Simple concept for Religious mod-

Nefairius

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Something that always irked me about Civ IV was the set-in-stone religions, and the very small number of choices chosen on essentially a modern popularity contest. (For example, the choice of Judaism over Zoroastrianism, though the latter was older, and arguably more influential then the prior, yet Judaism is relatively prevalent in culture today, thus being chosen.)


What I'd like to implement is either a random variable religion that you get when you research the appropriate technology. As an example, when you research the technology Polytheism, you might randomly receive Hinduism, (though technically not Polytheistic) or perhaps Asatruism, or Graeco-Roman religion, Egyptian, etc... Now, this would mean that one wouldn't see the same set of religions in every game, and I think it would really work well with the Civ theme where the Aztecs can build the Dai Miao.

Alternatively, one could choose which religion they wanted to found in that category when the appropriate technology was researched. Then we could all play with our little pet religion we find fascinating (unless the AI gets there first and chooses a different one in that category). Inevitably the AI would still randomly choose however.

I think this would create a balance between the desire for various different religions and religious diversity without spoiling play balance.

This looks like a two part project, the first and perhaps most complex aspect is how to create the random religion upon tech research. the second, more simple but time-consuming aspect is creating the custom icons, temple graphics and holy-shrines for said religion, as well as sound bites for them. (although initially recycling old sound would suffice)

Ultimately, I have no technical skills at all, so I made this thread to toss out the ideas for someone to hopefully create a mod of it.
 
An interesting idea, I've been thinking about an alternate earth mod myself.
 
First you'd need a lot of religions, to provide enough choice.
 
Figaro said:
First you'd need a lot of religions, to provide enough choice.

Well, in the scope of things that's the easy part, there are already existing mods that add or replace religions, and one could use the graphics from them. Temple graphics aren't particularly important either and designing graphic icons for the various religions is a simple matter itself.

The real effort in this area would be sounds and missionary units, which while can be recycled, wouldn’t be very good.

Initially, a total of around 21 options would be a good start I think, (around three for each corresponding founding-technology) and later editions or sub-mods could add them as desired.
 
OK then, 21 religions...

1. Catholicism
2. Protestantism
3. Orthodox Christianity
4. Judaism
5. Sunni Islam
6. Shi'ite Islam
7. Hinduism
8. Bhuddism
9. Taoism
10. Confucionism (if people insist, though I don't like it)
11. Zoroastianism
12. Sikhism
13. Baha'i
14. Shinto
15. Sikhism
16. Jainism
(dodgier ones begin here)
17. Aetheism?
18. Satanism?
19....

Can't think of any more without A) adding extinct ones without real names (I'm thinking Greek Polytheism etc.), or B) Splitting up Christianity even further which I would rather not do.
 
List of world religions as they stand now, from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

1. Christianity 2.14 billion
2. Islam 1.5 billion
3. Secular/Irreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism 1.02 billion (see below)
5. Buddhism 376 million, discluding Chinese folk Religion (see also Buddhism by country)
6. Chinese folk religion 394 million
7. Primal indigenous 300 million
8. African traditional and diasporic 100 million
9. Sikhism 23 million
10. Juche 19 million
11. Spiritism 15 million
12. Judaism 15 million
13. Mormonism 12 million
14. Bahá'í Faith 7 million
15. Jehovah's Witnesses 6.7 million
16. Jainism 4.2 million
17. Shinto 4 million (see below)
18. Cao Dai 4 million
19. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
20. Tenrikyo 2 million
21. Neopaganism 1 million
22. Unitarian Universalism 800,000
23. Rastafari movement 600,000
24. Scientology 500,000

Umm ... good thing there's more than 21, cause I don't want to see Tom Cruise, Great Prophet for the Scientologists. Adding in some older religions and you could get a good list.
 
I don’t think it would be fitting to have different sub-categories of the same religion as options for this, (Although one could easily add their own as they saw fit) If for example we allow Catholicism as a separate entity from the more generic “Christianity” then certainly we should have both Hinduism as well as Vaishnavism, despite being part of the same tradition. I think it detracts from other, distinct & unique religions and perhaps would be better suited for the “national religion” mod I’ve heard of.

At any rate, perhaps I should be helping with my own mod idea eh?

It seems to me that the developers put the various religions in places along the tech tree for balance reasons, If the consensus is correct, we should strive to maintain those as the founding techs and squeeze appropriate religious traditions into those categories.
However, one is still stuck deciding if “Sikhism” fits into the more basic “monotheism” or should be placed under “Theology”…. The specifics are ultimately irrelevant and best decided by discussion & debate.



Total Religion options thus far (That I consider to have solid independent footings)-

Druidic (Celtic)
Asatru (Germanic)
Ma’at* (Egyptian)
Olympian** (Graecko-Roman)
Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Taoism
Confucianism
Hinduism
Buddhism
Sikhism
Zoroastiranism
Bahá'í
Gnosticism*
Shinto
Jainism (I’m not positive on this, as I understand it, it is a variation of Hinduism)

It’s not 21, but it’s a good start.

