Some Help Needed

[nolls]

2 days ago I discovered this forum and read through some of it, finding out Civilization 3 is game that is a lot more complicated then I thought it would be. When I recently played, I was getting mad that half my modern armor units were getting beaten by infantry. And knowing that modern armor's attack is 24 and infantry's defense is 10 really irritated me. Are there some land bonuses or city improvements that increase a military units defense or decrease their attack?

And can someone explain to me the basics of shields, food, and how to micromanage cities?

Last question, I always automated my workers and everything turned out fine (I play difficulty Warlord). I saw someone in another forum say that you should never automate your workers, why?

 

[Elephantium]

Don't just build Modern Armor, build Bombers and Stealth Bombers and Artillery/Radar Artillery to go with them. Big stacks of 10-20 of each. Before charging in with your armor, bombard with artillery until the defenders only have a single hit point left - then your Armor will win much more reliably.

Also, use the bombers to bomb the AI's sources of Rubber and Oil - that way, they'll be stuck building Guerillas instead of Infantry and Ironclads instead of Destroyers.

Shields, food, and micromanagement deserve an entirely separate post, so I won't go into that right now.

As for worker automation, the computer is dumb about setting priorities - it nearly always wastes a lot of worker turns moving workers back and forth instead of putting them to work on the *nearest* high-priority task at hand. With just a tiny bit of thought, you can easily outdo the AI's worker assignments. The same goes for using the city governor - you can get better results by fiddling with citizen assignments instead of just going with what the governor chooses.

 

[Jokeslayer]

When I recently played, I was getting mad that half my modern armor units were getting beaten by infantry. And knowing that modern armor's attack is 24 and infantry's defense is 10 really irritated me. Are there some land bonuses or city improvements that increase a military units defense or decrease their attack?

Combat works like this:

When you attack, the attack of your unit is compared to the defence of the enemy unit. For MA vs. inf, that would be 24 vs. 10 (unmodified defence, bear with me)

For each individual round, your MA wins 24 times and the inf wins 10 times (so you have about a 66% chance of winning). The loser of the round then loses a hitpoint and the whole thing begins again, until either one of you dies or the MA runs away.

The infantry will get some defensive bonuses. All terrain provides a defense bonus (Plains and Grassland are +10%, so the infantry would defend at 11, wetlands are +20%, jungles and forests are +50%, hills are +100%, mountains +200%). Cities (size 7-12) provide a +50% bonus, as do city walls in a town (size 1-6). I'm not sure if a metropolis (size 13 and up) would give any more bonuses. Attacking across a river gives the defender +25%. Being fortified also gives a +25% bonus, I think.

So if your MA (att. 24) attacks an inf (def 10) in a city (+5) that is on a hill (+10) on the other side of a river (+2.5) while the inf is fortified (+2.5), it's now 24 vs. 30 and you're a slight underdog in each round.

THe best way to combat this disadvantage is with artillery and bombers. Artillery includes cataputs, trebuchets etc. Weaken the defender as much as possible before you attack

(Note: I might be wrong about the percentages. That info is in the civilopedia. But I'm right in principle.)

Last question, I always automated my workers and everything turned out fine (I play difficulty Warlord). I saw someone in another forum say that you should never automate your workers, why?

The AI isn't very smart. One of it's big problems (for me, at least) is that it puts road and rails around one city before moving on and joining up the rest of your empire (which isn't generally what you want).

 

[MAS]

The city center always gives 1 shield per turn and 2 food per turn.
In addition, citizens working the land (not worker units) add extra food and shields to that.
A citizen working a grass tile will generate 2 food per turn. If you add a mine to that grass tile (with a worker) the citizen will generate 2 food per turn and 1 shield per turn.
in total, this size 1 city will now produce 4 food per turn and 2 shields per turn.

