Should religions be enabled with techs?

[Head Serf]

The way the mod currently works, after a few turns into the game the five religions are assigned to the different players. I believe that there is a bug, considering I always found Judaism. Obviously this is only in random games where the holy cities are not pre-placed as they are on the Europe map.

My thought is that religions should be founded upon researching a certain technology, just as they are in the regular game. However, since all of the religions were founded before the time of the mod (except Islam), I think the techs should be near the beginning. Anyway, here are my thoughts for the five religions.

Judaism - Breeding Techniques
Paganism - Mysticism
Catholicism - Code of Laws
Orthodoxy - Monasticism
Islam - Coinage or Trade Routes

This way Judaism and Paganism would most likely be founded immediately, considering that Breeding and Mysticism are both starting technologies. My one question is whether Islam should be founded on the earlier Coinage or the next step up Trade Routes. The reason I chose these techs for Islam is because Mohammad was originally a merchant.

Is this a good idea? I personally feel something has to be done, because the current system is not working well.

 

[Head Serf]

Well, after looking a little testing and looking at my tech choices again, I've come to a few conclusions.

Firstly, I'm thinking it may be better to put paganism on a different tech, such as Sailing, so that Judaism would go to Mysticism. This way the chances are good that the founder of Judaism would also found Orthodoxy, which makes more sense than the founder of paganism also founding Orthodoxy.

Secondly, the civilization's starting techs will need to be changed to be more balanced and MAYBE better match the traits.

 

[Broken Hawk]

Is there room on the tech tree for, say, Monotheism? That would give you Judaism.

 

[Head Serf]

Well, Mysticism's name could be changed to Monotheism, which would make sense considering it leads to Monasticism and provides buildings for the monotheistic religions.

 

[Broken Hawk]

After thinking about it, I am conflicted on the matter because by tying the founding of religions to the researching of techs you are going to have holy cities end up in seemingly odd locations on the large and small maps. Yet on a random map it doesn't matter. Maybe I need to play a couple of turns on a random map to understand the depth of the problem you mentioned in your first post. I would be inclined to trying to fix that problem than mess with the tech tree.

 

[Head Serf]

Holy cities are preplaced on the large and small maps. Therefore, none of this will affect those at all. These changes would matter only for random maps.

 

[Broken Hawk]

OK, I suggest this:

Monotheism founds Judaism
Polytheism founds Paganism
Apostolic Authority founds Catholicism
Nicene Creed founds Orthodoxy
Submission founds Islam

 

[Head Serf]

Well, here's my little compromise I guess.

Change Mysticism to Monotheism, Judaism founded with Monotheism.
Paganism founded with Sailing
New Apostolic Authority tech between Code of Laws and Manorialism. Would found Catholicism and would be an optional path to Theology.
Monasticism would found Orthodoxy.
Islam founded with Trade Routes.

Starting techs would be distributed by traits. Since there are 9 traits and only 6 starting techs, several traits would have two options (not two techs, I'd just pick one).

Learned - Writing
Conqueror - Metal Casting or Lordship
Seafarer - Sailing
Pious - Monotheism
Architect - Stone Working
Industrious - Stone Working or Sailing
Influential - Lordship or Breeding Techniques
Financial - Breeding Techniques or Metal Casting
Wise - Writing or Lordship

 

[Broken Hawk]

Overall, it sounds fine to me except for Sailing founds Paganism. Are you thinking of the Vikings?

 

[Head Serf]

Specifically, yea. I couldn't think of anything better. I don't think there is anywhere to fit a Polytheism, and I'd like paganism to be founded with a starting tech.

 

[Drtad]

I disagree with this idea. It would make for a very ahistorical game. Some civs like Byzantium and Armenia already had a state religion, and it would make no sense if they founded another one based on a technology they researched. I really like the present system where all the civs have their religion, it is as accurate as you can make it.

 

[Head Serf]

Drtad, this is for random games only. Currently, in random games (not on a preset map), every civ randomly founds a religion about five turns in. The human player ALWAYS founds Judaism, and the others are random. Sometimes the Armenians found Islam, the Italians Orthodoxy, the Russians Catholicism, which I personally find very innacurate.

Under this system no changes would be made to the scenarios. In the maps that come with (the two europe maps), Italy would still found Catholicism, Viking Paganism, etc.

 

[Drtad]

Drtad, this is for random games only. Currently, in random games (not on a preset map), every civ randomly founds a religion about five turns in. The human player ALWAYS founds Judaism, and the others are random. Sometimes the Armenians found Islam, the Italians Orthodoxy, the Russians Catholicism, which I personally find very innacurate.

Under this system no changes would be made to the scenarios. In the maps that come with (the two europe maps), Italy would still found Catholicism, Viking Paganism, etc.

Ahhh.... I see. Carry on then, don't mind me.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

I had the same concerns as Drtad, answered nicely...