Rusty Edge
Deity
Yes, era changes are cool.
Did you ever play Civ I ?
That "sad script" came from there, and I thought this was a nice homeage to the original .
But I'm in general agreement that the seriousness was better balanced in III.
sillyness of the game
- Thread starter gallego
- Start date
Yes, era changes are cool.
Did you ever play Civ I ?
That "sad script" came from there, and I thought this was a nice homeage to the original .
But I'm in general agreement that the seriousness was better balanced in III.
I completely agree with you. I personally hate cartoonish graphics - it makes me feel, like I'm playing "Fisher Price - my first Civ" game instead of the epic I was promised. I wish Civ2 style wonder movies were back. Go search on youtube to see what I mean - they are simply breathtaking. It's a game - and I can live without realism, but I absolutely need immersion. A game with epic gameplay like civ, should look like one. Save the cartoons for the FPS crowd...
I think "cartoonish" is always the best way to go... when you start to "try" and look more and more realistic, it just fails and looks flawed. The human eye picks up on these flaws immediately, and it just makes the graphics look more unnatural.
For example, Blizzard Entertainment usually keeps their games somewhat cartoonish, and it makes them look fantastic. Things can look more dramatic and have more personality than realistic graphics.
Just take a look at some good comic book art.
This is just my own opinion as an artist and architect. I'm not trying to be a fanboy of Civilization and defend them, but I'm pleased with what they've done overall.
Though, the leaderheads changing into oppropriate clothing for different eras would've been a very nice feature... I'm sure it was just graphically too much time to invest into doing during development. Even players that make mods have said that the new leaderheads are very difficult to work with and to make from scratch, which is why existing graphics are usually "recycled" to make new ones.
For example, Blizzard Entertainment usually keeps their games somewhat cartoonish, and it makes them look fantastic. Things can look more dramatic and have more personality than realistic graphics.
Just take a look at some good comic book art.
This is just my own opinion as an artist and architect. I'm not trying to be a fanboy of Civilization and defend them, but I'm pleased with what they've done overall.
Though, the leaderheads changing into oppropriate clothing for different eras would've been a very nice feature... I'm sure it was just graphically too much time to invest into doing during development. Even players that make mods have said that the new leaderheads are very difficult to work with and to make from scratch, which is why existing graphics are usually "recycled" to make new ones.
Gaius Octavius
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,016
Grimus, based on your other posts, I'd say you have one very good reason to support era changes and a more sophisticated look:
It would mean four versions of Queen Boudicca. Think of it: four different outfits for her.
It would mean four versions of Queen Boudicca. Think of it: four different outfits for her.
Psyringe
Scout
Yep. Do you remember the time when "Shrek" (the first one) and the "Final Fantasy" movie came out? Technically, FF had way better graphics - but for many people, Shrek looked better. One of the reasons was that Shrek clearly tried to be a progression of cartoon movies, while FF clearly tried to emulate realistic looks. As a result, people perceived Shrek as a "better cartoon", and FF as "a cartoon trying to look real, but not quite getting there and thus partly failing". The style of FF made many viewers focus on the flaws of the graphics - something that didn't happen with "Shrek", because Shrek never tried to be that much "realistic".
However, I think you (and I in the paragraph above) are using a different definition of "cartoony" than the other people in this discussion. With "cartoony", they don't mean "non-naturalistic", they mean that some of the graphics are exaggerated (and borderline caricatures, like e.g. Gandhi), as are some of the animations (Catherine slapping you, Alexander stroking his cheek etc.). I think most people who complain about the "cartoonishness could perfectly live with non-naturalistic graphics, if they looked and behaved a little more serious.
I'm not necessarily looking for realism - I simply don't want units that look like drawings for kids in my games. In fact I'd be perfectly happy with icons representing warriors/tanks etc.
The major reason we ended up with Dr. Seus version of Civ, is because developers were hoping to appeal to a broader audience, and make Civ look like something it really isn't. Civ is a strategy game...
Grimus, based on your other posts, I'd say you have one very good reason to support era changes and a more sophisticated look:
It would mean four versions of Queen Boudicca. Think of it: four different outfits for her.
Oh my... Gaius, why did you put those images into my head? (thanks!)
