Buy it
Some advice from any Hardware Guru's (computer spec for Civ5)
- Thread starter ImperialGuard
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Buy it
City Builder
Complicated Complication
Sounds very similar to my system, except I went with the AMD 965 (~3.4GHz), and I added 8GB of memory and I already had my Nvidia 275 gtx. Oh and mine is not from cyberpower, I built it out of components that I had researched at the time.
I'd be likely to buy that if the components are made by a quality firm, but I would make sure that it can accept up to at least 8gb of RAM, (mine will accept up to 16GB), and I'd much likely to replace the video card with either a 2 series or a 4 series card. But as it is, it sounds like an okay deal to me.
You may want to ask them what upgrades it will accept for example...
1. What is the most powerful CPU that you can put in the mainboard on that computer
2. What is the maximum amount of RAM that the mainboard will accept
So that if it comes time to upgrade again, you'll have as many options as possible, like replacing the CPU to get every last ounce of oomph out of the computer instead of replacing the entire computer again maybe just a CPU upgrade might hold you over another year or three. If I'm not mistaken my MSI mainboard will accept up to a 1055T 6 core with a simple bios upgrade. And I'm likely to add the 6 core middle of next year instead of building a whole new computer again like I usually do every 10 to 12 months.
MarkJohnson
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While this is a pretty good deal, why not go to cyberpowerpc.com and buy direct? They have a summer ending sale and you can get the same system for less, plus free watercooled cpu, free memory upgrade from 1333mhz to 1600mhz, and free shipping(save about $25)
I'd definitely replace the aging 9700 with something new like a 5770 (you get a free game if you buy a amd cpu with ati card) or one of the 400 series nvidia cards.
the 9800gt only supports DX10, while the ATI 5000 & nvidia 400 series support not only DX10, but DX 10.1 and, more importantly, DX11 which Civ V supports.
City Builder
Complicated Complication
Raise of hands... How many games do you own that take advantage of Directx 10, or Directx11?
I've got one that uses directx10 if I set it to, other than that the vast bulk of my games all run with Directx 9.
Have many game developers been taking advantage of Directx11 besides Civilization 5? I saw on the Cyberpowerpc website about the Nvidia graphics card how they mentioned games that utilize DX 11 and they only listed civ 5.
I guess my point might be... Don't be the dog that constantly chases his tail. Get the best you can get now, but don't go chasing your tail afterwards constantly worrying about what the latest tech is unless you have software that can even utilize that tech. I used to be like that and it cost me a small fortune, Now I let my games and other software direct what I'm going to purchase based on what tech they are capable of using.
Case in point, I bought the Nvidia 275GTX because it utilizes DX10, however only one of my games supports DX10, I wouldn't go buying a new graphics card only because it supports DX11 since V will be the only game that I've got that supports it and i have a LOT of games here. I'm sure there are quite a few titles that support DX10 and maybe will adopt and update to use DX11, although if history proves itself again, the vast majority of games will NOT update to take advantage of anything that Dx11 can bring to them. So just watch what you are buying hardware wise and if you need it. Obviously if you are buying a new system you want to get what ever is as most forward reaching as you can, like DX11, but you know, DX12 won't be that far into the future, so you'll be behind the tech again at that point anyway.
I've got one that uses directx10 if I set it to, other than that the vast bulk of my games all run with Directx 9.
Have many game developers been taking advantage of Directx11 besides Civilization 5? I saw on the Cyberpowerpc website about the Nvidia graphics card how they mentioned games that utilize DX 11 and they only listed civ 5.
I guess my point might be... Don't be the dog that constantly chases his tail. Get the best you can get now, but don't go chasing your tail afterwards constantly worrying about what the latest tech is unless you have software that can even utilize that tech. I used to be like that and it cost me a small fortune, Now I let my games and other software direct what I'm going to purchase based on what tech they are capable of using.
