Snarky AI messages...

[Doctor Phibes]

I find these really really sad and incredibly tedious. You know the sort of thing - 'Nice to see my favourite city state again...' etc etc. What is the point really?

I know that it means the AI player is Hostile. In fact it is a good idea to have a notifier that this has happened, a little unobtrusive right of screen thing would do, just once - and maybe also when they stop being Hostile, should that ever occur, (which it doesn't seem to). But a honking great leaderhead screen that actually invites a response? And that pops up not just when they become Hostile, but every now and then while they remain so.

What difference does it make whether you click on 'You will pay for this' or 'Very Well'? I always go for the latter, because I'm not going to descend to their level, particularly when it's the saddest opponent who tells me I'm pathetic when I'm first on almost every demographic. But I've no idea what effect my choice has.

Is this maybe the game designers trying to crudely poke players with a stick? Perhaps they think it will get our adrenalin going and make the game more involving. Well, as Dennis Healey once said, 'it's like being savaged by a dead sheep'. Repeatedly.

I just do not get what passes for diplomacy in Civ5.

 

[glaivemaster]

I find this really fun, but maybe it's just my way of playing civ - loudly, with lots of cursing the AI. I like to imagine my opponents have some form of character (even if I know they don't), and even when I've seen a message so many times, it's still kinda fun to give me an excuse to hate the AI.

Particularly when it's the smallest AI - one game I had almost entirely crushed Darius but stopped because of happiness. For the rest of the game he just kept coming and randomly insulting me because he was too impotent to do anything else, but it felt like he was still trying anyway.

 

[DalekDavros]

and maybe also when they stop being Hostile, should that ever occur, (which it doesn't seem to).

I've seen it happen. But, like the rest of the diplomacy in Civ 5, it seems to happen without regard to any specific actions on my part.

 

[Old_Man_River__]

My very favorite so far has to be "there is your face again, I am actually hoping one day you might just go away." priceless.

As for how your response affects relations, I'm also at a loss.

 

[Old_Man_River__]

I've seen it happen. But, like the rest of the diplomacy in Civ 5, it seems to happen without regard to any specific actions on my part.

They did mention that your focus affects how leaders feel.

Ex. If you have great commerce then elizibeth will feel better about you, as she supposedly specialzes in accumulating wealth.

 

[Doctor Phibes]

I find this really fun, but maybe it's just my way of playing civ - loudly, with lots of cursing the AI. I like to imagine my opponents have some form of character (even if I know they don't), and even when I've seen a message so many times, it's still kinda fun to give me an excuse to hate the AI.

Particularly when it's the smallest AI - one game I had almost entirely crushed Darius but stopped because of happiness. For the rest of the game he just kept coming and randomly insulting me because he was too impotent to do anything else, but it felt like he was still trying anyway.

Well, you know, don't get me wrong - I'm not against the AI coming up with some sort of anthropomorphic response, it's just that I find these silly and patronising (patronising by the game designers that is, not the AI player - like all the 'pointiest sticks' and 'shiny things' stuff. Yuk yuk yuk.)

But in other games, from Alpha Centauri to Civ4, firstly these gave you some way to reasonably evaluate threat levels.

Second - and I think this is the reason for these daft messages - in both the games I mention there is an ideological aspect along with others (like having your spy caught in their territory), so relations between players are multi-dimensional. That meant there was much more to talk about - and you had a good idea how what you said would influence the AI player too. There's simply very little to talk about with them in Civ5 and I think that's why we are being spammed with this nonsense.

 

[MadRat]

In the absence of any indication of what your relations are they just seem totally random- and nonsensical.

China was the smallest (1 city) in one and it was commenting to me (18 cities) on how puny my army was (3rd largest). You feeling suicidal there lass? =P

rat

 

[Doctor Phibes]

In the absence of any indication of what your relations are they just seem totally random- and nonsensical.