Each time you hit the next turn button, the 2 shields will be added to the construction box. If you are building a warrior (costs 10 shields) then after 5 turns, the construction box will be emptied and the warrior is completed.
At the same time, that one citizen will eat 2 food, leaving only 2 of the 4 food in surplus. This surplus food is added to the food box, and when the food box is filled, (should take 10 turns) a new citizen is born.
This new citizen will now work on an other tile.

Lets say it starts to work on a plains tile, plain tiles give 1 food and 1 shield. So now the total food the city generates per turn is 5 (2 from center, 2 from citizen#1 and 1 from Citizen#2) and the total shields per turn is 3. (1 from center, 1 from citizen#1 and 1 from Citizen#2)
Each citizen eats 2 food per turn, so now only 1 surplus food is left every turn, the city will now grow at half speed. To solve this, let your worker unit build an irrigation on the plains, OR, move the citizen to an other tile that produces more food. Unless, for some reason, you actually want the city to produce more shields at the cost of surplus food.

 

[nolls]

Wow, thanks. All of this has giving me a way better understanding of what this game is about. I used to always ignore shields, food, and I also thought that artillery/bombers were useless. That fighting calculator too was a big help.

I do have another question, what is the number one priority for a worker to build in the beginning? Roads connected cities, roads to luxuries/resources, mines/irrigation?

 

[vmxa]

The number one thing is to not waste worker turns. This means do not make them travel back and forth over the same tiles.

Then what to do is depending on the tiles. If you have a cow or wheat and water you probably want to irrigate first, then road. Excluding bonus tiles and resources, you want to road worked tiles and connecting tiles.

See crackers opening moves article for particulars.

 

[flyingkitty]

I just starting using this forum yesterday myself, but have been playing Civ3 for somewhere between 1 and 2 years...

Infantry, hmm...Well, they have a defense of 10. Here's some bonuses:
If they are on a Hill (+50%): +5 defense = 15
If they are on a Moutnain (+100%): +10 defense = 20
plus consider if they are fortified, that is another +5 added to the above. Considering the defense of the modern armour is not 24, it's understandable they will be destroyed at times. I recommend using artillery or bombers to bombard and weaken them first if you don't have an abundance of modern armour (which I would).

City improvements will also increase their defense, as well as other terrain, but hills and mountains are what you have to watch out for. I don't know if it makes any difference (I'm assuming it does), but I always attack from a hill or mountain if possible, to give my attacking unit a better defense

Shields, food etc...meh, I haven't really ever sat down and took notice of it. I will say this though, it helps a lot to have food bonuses. It would take a long post to explain everything about food here, but basically if you don't have more than 2 food per population member, the city won't grow. I recommend reducing the growth time by having irrigation on up to 4 grasslands (once you're out of despotism that is, or can irrigate a cow/wheat square).

As for shields, if you have 5 shields and 1 is red, you are only getting 4 production per turn. On accelerated production, you only need half as many shields as the building says it needs. (So 30 for a temple instead of 60).

Micromanaging cities....boooring...not my thing lol I think you do it by going to the city screen, then contact governor buttone, then selecting "manage production". I've NEVER used it though! In over a year!!

When you have enough workers (e.g. 72-86+ in the industrial/modern age), then you can perhaps automate some of them, but the last thing you want is for them to go and build a road on a mountain that isn't near a city, or cleaning up pollution from an active volcano, or even going to the edge of your territory when you're at war. You should learn to move more than 1 worker at a time by selecting the "move all units of this type" button on the main screen.

 

[gmaharriet]

On accelerated production, you only need half as many shields as the building says it needs. (So 30 for a temple instead of 60).

I would NOT recommend using "accelerated production". It unbalances the whole game and it was designed to be used in multi-player games (more than one human player).

 

[nolls]

View attachment 155604

Since now I have a better understanding of this game, I decided to move up to Regent and do everything manually (workers, micromanagement). I'm struggling in a new game I started. Can anyone give me some advice on what I should change? I'm going to post my game file here.

