Shoshone!

[Pill]

Hey everyone,

I've been trying out the Shoshone practicing my jump from King to Emperor for a bit and was looking for tips.

The biggest strength I've found was immediately upgrading my Pathfinder to a Scout at the first ruin (practically guaranteed). Free tech for next ruin. Any ruins afterwards are just bonuses and aren't too common for my settings. The Scout at such an early stage in the game is just so powerful and it basically gets to harass, pillage, and take some workers or settlers single handedly because the AI seems so afraid of it.

I get a decent to strong start, but then I'm unable to snowball that into a victory. The UU is meh and a part of your UA is mostly irrelevant after the settling phase of the game stops. Your defense bonus wants you to turtle, but with the bonuses the AI gets at harder difficulties, they scale better than you do.

Do you try to rush for encampments early?
Do you try to expand as fast and as much as possible to utilize your UA? How do you deal with falling behind in science and culture when you go wide?
What victory conditions do you usually shoot for?
Any other tips?

 

[crdvis16]

If there's a way to get the strong faith ruin still for a super early pantheon then I would probably prioritize that- a fast pantheon into a strong religion is a big boost. I haven't played with ruins on for a while so I can't quite remember how it worked.

Their extra land on settle is really strong. Make sure you have plenty of early workers to take advantage of having access to strong tiles right off the bat- ideally every tile you work is immediately improved once you've got workers going. If you find yourself working unimproved tiles past the very early game then you probably don't have enough workers. I'd probably buy a worker with my first 150g unless I'm in heavy jungle with all tiles I can't improve yet.

I almost always reach for the tech that unlocks a civs UI/UU/UB. They are typical so strong that delaying them is a bad idea. So yes- I'd try to get encampments up ASAP.

I think progress works best with shoshone- their strength lies in that nearly every city they settle is strong right off the bat and progress plays into that well. I'd try to settle quickly and go wide and then rely on their defensive traits to keep me safe while I focus on infrastructure. I don't think they have much pushing them toward any one victory which would probably have me default to science personally.

 

[azum4roll]

I think you can select a faith ruin after turn 20 for the instant pantheon. That'll be earlier than non-religious deity AIs unless they're lucky to get a faith ruin too.

 

[Pill]

Thanks for the tips!
I rushed for encampments and then embarkation to go exploring for ruins on islands. Faith ruins are definitely insane and I managed to found an easy 2nd on Emperor with Tutelary Gods after getting lucky with 2.

 

[a3kov]

I think Authority is the best tree for Shoshone. They are one of the best land grabbers and where is land grabbing, there are always angry neighbors. Also Authority snowballs in the early game way faster, allowing you more cities, more armies, and more early buildings.
So the best way to play them is to aggressively forward settle 10-15 cities while pissing off everyone, and a huge army to defend (or to conquer, if you don't have enough land).

I think you can select a faith ruin after turn 20 for the instant pantheon. That'll be earlier than non-religious deity AIs unless they're lucky to get a faith ruin too.

In one of my immortal games an AI built Stonehenge on turn 18

 

[stii]

I guess the Ai got a tech ruin on t1 and started henge instantly and gt a production hut? I thought it was insane when the AI got it on t23, T28-32 is pretty normal and happened in all but one of my test games.

 

[Pill]

I think Authority is the best tree for Shoshone. They are one of the best land grabbers and where is land grabbing, there are always angry neighbors. Also Authority snowballs in the early game way faster, allowing you more cities, more armies, and more early buildings.
So the best way to play them is to aggressively forward settle 10-15 cities while pissing off everyone, and a huge army to defend (or to conquer, if you don't have enough land).


In one of my immortal games an AI built Stonehenge on turn 18

Yeah, I might just try that. I've been playing Shoshone as Progress for a bit and have been kind of annoyed at the slow settling speeds compared to the free settler Authority gets. This has been super noticeable as I go up in difficulty and the AI go crazy with early settling speeds.
Teracotta Army also seems fantastic for this for faster encampments (Military Theory is on the way too) and taking advantage of your defensive combat bonus to get culture.

 

[Gidoza]

Just wondering whether it's occurred to anyone to give Shoshone an alternate bonus to Ruin picks if Ruins are turned off?

 

[DeAnno]

Just wondering whether it's occurred to anyone to give Shoshone an alternate bonus to Ruin picks if Ruins are turned off?

It'd be nightmarish to code, but a free ruin pick on set turns, like the Maya with their UA, would kinda make sense.

 

[Gidoza]

It'd be nightmarish to code, but a free ruin pick on set turns, like the Maya with their UA, would kinda make sense.

That makes sense to me.

 

[Melchizedek]

Y'all should just turn ruins on a live a little. Maybe there's a way to automatically turn ruins on if you randomly roll Shoshone.

 

[Gidoza]

Y'all should just turn ruins on a live a little. Maybe there's a way to automatically turn ruins on if you randomly roll Shoshone.

For me (just imo), the game is random enough as it is without Ruins or Events, so I turn those both off. I think randomness is cool, but at the end of the day I find a game to be "illegitimate" if it doesn't have a tournament-style design - that is - very symmetrical balance and the like. Ruins and Events just take it too far for me and the camel got died.

 

[a3kov]

I guess the Ai got a tech ruin on t1 and started henge instantly and gt a production hut? I thought it was insane when the AI got it on t23, T28-32 is pretty normal and happened in all but one of my test games.

Since that time it happened to me multiple times. Several on t18, some on t19-22. So now I turn ruins off in all my games and it feels much better

 

[Stalker0]

I guess the Ai got a tech ruin on t1 and started henge instantly and gt a production hut? I thought it was insane when the AI got it on t23, T28-32 is pretty normal and happened in all but one of my test games.

I can say with the right starting terrain (and nothing too special, 1 3 food tile and 3 1f2p tiles)... I can consistently get henge on Turn 26 (25 with tradition) and no ruins. Its a standard opener of mine on the right starts