Sid Spaceship

[Spoonwood]

From what I've gleaned, lots of players play 80% archipelago maps on Sid to keep the AIs in check with minimum opponents. But, that pretty much means resources can come as hard to get and invasions on Sid can end up as a bear. A diplomatic victory on Sid doesn't seem too bad, since you can just build Theory of Evolution to keep up/slightly lead in tech and then build the U. N. But, a spaceship game presents potential resource problems.. especially for a 80% map with minimum opponents. And then there's the exorbitant tech cost of Sid. I haven't tried a full SS Sid game yet, and I'd like to launch fast if I can. Any players have any strategies for this?

Also, would you think it harder to win by conquest/domination/histographic on Sid or by spaceship?

 

[vmxa]

Spaceship will be the hardest on an island map. I am dubious of any ToE. It is often built long before I have the tech. I am not sure about the Hist as I never paid attention to the scores. It could be a problem, but you will conquest or Dom anyway.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

2 approaches:

1) Use the Pangea "kill them all" approach - basically, make it a conquest game, then turn everything to space using science farms from the conquered land
2) pick a 70% arch map and just aim to keep up with the AI through trading until you get an infrastructure up. Do some invading to get resources, especially on smaller, non-core islands.

 

[Spoonwood]

Hmmm... maybe this...
Don't take your GA early on. The Great Library probably should enable you to keep up enough in the high middle ages and industrial ages that you can build the Theory of Evolution, taking the usual Atomic Theory and Electronics techs. That should get you to the modern age. Nail the Internet and take the modern age golden age and that might just give you enough to launch ahead of the AIs. Of course 100k might work out as a problem.

AutomatedTeller: I know Moonsinger used the Celts and the Chinese for some pangea Sid games... the China one had 8 scientific opponents on a huge map even. What's your pangea Sid war experience like?

 

[vmxa]

If you do not start with Alpha it is very hard to get the GLB. It is not a lock, even when you do start with Alpha. I would expect to do about 80-20 with and about the reverse without Alpha to start.

It would be less, but sometimes they do not research Lit for a long time and that gives me time to research it.

The next issue for me is that they seem to race for Education, once I make the GLB. Maybe that is just my paranoia. I have never seen the GLB get me into the IA at any level. Now I do not use any of the gift the town with it and take it back stuff.

I would consider that an massive exploit. Capture is not much of an option in any Sid game I recall. This is because it is seldom built close to me and whom ever makes, they will be tough so early, if they managed to built the GLB they are probably one of the top dogs. I also need Astro to reach them, if they are not close. This tends to mean I need ED.

I have had close nations, that I could jump with a small stack of galleys, but they have to be close, so I can run back and forth to get enough units in place, before disaster.

I have never built the ToE at Sid. That is probably some what due to my unwillingness to play nice. I do not try to keep them happy with me. I played one Pan game doing that and almost cried from the boredom. I quit as it was just no fun for me.

It is no problem to have a late GA, that I do most of the time. I am not going to build much in the way of wonders, just read about them. The early UU is only for barbs (if in the game) or back up in case of a big surprise.

I do get some of the Modern Age wonders as by that time I have a massive amount of land and towns and fear no one. Just grinding out those still around.

The only time I tend to get an early GA, is on a continent map. There I will surely be fighting for my life early. I like Smoke for those games. Can defend and can attack and can get slaves. Can get eliminated too, but then any nation can.

I normally play with only the Domination turned off, as I want to conquest them and they are not gong to win by domination or conquest anyway. If one of them got to domination limits, I would be long gone.

 

[Spoonwood]

By "get to the industrial age" I meant that the cash saved from not doing research pre-Education (other than to Literature) helps you to buy and trade for tech.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

no idea - never played a pangea sid game, at least not one i survived on.

 

[I. Larkin]

We had three SG Sid, and at Archipelago we thought about SS. However at IA AIs was dreadful and I desided to do just domination. Techs at Sid are so expesive that even at optimal City placement it takes 15-20 turns each at MA.
Continents (Sid avarage start, still at SG forum) was not hard. Suicide Galleys ensure Sci broker strategy easy.
Pangea was hardest (also still at SG forum), I did not finished it but now it is at the stage that it is just the matter of time.