 

[Delphi456]

View attachment 155604

Since now I have a better understanding of this game, I decided to move up to Regent and do everything manually (workers, micromanagement). I'm struggling in a new game I started. Can anyone give me some advice on what I should change? I'm going to post my game file here.

1. Quit building spearmen. You should be building offensive units (bowmen), not defensive units. Kill that barb by the iron source, and settle a town there, hook up iron, and build swordmen. Next settler should grab incense by Kish. Eventually grab other incense in western area. After curragh is built, settle southern island to grab horses.

2. Turn your lux slider back to 0%. You are wasting money having it set at 10%.

3. During the early stages, clearing jungles is too time consuming for workers. Have them improve other tiles (like the wheat near capital).

4. You can trade Alphabet for Horseback Riding. Maybe other trades also.

5. Keep exploring east. This will improve trade options.

6. Need more workers. ~1.75 per town.

 

[nolls]

About workers, should I build roads early on, and connect with other civs to trade luxuries/resources? Also, if I irrigated wheat, would it be affected by the despotism penalty?

Offensive units... should I build catapults to go along with bowmen?

Another question, should I keep my science research high? Or should I keep it at 0% and wait for other civs to research them, then buy it off of them at the late part of the age and then slingshot ahead due to scientific civ bonus? Is there any other way to obtain techs, perhaps stealing them?

 

[Delphi456]

About workers, should I build roads early on, and connect with other civs to trade luxuries/resources? Also, if I irrigated wheat, would it be affected by the despotism penalty?

Yes, build roads on EVERY tile your worker touches - you don't want to waste a turn crossing that tile again. Then, either irrigate or mine that same tile.

Offensive units... should I build catapults to go along with bowmen?

Many people don't like cats, but I just played a game with them and they work great against spearmen in towns, and advancing enemy units. So yes, build about 6-8 of them.

Another question, should I keep my science research high? Or should I keep it at 0% and wait for other civs to research them, then buy it off of them at the late part of the age and then slingshot ahead due to scientific civ bonus? Is there any other way to obtain techs, perhaps stealing them?

Set science as high as you can go. On this level (and Monarch) you can outresearch and AI from the beginning. You can steal techs in a later era if you get the correct tech and build a certain building (never done it, but will be doing it in my newest Emperor game)

Oh, there's no use researching Monarchy because you want to be in Republic, and Monarchy is an optional tech. Begin researching something else, towards Republic.

 

[nolls]

Thank you for the advice. I am putting your tips in effect and I am not struggling anymore.

You said not to use the lux slider? One of my cities went into civil disorder due to unhappy citizens saying overpopulation. Should I use the lux slider or should I convert one to entertainer? (I've read that is a last resort)

There are no military units garrisoned on it at this time so is that the problem? Here's a SAV on it.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/119399/Babs-_Nolls-_550_BC.SAV

 

[Delphi456]

Thank you for the advice. I am putting your tips in effect and I am not struggling anymore.

You said not to use the lux slider? One of my cities went into civil disorder due to unhappy citizens saying overpopulation. Should I use the lux slider or should I convert one to entertainer? (I've read that is a last resort)

The .sav I downloaded showed everyone either happy or content - so no lux slider was needed. That's not to say you shouldn't use it, just use it when necessary. Use the lux slider as opposed to building temples, cathedrals and coluseums. You should always do an F1 check before ending your turn. This will tell you which towns are about to riot. I highly recommend using CivAssist II, if you aren't already.

 

[nolls]

Thanks for the advice, sorry about all of the questions I just want to make sure I don't do anything stupid.

I do have one more though, is it bad to have granaries and barracks in all of your cities? I don't really feel like building more military units, as they will be of no use to me later on that's why I am building marketplaces/barracks/granaries in the majority of my cities.

 

[Delphi456]

Thanks for the advice, sorry about all of the questions I just want to make sure I don't do anything stupid.

I do have one more though, is it bad to have granaries and barracks in all of your cities? I don't really feel like building more military units, as they will be of no use to me later on that's why I am building marketplaces/barracks/granaries in the majority of my cities.