<3
<3
[faint]
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
One of the new BtS random events is marriages between civs so Grimus you can get married too!
brianshapiro
King
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2003
- Messages
- 775
King Flevance
Deity
Holycannoli
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 2,406
I for one don't like Blizzard's graphics, except for Diablo II. Warcraft looks too cartoonish, and Starcraft 2 also seems to have a non-serious look to it. World Of Warcraft is way too cartoonish for me.
And I don't like comic books or comic book art.
So basically I don't want my games to feature that sort of art. Especially Civilization. Civilization to me is the complete opposite of a "cartoonish" game, or should be. It used to be, but lost it's way with Civ IV. Cartoonish works for games like The Sims, Worms, etc. But for games like Civilization you need as realistic (or "serious") graphics and art as you can get.
Personally, totally realistic sound effects are a bit more important than totally realistic graphics, because realistic sound is much easier to achieve (in fact totally realistic graphics are still impossible) and thus the sound can enhance the semi-realistic graphics and still give you that illusion of total realism. Hope that makes sense!
Imagine Rome: Total War or Medieval 2: Total War with cartoonish graphics. You'd completely lose immersion in the game, or at least I would. Those two games aren't totally realistic, but they do a good enough job steering towards the serious and away from the cartoonish, plus the addition of realistic sound effects, that the total effect is successful, realistic, and immersive. Why can't Civ do the same? Or the real question: Why did they choose for Civ to not do the same?
Holycannoli, I have to ask... does your avatar have anything to do with how you feel?
Yep. Sometimes I just feel like two floating eyeballs and a grinning mouth, with a blue feather headdress and neckband. Really. It usually happens when I'm dehydrated.
That happens when you have crappy onboard video card. I thought it was funny till I realized I coundn't fix without moola.
SO ya, your avy isn't even doctered. Thats how he looks on my old computer 
*Blurts* Now me jam with 256 v card 1G ram, but jewel is 3.2 Athlon. With Mega huge end game only 30 second wait max! ..sorry just lovin that fact right now, You should see a 1000 units move in 20 second blur btw its Civ3 Im talkin! CIv4 still lags on it
Holycannoli
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 2,406
That happens when you have crappy onboard video card. I thought it was funny till I realized I coundn't fix without moola.
*Blurts* Now me jam with 256 v card 1G ram, but jewel is 3.2 Athlon. With Mega huge end game only 30 second wait max! ..sorry just lovin that fact right now, You should see a 1000 units move in 20 second blur btw its Civ3 Im talkin! CIv4 still lags on it
Shh I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: My avvy screenshot isn't actually mine. It's someone else's screenshot that I stole for my avatar. Not that I have a great computer, but mine can handle Civ IV relatively well.
The screenshot seemed to speak to me. It's like it said "Hey you! Make me your avatar and your dreams will come true" And you know what? They did! I actually did get frightened by a spider, go the beach and fly on a jetliner. I haven't fallen off a cliff or gone to school naked yet though so my avatar kinda lied to me.
King Flevance
Deity
Just make sure you go to school naked on Monday.
Slobadog
King
I don't mind the silly dialogue. What i don't like is the fact that it often doesn't mean anything. Genghis khan may tell me "i've studied on killin you" and declare war on me a few turns later. However if Ghandi says it it means absolutly nothing. Infact almost every piece of dialogue in the game is spoken by everybody which makes all the leaders personalites seem the same. Anybody in the game will tell me that the wages of sin are death even if they are not even christian or jewish. Cartoonish character design can be ok if the characters actually have personality but they don't. At the very least each character should have its own unique way of presenting a request or demand.
Holycannoli
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 2,406
Just make sure you go to school naked on Monday.
I graduated 14 years ago. I have no chance of going to school naked now unless I want to make national headlines.
See this silliness? This really has no place in a game like Civ. Here and there a little humor is OK but they went too far in Civ IV and I'd like them to get serious again in Civ V.
CanseiDeSerSexy
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2007
- Messages
- 43
I like it. It's cute. :B
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
If Monty taught invisibility powers to all his army he'd be a force to reckon with instead of launching a very visible attack with knights and macemen while you mop them up with your rifles, every game.
Lucky The Fox
Prince
Yes, the neon coloured soldiers flying to air when hit hard were just so realistic. I liked the game though.
Civ is the most mainstream turn based strategy game there is, so it has to appeal to people other than grumpy history buffs. If you want to play a serious strategy game with no eyecandy, just get such a game. There are plenty of little companies that cover your demography.
