Slowing down the AI

[Metropolis Man]

Currently I'm in a Monarch game (my first!) and things aren't too shabby. I'm on a huge map with 16 opponents. I'm playing Greece and I'm currently researching Economics. About 4 civs are right with me in tech and a few must be ahead and also researching Economics because when I finished Banking it was not available to sell to them and they had Invention and Astronomy (I don't).

So I'm considering trying something I've never tried before — Military Alliances for the purpose of slowing down selected Civ's reseach rate...in other words if I can buy someone to go at war with someone else I'll have more of a chance a nabbing Smith's Trading Company — this is a great Wonder. I've not even tried building any Wonders but Smith's, Hoover and ToE I think are worthwhile.

So let's say I can convince the Aztecs to sign a Military Alliance against Egypt (these are the top two Civs in the game) — I don't even know if they can be bought — if I never attack Egypt myself and let Aztecs do all the dirty work am I still at risk? I have negligible defense. Thanks.

 

[Kiech]

It depends on how far away they are from you. If you have either water seperating you from those AI, or another civ, then go for it. Just make sure that your boarder civ is in the alliance as well. If they are both on your boarder, then pick whomever has the smaller boarder. If they both have to go right through you, forget it.

I do this all of the time with great sucess.

 

[Midnight Piper]

I always sign alliances with about half the Civs, trying to make sure that the target Civ has a decent relationship with the remainder so that he'll start getting the remaining Civs to sign alliances against my 'faction' members. Done right you can get the whole world fighting and signing alliances against each other for hundreds of turns, while declaring war against only a single oppoent yourself then bowing out at the end of your 20 turn agreement.

 

[Metropolis Man]

But my real question still remains — if I never do any of the fighting myself am I still at risk? Is getting another Civ to declare war on Egypt a declaration of war by myself?

 

[Kiech]

You are at risk, of course. But if they are busy fighting the rest of the world, and they are far away, you will probably never see a single unit from the AI. Any that do happen to wander into your lands should be fairly easy to pick off, unless you are seriously skimping on your military.

 

[IbnSina]

But my real question still remains — if I never do any of the fighting myself am I still at risk? Is getting another Civ to declare war on Egypt a declaration of war by myself?

Yes, you need to be at war in order to have the alliance. If the Aztecs are closer to the Egyptians than you are, then they will probably do most of the fighting, but you will need to be ready to deal with occasional Egyptian units. Even if they are on another continent they'll send pathetic little raiding parties from time to time. If they are on your continent, you'll need to be prepared for a bit of fighting.

Smith's is great - I hope you have your prebuild pretty well along...

 

[Metropolis Man]

Yes, you need to be at war in order to have the alliance. If the Aztecs are closer to the Egyptians than you are, then they will probably do most of the fighting, but you will need to be ready to deal with occasional Egyptian units. Even if they are on another continent they'll send pathetic little raiding parties from time to time. If they are on your continent, you'll need to be prepared for a bit of fighting.

Smith's is great - I hope you have your prebuild pretty well along...

I lost Smith's. Monarch is really tough. The AI builds things so much quicker. On a related note to my Military Alliance question — I got the message that India and Egypt had signed a military alliance against America. So I hit F4 to see what the relationships are. There was no red line bewteen India and America, but there was one between Egypt and America.

 

[KabeDerlin]

There's an article in the War Academy called "Rogue State." I can;t remember who wrote it but it is a good article that might help you in this situation.

 

[IbnSina]

I lost Smith's. Monarch is really tough. The AI builds things so much quicker. On a related note to my Military Alliance question — I got the message that India and Egypt had signed a military alliance against America. So I hit F4 to see what the relationships are. There was no red line bewteen India and America, but there was one between Egypt and America.

Yeah, Monarch can be a bit of a shock the first few times you play it. It sounds as if you're doing well. On my first try I got a hilly (low food) start and got annihilated before the end of the ancient age, so you're doing much better.

When the tech race is tight, then the only way you can get a wonder is to use prebuilds. I always have an idea in my head of how many shields the desired wonder will cost me, and start thinking about it when I still have several techs to learn for the wonder. The idea is to try to get the wonder within a couple of turns of learning the tech - otherwise the AI will switch/cascade from another wonder, or just outbuild you to get the wonder first. Any time you learn the tech and have e.g. 15 turns before you can build the wonder, it's a big, fat, "why bother." Thus, to get Smith's, I usually start my palace prebuild about the time I get Education, or even earlier.