 

[Spoonwood]

I saw that pangea Sid SS game I. Larkin. Persia looked awfully strong and lead you guys in tech quite a bit in the industrial age, and as I recall you guys trashed your reputation at least once, if not more than once. I can see you guys pulling off domination there, but how would you guys have pulled off the SS victory? Stealing a load of techs from Persia and hoping you don't get caught and they bomb and blitz your empire to shreads? Also, was Persia close to 130k condition there?

 

[Own]

If you do not start with Alpha it is very hard to get the GLB. It is not a lock, even when you do start with Alpha. I would expect to do about 80-20 with and about the reverse without Alpha to start.

It would be less, but sometimes they do not research Lit for a long time and that gives me time to research it.

The next issue for me is that they seem to race for Education, once I make the GLB. Maybe that is just my paranoia. I have never seen the GLB get me into the IA at any level. Now I do not use any of the gift the town with it and take it back stuff.

I would consider that an massive exploit. Capture is not much of an option in any Sid game I recall. This is because it is seldom built close to me and whom ever makes, they will be tough so early, if they managed to built the GLB they are probably one of the top dogs. I also need Astro to reach them, if they are not close. This tends to mean I need ED.

I have had close nations, that I could jump with a small stack of galleys, but they have to be close, so I can run back and forth to get enough units in place, before disaster.

I have never built the ToE at Sid. That is probably some what due to my unwillingness to play nice. I do not try to keep them happy with me. I played one Pan game doing that and almost cried from the boredom. I quit as it was just no fun for me.

It is no problem to have a late GA, that I do most of the time. I am not going to build much in the way of wonders, just read about them. The early UU is only for barbs (if in the game) or back up in case of a big surprise.

I do get some of the Modern Age wonders as by that time I have a massive amount of land and towns and fear no one. Just grinding out those still around.

The only time I tend to get an early GA, is on a continent map. There I will surely be fighting for my life early. I like Smoke for those games. Can defend and can attack and can get slaves. Can get eliminated too, but then any nation can.

I normally play with only the Domination turned off, as I want to conquest them and they are not gong to win by domination or conquest anyway. If one of them got to domination limits, I would be long gone.

What are your typical settings for these continents and pangaea Sid games? Maximum opponents or HoF minimum? What % water?

 

[vmxa]

I really do not have any settings for Pan games as I have played only a few of them. It looks to me like the best way to win at a Pan map is to stay on good terms and wait them out. By the time I get to the late Middle Age in that game, I want to hang myself. Trying to keep track off whom I have made a deal with lately or made a gift to, was a drag.

The one attempt to play "normal", I got eliminated fairly early. By normal I mean, make trades and pay demands and expand as best as you can and not start wars. I suspect normal or peaceful Pan would require no one desiring your head.

That can happen, but is not going to happen all the time, IMO.

Continents I play large or huge and random, except barbs. Those I flip a coin and choose either none or sed. Mainly for the reason that it can only help them and hurt me. Yes I could pop a few huts and not have barbs, but I will not be allowed to roam all over, so cannot get my fair share.

In island maps, no barbs as that game is going to be about slowing down tech and contacts. So they are almost always huge with 70% water. On water maps, I will go with 12 nations, counting me. I have done a few with 10, but it seems to be counter productive.

IOW is too few, someone may get too large. If most good land masses are settled by one nation, it will tend to make invasion by the AI impossible. Even the most backward Sid nation on an island will have too many junk units for the AI to take out, with superior units.

I finished a Sid game a week or so back as France that was random with lots of water, but it came out with 3 quite large continents and 1 or 2 large islands. All of those landmasses had 2 nations and was over run by someone. It was much harder that most island maps, due to the large land and the ability for them to make contacts a bit sooner.

IOW no one was backwards. Normally I would expect to find someone that was lost in the ocean.

I don't really know a lot about space as it is broken in my game and will crash. I probably would not play for UN or SS anyway. They would just be a consequence of elimination of most of the nations.

 

[Spoonwood]

They would just be a consequence of elimination of most of the nations.

May they rest with their swords and guns in peace.