanese gift-and-retake without declaring war with units on their territory, and so without damage to our reputation.
First do the trading/gifting -> maybe trading with Greece.
I looked into the save some more:
If we can get medicine, we should build a coal plant in Washington first. The 4 turns for that will be made up by the larger production towards the ToE prebuild.
In the other case a coal plant isn't needed before flight, because cavs are 2 turns already.
War with Japan should start with some gifting. I would gift Ephesus, Pharsalos, Knossos and Thermopylae, but you should prepare first to take all back immediately (and don't forget cities have to be empty).
Ronald has prepared a little for a war with Japan. There are some cavs available. Still you have to play it careful. Japan will have a bunch of ACs already. And there is a road from Sapporo to San Diego.
Klarius' style would be to capture Sapporo and immediately gift it to China (our probable next target). By that the ACs cannot surprise you, because there is no road within two tiles of our cities they can use. After that you probably can catch the ACs in the open and then push for some interesting targets (Yokohama, Satsuma maybe Kyoto). But the goal of this war is really to get a foothold on still another island down in the south (Hakodate, Shimonoseki, Ise).
There is a small complication - Matsuayama on the Tatung island. I would pretty much ignore it, except rush one cavalry in Anyang. We have 6 cities on that island, if we should lose one that's no big deal. But again I would rather gift the city to china instead of having it captured.
I really wanted the phony war with China, but this has to wait a bit because we need them to gift cities in an emergency.
I looked into the save some more:
If we can get medicine, we should build a coal plant in Washington first. The 4 turns for that will be made up by the larger production towards the ToE prebuild.
In the other case a coal plant isn't needed before flight, because cavs are 2 turns already.
War with Japan should start with some gifting. I would gift Ephesus, Pharsalos, Knossos and Thermopylae, but you should prepare first to take all back immediately (and don't forget cities have to be empty).
Ronald has prepared a little for a war with Japan. There are some cavs available. Still you have to play it careful. Japan will have a bunch of ACs already. And there is a road from Sapporo to San Diego.
Klarius' style
would be to capture Sapporo and immediately gift it to China (our probable next target). By that the ACs cannot surprise you, because there is no road within two tiles of our cities they can use. After that you probably can catch the ACs in the open and then push for some interesting targets (Yokohama, Satsuma maybe Kyoto). But the goal of this war is really to get a foothold on still another island down in the south (Hakodate, Shimonoseki, Ise).There is a small
complication - Matsuayama on the Tatung island. I would pretty much ignore it, except rush one cavalry in Anyang. We have 6 cities on that island, if we should lose one that's no big deal. But again I would rather gift the city to china instead of having it captured.I really wanted the phony war with China, but this has to wait a bit because we need them to gift cities in an emergency.
Northern Pike
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klarius said:
True enough, but let's bear in mind that the Japanese are just a laggard civ in an emperor game, and probably quite weak. We should keep taking Japanese mainland cities until the battle results tell us we have to stop, rather than fighting with limitations in mind. This could perfectly well be the war against the Japanese, not just one of the wars.
We don't need to stay out of the territory of the gifted cities if we declare immediately. We have done this already in this game more than once and haven't suffered a rep hit.Northern Pike said:
It will not be the last war against Japan. It's extremely unlikely that we get all three antarctic cities (there will be oil or uranium somewhere). I would try to keep the war short.
Don't underestimate the importance of leader fishing. An army or two on the Roman continent would be yum-yum. But naturally war weariness sets a final limit to the length of the war.klarius said:
The exact number of ACs is 6. It's a countdown, final or not.
I don't recall if they have iron or horses. (Pretty sure they don't have salpeter.) If either, pillage if possible. Check trades before the war. Cut trade routes. Envisage regular longbows and spearmen going to mass slaughter.
![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
I agree the war against China should wait a little bit. I don't think we have much to buy alliances for and the gifting to China sounds nice.
Ronald
Emperor
klarius said:There is a small
I don't think Matsuayama is any problem. It is not on their main continent and corrupt. There will be no advanced units, 2 to 3 spears and 1 to 2 archer/longbow at max. With 2 cavs it should be over.
Ronald
Emperor
klarius said:
We only need one and we probably get two. I would eliminate all Japanese cities on their main land. (maybe an alliance with Rome) and then make peace after 20 turns for antarctic cities. Rushing a harbor and 2 cavs will eliminate Japan completly.
One observation: Chinan is close to Japan and undefended. To be sure we should rush a unit there.