As regards India, I can't say what happened with the red lines, but if India signed an alliance against America, then it is certain that they are (or were) at war with America. Making the alliance constitutes a declaration of war.

 

[IroquoisPlisken]

Do you have an embassy with India? If not, you won't be able to tell who they are at war with. There should be a yellow dot next to his picture on F4.

 

[Metropolis Man]

My Monarch game is going well. Through some pretty shrewd trading and turning down the research slider to 0, I've been able to keep up with the AI — a lot of purchasing of techs. At certain times I've been raking in 490/gpt. I was 3 turns from ToE and Persia nabbed it. I was pissed because it was a total shock. I investigated the other two cities that were building it and they were 10 turns behind me. I wonder if Persia had a leader come in at the last minute for a rush job.

I noticed that the frontrunners had finished research on Steel, Refining, and then Combustion. So the second I discovered a few of them had combustion I purchased it and was actually able to turn around and sell it to a couple other Civs.

Here's the heartbreak — I thought the AI would naturally go for Mass production next since it would flow from what they had just finished. I turned up the research slider to 100% and went for Atomic Theory. If I could just get one tech the leader did not have I could take a lot of their research funding away by selling it. Alas someone beat me to it by 2 turns. Is there a pattern the AI follows for research? Right now I have three choices — Flight (14 turns), Mass production (11 turns) or Electronics (14 turns). If all the AI go after a certain one I'm pretty sure I could beat them to another. Any thoughts?

 

[IbnSina]

There is a random element in it, but Alexman has written a useful article:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ai_research.shtml.
It's a bit dated, but has some good hints. On the other hand, if I can't research a tech in 7 turns or less, I don't bother - I buy it. The AI will get it before you. By the middle ages, one must be doing 4-6 turn research to make it worth doing at all. Build those marketplaces, banks, libraries!

 

[Randy]

This will work.

1) Declare war on the AI who is in the tech lead.
2) Get every other AI to join the war.
3) Wait 20 turns and end all war deals.
4) make peace on turn 21.

You may get free techs, workers, and/or size 1-2 cities.

Note: The better your rep. is the less it will cost to dog pile. Some AI may pay you as much as 10-20gp just to join the war. Some may want a resorse or tech. If you have a bad rep. the other AI may not join at any cost.

This will slow all AI research, and the target AI will have no one to trade with. They may even go to last place in the tech race.

 

[Metropolis Man]

This will work.

1) Declare war on the AI who is in the tech lead.
2) Get every other AI to join the war.
3) Wait 20 turns and end all war deals.
4) make peace on turn 21.

You may get free techs, workers, and/or size 1-2 cities.

Note: The better your rep. is the less it will cost to dog pile. Some AI may pay you as much as 10-20gp just to join the war. Some may want a resorse or tech. If you have a bad rep. the other AI may not join at any cost.

This will slow all AI research, and the target AI will have no one to trade with. They may even go to last place in the tech race.

Randy — the problem is I have spearmen guarding my cities! If the tech leader came after me it would be bad news for me.

 

[Randy]

Randy — the problem is I have spearmen guarding my cities! If the tech leader came after me it would be bad news for me.

Yes, but at war with 7 civs. unless you are next to him he will be a little busy to go far.

These are general guidelines.

Some factor to consider are:

1) Just how far you are behind in tech race, if you are to far behind and short of cash this won't work.

2) Distence to target AI + your defence/offence in the closest cities.

3) World type, can the other AIs really help or are they stuck on some far off island?

Goodluck, It takes a little practice to now when you can get away with a dog pile.

One last thing if you get attacked dog pilling that AI can be a big help if your not in a possition to handle then on your own.

 

[Metropolis Man]

I won in 1764 with a Diplomatic Victory — by the skin of my teeth I might add. I bought Fission from Persia the second they finished it and was prebuilding the United Nations with Battlefield Medicine. When I switched unit construction I still had 12 turns to go. When I got down to 9 turns I noticed Russia was also building UN. I investigated and they also had 9 turns. With 6 turns left I signed six Mutual Protection Pacts and then declared war on Russia — they were on a separate continent and I never did notice any action at all. I have no idea if this slowed them down because I could not check their UN status. With 3 turns left I mined 2 irrigated grassland tiles which put me in a shortage — but the granary had extra. It gained me an extra turn and I think that did it.

My first Monarch win! Whew — I'm exhausted. That took so much more thought than previous games....