Case in point, I bought the Nvidia 275GTX because it utilizes DX10, however only one of my games supports DX10, I wouldn't go buying a new graphics card only because it supports DX11 since V will be the only game that I've got that supports it and i have a LOT of games here. I'm sure there are quite a few titles that support DX10 and maybe will adopt and update to use DX11, although if history proves itself again, the vast majority of games will NOT update to take advantage of anything that Dx11 can bring to them. So just watch what you are buying hardware wise and if you need it. Obviously if you are buying a new system you want to get what ever is as most forward reaching as you can, like DX11, but you know, DX12 won't be that far into the future, so you'll be behind the tech again at that point anyway.
MarkJohnson
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I have more DX11 games than hands anyway. and more dx10 than fingers. lol
List of DX11 games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support
There are 6 current DX11 games with 7 more this year ( the next, little over, 2 months)
List of DX10 games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_10_support
There's over 50 titles listed, plus a dozen or so soon to be released. some cross over DX11 as DX11 is part of the DX10 API.
Which is why you get DX11 support now, instead of only DX10, and avoid upgrading again in the possible near future.
I agree, don't buy a video card for a single game, well unless you really think you will play it enough to justify the added costs.
but the above poster is buying a new system, so it would seem pointless to buy outdated equipment. I mean that 9800 GT is three generations old. A low end new card would out perform it easily at the same cost or less. Plus with a newer card you get added benefits, with just ONE being DX11. and a big benefit is that DX10.1 and DX11 support multi-threading that DX10 or lower don't.
also a big reason to get DX11 is because Civ V supports it! So he has at least one game that takes advantage of DX11 and any new game he buys. but even if it didn't, it wouldn't be very logical to buy an older card none the less.
City Builder
Complicated Complication
Hmmm, I guess I didn't even know it then, I've got 3 DX10 games, the rest of the titles listed aren't something that I'd play.
I guess it's best to weigh out the cost of a DX10 vs a DX11 card, then see what titles are going to support it, and if those features that are used in the game for it, make any extra costs worthwhile.
In the one title that I thought was my only DX10 title I know that the differences in the game are so miniscule that unless one was actually looking for them they would never notice the difference, or rather they would never notice what they were missing. But as you said, if you're buying a new system buy the best that you can afford so that it lasts you as long as possible before needing an upgrade.
If it were me, and the cost difference between a DX10 or DX11 card were the difference between my getting something like the 955 cpu or the 1065 cpu (and I couldn't have both), I'd go for the cpu, but hey, everybody's preferences are different. Just get the best that you can afford so that it lasts you as long as possible before needing to update the system again.
I guess it's best to weigh out the cost of a DX10 vs a DX11 card, then see what titles are going to support it, and if those features that are used in the game for it, make any extra costs worthwhile.
In the one title that I thought was my only DX10 title I know that the differences in the game are so miniscule that unless one was actually looking for them they would never notice the difference, or rather they would never notice what they were missing. But as you said, if you're buying a new system buy the best that you can afford so that it lasts you as long as possible before needing an upgrade.
If it were me, and the cost difference between a DX10 or DX11 card were the difference between my getting something like the 955 cpu or the 1065 cpu (and I couldn't have both), I'd go for the cpu, but hey, everybody's preferences are different. Just get the best that you can afford so that it lasts you as long as possible before needing to update the system again.
MarkJohnson
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Actually, if your system is used for games, you upgradeable would be better spent on a better video card than cpu. Most games bottlenecks are from graphics especially on larger monitors.
GPUs are much more powerful than CPUs but CPUs are much more versatile than CPUs. with the push for multi-threading to take advantage of these multi-core processors, the more games can use the GPU cores for things other than graphics. My 5870 has 1600 stream processors and can take a large load off the CPU for certain tasks. Now that DX10.1 and newer now supports multi-threading, it should make for nicer programs to be developed. For examples of GPU intensive programming, look at nvidia's Physics games. That's just an extra dedicated video card help taking the load off the CPU so games can run smoother.
City Builder
Complicated Complication
Well, you see where I last came from was having a great video card and the bottleneck was at the CPU, now my system is pretty well matched but it sure was a bummer having spent hundreds of dollars on a great video card to only find out that my CPU was keeping me from seeing full fps.