China was the smallest (1 city) in one and it was commenting to me (18 cities) on how puny my army was (3rd largest). You feeling suicidal there lass? =P

rat

This kind is the only one that does make me LOL now and then. Got the same from Cathy in an archipelago game - and I did have a puny army. But I would have wanted to point out that her navy consisted of a single embarked spearman (the AI sometimes seems to think embarked ground troops will somehow substitute for proper naval units), whereas I had three veteran ships of the line standing off her coast, and plenty more ships in reserve. You have to get that army to me if you want to use it, honey. Talk to Napoleon about it.

It's funny. But it does make the game seem kind of childish after a while.

 

[shinkicker]

The one I can never figure out is when a leader tells you "Doesn't it bother you when some people like to pick on the weak?"

The first time I saw that, I hadn't had any wars yet. Then I saw it again after I'd taken out one city state to please another one I was trying to make friendly. And a few hundred years later, the AI leaders were still bringing it up.

I asked Elizabeth for a trade deal once because I needed silk. She demanded a whole list of luxury resources in exchange for one silk, and when I declined she informed me that I really should work on my diplomacy. That one made me laugh out loud.

 

[Johan de Witt]

The one I can never figure out is when a leader tells you "Doesn't it bother you when some people like to pick on the weak?"

When they say this, I think they're trying to tell you that they think they are weak themselves, so you shouldn't fear them in any way. At least, I was never attacked by a leader who said that in the past turns.

 

[jjkrause84]

I hate it. WHY reduce some of the greatest world leaders of all time to a bunch of idiotic 7-year-olds on the playgrounds calling each other 'stupid-faces', etc. Same thing with the 'pointiest sticks' nonesense.....I wanted to vomit the first time I saw that.

Somehow it doesn't quite compare with, 'Herodotus has completed his work on the world's largest nations' (etc.). There seems to be a serious loss of the game's sense of (and respect for!) history. Sure there were always little history jokes here and there but nothing this brainless.

 

[Maxor127]

The problem I have with these is that they seem pointless. I can't tell what effect responding one way or another will have. I usually just say yeah yeah whatever, unless I really want to goad someone into war, which never seems to work.

 

[Shabbabaram]

I gave up on diplomacy with the AI... I play some with the City-states because they're just straight-forward and I can understand them.

the only real reason I would ever want to be diplomatic with AI civs is to trade maps (which you can't do anymore) and get resources (which I just get from city states)...

So I just conquer them, and dismiss everything they say...

Why is there a friend graph on a city-state and not a civ?? The difference is... their expansion... and that's it...

 

[Doctor Phibes]

I hate it. WHY reduce some of the greatest world leaders of all time to a bunch of idiotic 7-year-olds on the playgrounds calling each other 'stupid-faces', etc. Same thing with the 'pointiest sticks' nonesense.....I wanted to vomit the first time I saw that.

Somehow it doesn't quite compare with, 'Herodotus has completed his work on the world's largest nations' (etc.). There seems to be a serious loss of the game's sense of (and respect for!) history. Sure there were always little history jokes here and there but nothing this brainless.

Yes - it wasn't perfect, but Civ4 was a literary epic compared with this. Going to really appreciate that more when I go back to it. Though the best writing, I think, was in SMAC. Apart from quoting Aristotle's Nicomachaean Ethics and so forth (classy), the SMAC leaders really knew how to do threats and put downs and especially DOWs:

[From the code]

"Then I shall sweep aside your $<M1:$FACTIONPEJ3> faction, and when you
lie chained at my feet I shall savor each and every one of your
pathetic cries for mercy. Vendetta be upon you, $TITLE0 $NAME1!"

"Always the insouciant one, eh, $NAME1? It is sad that
exterminating your pathetic faction will provide so
little sport."

[...]

etc etc. Now we're talking! You can't accuse these guys of passive aggression...

 

[Frosty_AUT]

I always imagine that there's some sort of hidden meaning in those answer choices:

Very well = Do I look like I give a damn? Anyway, I'll kill you sooner or later.
You'll pay for this = You're already dead.