Ronald
Emperor
Just to be sure we all have the same understanding of future actions:
1) War against Japan: Eliminate as many of the mainland cities as possible (all if we can) and get at least one antartica city
2) China: I would capture Macau after Matsuayama andf leave China with the capital only. We have to deal with it after we have advanced flight.
3) Rome: Rome is the most advanced AI. I believe we should deal with them as soon as we have flight. Operation airflift to the main Roman continent. (having Rome fight with us against Japan could make them weaker?)
Maybe we should gift a few cities first to get island cities easier. Get alliance with England to keep our cities on this island save untill we can airlift troops there.
4) England: should be easy after Rome is almost done
5) Vikings: We need to wait for advanced flight. I would sign a RoP agreement with them and land a number of infantry enough to survive the first wave. Build a city on their island, disconnect their resources and airlift our troops. Some bomber support.
6) Parallel to the war against Scandinavia we need a few helicopters to deal with some islands such as: Tientsin, Aurelianorum etc.
As soon as we have a Rop with Scandinaviaand enough troops there, we don't need to take care about our reputation. So we can negotiate peace for island cities and declare war without waiting 20 turns.
And to give a prognosis about the final date:
Untill we get flight we should be able to reduce Japan to one or two cities.
In the time between flight and advanced flight Rome and England
After advanced flight Scandinavia and remaining isolated cities. That could be done in about 60 turns max. What do you think?
1) War against Japan: Eliminate as many of the mainland cities as possible (all if we can) and get at least one antartica city
2) China: I would capture Macau after Matsuayama andf leave China with the capital only. We have to deal with it after we have advanced flight.
3) Rome: Rome is the most advanced AI. I believe we should deal with them as soon as we have flight. Operation airflift to the main Roman continent. (having Rome fight with us against Japan could make them weaker?)
Maybe we should gift a few cities first to get island cities easier. Get alliance with England to keep our cities on this island save untill we can airlift troops there.
4) England: should be easy after Rome is almost done
5) Vikings: We need to wait for advanced flight. I would sign a RoP agreement with them and land a number of infantry enough to survive the first wave. Build a city on their island, disconnect their resources and airlift our troops. Some bomber support.
6) Parallel to the war against Scandinavia we need a few helicopters to deal with some islands such as: Tientsin, Aurelianorum etc.
As soon as we have a Rop with Scandinaviaand enough troops there, we don't need to take care about our reputation. So we can negotiate peace for island cities and declare war without waiting 20 turns.
And to give a prognosis about the final date:
Untill we get flight we should be able to reduce Japan to one or two cities.
In the time between flight and advanced flight Rome and England
After advanced flight Scandinavia and remaining isolated cities. That could be done in about 60 turns max. What do you think?
Good plan. Not quite sure about allying Rome against Japan though. We would probably have to break the deal before 20 turns. I don't think Rome will make peace until Japan is off the continent. Second question is whether we want Romans running around our rather fragile towns. They will start pumping out offensive units. But you're right that it will probably delay their research.
Ciceronian
Latin Scholar
I've started playing, and as discussed here, have carried out the following:
1. Gifted Metallurgy to Japan.
2. Gifted Greece into IA for 15 gpt. Hurray! They draw Medicine. But they don't really want to part with it. The lowest offer they would settle for is the following:
Steam Power + Military Tradition + 222 gold + 85 gpt. This is a very poor deal and I'm not sure if I should go for it. Ideas?
1. Gifted Metallurgy to Japan.
2. Gifted Greece into IA for 15 gpt. Hurray! They draw Medicine. But they don't really want to part with it. The lowest offer they would settle for is the following:
Steam Power + Military Tradition + 222 gold + 85 gpt. This is a very poor deal and I'm not sure if I should go for it. Ideas?
Ronald
Emperor
Ciceronian said:
I would give them Steam power + MT + xx gpt and get all gpt back with industry
Ciceronian
Latin Scholar
OK, done.
Currently Washington is at 42 spt. A coal plant takes 4 turns to build, ToE 15 turns. I think we should start ToE straight away with a Universal Suffrage prebuild. During the build time we can research 3 techs at 5 turns each. They should be Electricity, Sci-Method and Refining. Bonus techs will be Combustion and Flight. It doesn't matter though which of the three I research first, I will start with Electricity.
Currently Washington is at 42 spt. A coal plant takes 4 turns to build, ToE 15 turns. I think we should start ToE straight away with a Universal Suffrage prebuild. During the build time we can research 3 techs at 5 turns each. They should be Electricity, Sci-Method and Refining. Bonus techs will be Combustion and Flight. It doesn't matter though which of the three I research first, I will start with Electricity.
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