But I also use my computer for much more than only gaming, so having a really good CPU is important to me, especially since I'm one of those people that will often have multiple programs open at the same time and skip through them constantly.
So what it all boils down to, is that you need to get what suits your use the best and get the best that you can afford now so that you won't have to update too soon into the future and don't let people convince you to start chasing your tail.
Especially don't let people tell you that your system sucks (although, it's certainly possible that your system sucks, especially if it's still got that crank on the side that you have to rotate every now and then to keep it powered up) and you need to upgrade this, that, and the other thing to get good FPS in a game that you play. I've been down this road before and I went out and spent over 350.00 on a video card just to prove my point of a game that we were playing back then and after doing so and getting all of 5 extra fps, then the same people came back to say, 'oh, well yeah, the code still needs to be optimized'.
Anyway, get what you like, opinions in computers are like fingers, everybodys got some.
But I also use my computer for much more than only gaming, so having a really good CPU is important to me, especially since I'm one of those people that will often have multiple programs open at the same time and skip through them constantly.
So what it all boils down to, is that you need to get what suits your use the best and get the best that you can afford now so that you won't have to update too soon into the future and don't let people convince you to start chasing your tail.
Especially don't let people tell you that your system sucks (although, it's certainly possible that your system sucks, especially if it's still got that crank on the side that you have to rotate every now and then to keep it powered up) and you need to upgrade this, that, and the other thing to get good FPS in a game that you play. I've been down this road before and I went out and spent over 350.00 on a video card just to prove my point of a game that we were playing back then and after doing so and getting all of 5 extra fps, then the same people came back to say, 'oh, well yeah, the code still needs to be optimized'.
Anyway, get what you like, opinions in computers are like fingers, everybodys got some.
MarkJohnson
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I definitely agree on the chasing your tail part. There's nothing worse than buying something you don't need. I can already tell that you wasted money on a video card if 5fps didn't help. You definitely had plenty of horsepower already. remember, your eyes see approximately 32fps, TV broadcast 28fps, and blu-ray, I read somewhere, displays 24 fps, and most monitors max out at 60fps. as you can see, you don't need very many fps to begin with.
General rule of thumb is buy a card that supports what the lowest fsp a game benchmark shows, not the average or max fps as fps drops under load. unfortunately, there are no benchmarks or even demos of the game to measure these things for Civ V.
as for CPU bottleneck, you have to hit a very high fps to achieve this, way more fps than usually needed. CPU bottlenecks should start going away as more multi-threaded apps appear. I think only older apps will give problems, and mainly because the more cores on the die means they have to run slower. so upgrading to a 6-core that is under 3ghz vs a dual core running at almost 4GHz will allow CPU bottlenecks. Civ 4 is a prime example. It is very CPU intensive from the AI and all their calculations. so people who upgrade their fast dual core to slow quad were seeing performance decrease and very upset on wasting their money. but for games, CPU bottlenecks are very rare and money is generally better spent on video upgrades instead.
We'll find out soon enough on how well Civ V runs. Looks like less than 24hrs now. woot!
General rule of thumb is buy a card that supports what the lowest fsp a game benchmark shows, not the average or max fps as fps drops under load. unfortunately, there are no benchmarks or even demos of the game to measure these things for Civ V.
as for CPU bottleneck, you have to hit a very high fps to achieve this, way more fps than usually needed. CPU bottlenecks should start going away as more multi-threaded apps appear. I think only older apps will give problems, and mainly because the more cores on the die means they have to run slower. so upgrading to a 6-core that is under 3ghz vs a dual core running at almost 4GHz will allow CPU bottlenecks. Civ 4 is a prime example. It is very CPU intensive from the AI and all their calculations. so people who upgrade their fast dual core to slow quad were seeing performance decrease and very upset on wasting their money. but for games, CPU bottlenecks are very rare and money is generally better spent on video upgrades instead.
We'll find out soon enough on how well Civ V runs. Looks like less than 24hrs now. woot!