Arioch, I think you hit the nail on the head. CiV to me is a decent game with some problems. At the same time, it removes some of the things I didn't like (others did) like spys and corporations. And it added the hexes and 1UPT which I've always favored (at least, in a modified state) and wondered about the first time I played one of the civ games. Did they get it perfect? obviously not. but I personally like it better than the old movement system. Of course, that probably comes from a background with board games that used the hexes like the Avalon Hill series. Bottom line, a lot of people like the game - probably more than the percentages of this forum might suggest, because most people simply don't participate in something like this unless they have a complaint. This forum is called "civfanatics" and it's composed of those who really, really get into the whole civ thing. It also means there are more people on this forum who will find fault with the game; sometimes because it's a poorly designed, which is going to happen with any game, no matter how much time and energy go into its prep; and sometimes because it's simply different from what we expected or not what we specifically wanted. as stated earlier, i like no espionage or corporations; others loathe that V doesn't have them. to each his own.