*Ma'at, isn't technically a name for Egyptian mythology. AFAIK, a name did not exist, the idea of "religions" didn't exist. the term Ma'at, is basically a concept for truth and rational (the same for them) as well as order and justice; it's rather broad. It is essential in the beliefs, therefore I think it's about as good a name as you get. (Much better then "Egyptian religion/tradition/mythology". Consider a similar name for say, Judaism. How does "Isrealite Mythology"...

** As stated above, a name (AFAIK) does not exist for it. A word, or term, will be needed to separate the belief set from the civ it is associated with historically. Well informed suggestions are always nice.


And jdog5000, I don't think anyone wants to see Scientology as a possible choice. P
 
A lot of the list above I made has religions that are also understood as being an ethnically oriented religion, but in the cases of the first four, all of them spread outside of the ethnic homeland into other cultures, and I think that makes them a strong option.

I did not list any N/S American religions, mostly because of my ignorance on the issue, presumably we could have the Aztec 'blood cult" or Incan traditions, if the civilization was worthy enough for inclusion, so should their religion.

Educated suggestions for those would be appreciated.
 
What a cool idea!
With the addition of the Select Religion Menu Option it looks like tine to revisit this Mod/Idea as some of the harder coding work has already been done.

Many of the button Icons and Temple buildings should be easy enough to source. As you say the Missionary units will be harder but having browsed the Mod-units directories quite a bit, I think the missionary's are available for most faiths without having to do your own. There is a lot less available for the music jingles for when you spread faith to a city so that will require some work or a handy collaborator perhaps the folks doing the national religion mod (link please) you mentioned could give you some aid.

I don’t think it would be fitting to have different sub-categories of the same religion as options for this, (Although one could easily add their own as they saw fit) If for example we allow Catholicism as a separate entity from the more generic “Christianity” then certainly we should have both Hinduism as well as Vaishnavism, despite being part of the same tradition. I think it detracts from other, distinct & unique religions and perhaps would be better suited for the “national religion” mod I’ve heard of.

At any rate, perhaps I should be helping with my own mod idea eh?

It seems to me that the developers put the various religions in places along the tech tree for balance reasons, If the consensus is correct, we should strive to maintain those as the founding techs and squeeze appropriate religious traditions into those categories.
However, one is still stuck deciding if “Sikhism” fits into the more basic “monotheism” or should be placed under “Theology”…. The specifics are ultimately irrelevant and best decided by discussion & debate.

I would put Sikhism under monotheism rather than Theology as it is more well known for being a Monotheistic faith than for its adherents theological studies (Sikh's being more known for orthodoxy than wrangling over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin)

Total Religion options thus far (That I consider to have solid independent footings)-

Druidic (Celtic)
Asatru (Germanic)
Ma’at* (Egyptian)
Olympian** (Graeko-Roman)
Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Taoism
Confucianism
Hinduism
Buddhism
Sikhism
Zoroastrianism
Bahá'í
Gnosticism*
Shinto
Jainism (I’m not positive on this, as I understand it, it is a variation of Hinduism)

It’s not 21, but it’s a good start.

*Ma'at, isn't technically a name for Egyptian mythology. AFAIK, a name did not exist, the idea of "religions" didn't exist. the term Ma'at, is basically a concept for truth and rational (the same for them) as well as order and justice; it's rather broad. It is essential in the beliefs, therefore I think it's about as good a name as you get. (Much better then "Egyptian religion/tradition/mythology". Consider a similar name for say, Judaism. How does "Israelite Mythology"...

** As stated above, a name AFAIK does not exist for it. A word, or term, will be needed to separate the belief set from the civilization it is associated with historically. Well informed suggestions are always nice.

Druidic (Celtic) is a good choice The Celtic Renaissance/migration/wave/whatever saw many peoples adopt druidic practices.

Asatru (Germanic) Is not such a great choice as it may have spread from its origin point in Scandinavia and Germany but it's adherents were still from within the originating cultures. There were not job lots of Franks, Icenni, Welsh and Irish converting.

Ma’at* (Egyptian) is good as surrounding peoples were swayed to the faith and even had the later Ptolemies proselytizing it.

** Olympian is a good name choice and most people will understand who you are referring too. And another good example as the Romans adopted and spread the faith.

Gnosticism*
Is going to be tricky as their core beliefs can be wildly differing and later christian reinvention and tinkering with the historic record muddies the waters a lot.


Jainism. Well CivIV has both Judaism and Christianity so perhaps separate Hinduism and Jainism in the same way Monotheism->Theology will give a somewhat historic time spread.

And jdog5000, I don't think anyone wants to see Scientology as a possible choice. P


Could be good to spice up the dull later part of the tech tree. :p
Just link it to the Space Elevator tech and require Mass media.
Drop in an Easter egg in at Future Tech 20 to have all the scientologists removed for an Assention (Pyrrhic) Victory
 
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