You only need about 2 granaries - pick towns that have at least 3 extra food produced. Towns with irrigated wheat or cattle are best. One town will be a settler factory, the other town will be a worker factory.

Only need barracks in towns that produce fighting units. So don't build barracks in towns that will be worker/settler factories, and don't build barracks in towns that will produce catapults/tribuchets/cannons/artillery.

 

[flyingkitty]

The only time I usually build catapults is if I have no iron and have to rely on horsemen/archers+catapults. They're very handy for those times, because attacking a city with horsemen alone isn't a great idea unless they're elites.

I also like to place 2-4 cannons/artillery at the most vulnerable (ones at the corners or in islands) coastal cities later in the game. That way if they send an attack force by boat, you're ready for them, plus they can fire on ships passing by I especially love shooting them with a cannon/artillery and then bombing them with 1 or 2 bombers.

 

[Jokeslayer]

You said not to use the lux slider? One of my cities went into civil disorder due to unhappy citizens saying overpopulation. Should I use the lux slider or should I convert one to entertainer? (I've read that is a last resort)

If you have a size 4 city with 1 happy, 1 content and 2 unhappy, creating a scientist or taxman (sci. if your tech rate will increase, tax if it won't) is probably a better idea than creating an entertainer.

I agree with pretty much everything Delphi says, except this:

Oh, there's no use researching Monarchy because you want to be in Republic, and Monarchy is an optional tech. Begin researching something else, towards Republic.

and this

Yes, build roads on EVERY tile your worker touches - you don't want to waste a turn crossing that tile again. Then, either irrigate or mine that same tile.

1) You can research monarchy for a number of reasons. You'll get it before republic by a long way, and as a religious civ, won't get anarchy switching governments. You'll also be able to trade it to the AI for a lot of the techs you're missing. That and you might want to be a monarchy for MP/warmongering (it's not like republic is the only way to go) (That said, you might be taking too long to research it. I'm not sure)

2) I think linking everything up and improving key squares is more important than laying roads everywhere you go. Especially when you don't have enough workers as it is. Plan ahead, run the most direct roads to iron/incense/horses etc.

Re: catapults. Build them if you plan on waging war. They're immensely useful almost all the time. Think about it: your swordsman might be in a good position to kill a spearman, but he's in a much stronger position against a redlined spearman. (I'd rather have three swords than one sword and two cats, but I'd much rather have four swords and four cats than eight swords) They're less important for defence, but still nice to have around.

 

[MAS]

1) You can research monarchy for a number of reasons. You'll get it before republic by a long way,

Not if you set republic as your first research goal, thats what I usually do. Getting a shot at the free tech from philosophy at the same time.

and as a religious civ, won't get anarchy switching governments.

You do, at least 2 turns in conquest, and at at least 1 turn in vanilla, (except if you switch in the inter-turn, upon completing research of the gov tech, then its 0 turns in vanilla, but that can only be done at that moment.)

You'll also be able to trade it to the AI for a lot of the techs you're missing.

Thats what I usually do with republic, but I agree that if the trade situation warrants it, you may opt to research it for the sole purpose of having something to trade.

2) I think linking everything up and improving key squares is more important than laying roads everywhere you go. Especially when you don't have enough workers as it is. Plan ahead, run the most direct roads to iron/incense/horses etc.

I think what he is trying to say is that a worker should road every tile it comes across, not that you should road every tile blindly.
If you move-move-road, then, in order to road the tile in the future, you have to waste a turn moving again. SO move-road-move, then you will never again waste a turn moving over that same tile.

 

[Jokeslayer]

Not if you set republic as your first research goal, thats what I usually do. Getting a shot at the free tech from philosophy at the same time.

I meant this game specifically.

You do, at least 2 turns in conquest, and at at least 1 turn in vanilla, (except if you switch in the inter-turn, upon completing research of the gov tech, then its 0 turns in vanilla, but that can only be done at that moment.)

Well, that's something I didn't know.