 

[Guardian_PL]

Yes - it wasn't perfect, but Civ4 was a literary epic compared with this. Going to really appreciate that more when I go back to it. Though the best writing, I think, was in SMAC. Apart from quoting Aristotle's Nicomachaean Ethics and so forth (classy), the SMAC leaders really knew how to do threats and put downs and especially DOWs:

[From the code]

"Then I shall sweep aside your $<M1:$FACTIONPEJ3> faction, and when you
lie chained at my feet I shall savor each and every one of your
pathetic cries for mercy. Vendetta be upon you, $TITLE0 $NAME1!"

"Always the insouciant one, eh, $NAME1? It is sad that
exterminating your pathetic faction will provide so
little sport."

[...]

etc etc. Now we're talking! You can't accuse these guys of passive aggression...

Good Lord, (I'm atheist, but still), I'd give soooooo much to see stuff like that from SMAC in Civ5 instead of that 7-year-old schoolyard bully bragging that is there now. It's so frakingly infantile, idiotic and infuriating to read such idiocy over and over again from great leaders of legendary nations

Seriously, SMAC is the best game ever, what a gem...

And I can't even imagine how that "people with pointest sticks" can be regarded as amusing. Maybe if you're into Al Bundy style sitcoms, then yeah, perhaps. But why I must suffer because of that?

Sigh, those overhaul mods for Civ5 can't come soon enough...

 

[Svest]

I find these really really sad and incredibly tedious. You know the sort of thing - 'Nice to see my favourite city state again...' etc etc. What is the point really?

I know that it means the AI player is Hostile. In fact it is a good idea to have a notifier that this has happened, a little unobtrusive right of screen thing would do, just once - and maybe also when they stop being Hostile, should that ever occur, (which it doesn't seem to). But a honking great leaderhead screen that actually invites a response? And that pops up not just when they become Hostile, but every now and then while they remain so.

What difference does it make whether you click on 'You will pay for this' or 'Very Well'? I always go for the latter, because I'm not going to descend to their level, particularly when it's the saddest opponent who tells me I'm pathetic when I'm first on almost every demographic. But I've no idea what effect my choice has.

Is this maybe the game designers trying to crudely poke players with a stick? Perhaps they think it will get our adrenalin going and make the game more involving. Well, as Dennis Healey once said, 'it's like being savaged by a dead sheep'. Repeatedly.

I just do not get what passes for diplomacy in Civ5.

I especially get a kick out of the ones that tell me I have a pathetic little military when I've already steamrolled half the world and am not going to be stopping any time soon.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I like the little interaction. It's often fair warning that something's not business as usual. If they don't like you doing something, it's generally these messages that give the hints.

It actually doesn't feel entirely different from SMAC. The AI relationship had a lot to do with the text they were saying compared to anything else (there were no relationship modifiers listed, for example). SMAC probably had better lines, though (although, from what I understand of Latin, Augustus' declaration of war is awesome).

 

[Jaroth]

I believe it does have a use.

"Very well" = no diplomatic modifier.

"You'll pay for this in time!" = negative diplomatic modifier.

You would WANT to give a leader a negative diplomatic modifier if you're interested in picking a fight with them. Get them mad at you and they'll declare war on you so that you don't have to. You'll look like less of a warmonger to the rest of the world and you'll be able to give the civ you're at war with a nice beating.

You get painted as a warmonger very quickly in this game. So if there's a civ you have your predatary eyes set on, don't be a phony and act polite to the civ.

If they tell you your troops are too close to their borders, tell them, "deal with it!". If they tell you to stop settling lands near them or purchasing tiles, again tell them, "deal with it!". Make some demands. Tell THEM to move their troops from your borders. Ally with city-states neighboring them.

Soon enough, you'll get the war you want without having to declare it yourself and you'll look like you're only "defending yourself" instead of a warmonger.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I've had Montezuma do this to me quite a bit, especially when he has only a few cities and everyone else is big. I just shake my head and click 'very well'. It reminds me of Hugo Chavez, Ahmedinejad, or Kim Jong-Il spouting anti-American tripe.