Someone has to say it... Navy SEALs?

[HermeticHeretic]

Well back in the day when playing Civ3 I modded the F-15 to be an upgrade from the jet fighter(precision bombing ++strength) and made the Stealth Bomber the US' UU. It is the only weapon that the US has that no one else in the world has to compare with, IMO.

Good thing you can mod Civ4 too.

Now all I have to do is figure out how

 

[The Last Conformist]

uh ? such as ?

Pontus under Mithridates is the example that springs to mind.

 

[King Ash]

I may be misremembering, but doesn't the Phalanx graphics depict a Hellenistic phalangite rather than an Archaic/Classical hoplite?

A very good question, as classic Greek hoplites are different from Macedonian ones (which is probably considered "Hellenistic").
I suspect though civ is using the Hellenistic versions of the hoplite.

 

[King Ash]

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Are you talking of History or of Rome: Total War ? Hastati, Triarii and Principes were not roman "units" Btw, they were all legionaries. A legionary is a roman soldier part of a legion. A legion is a military formation.
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Up to my knowledge, a legion was composed by legionaries that has diferent roles on batle. Principes were the core of the roman legionaries for exaple, but they still were legionaries, being the main charcteristic that they were the first profesional army in the world, they have a pay and they obtained special benefits once they ended they service [the status of citizen]

Praetorians were just an elite group very close to the emperor more or less as they depict them in Gladiator the movie.

IIRC, those names mentioned above denoted the status of the particulair legionairy. It was based on age and time served in the legion. The more experienced troops were kept more in the back and were more heavily armoured and equiped, while younger legionairies used lighter weapons (javelins) and were more lightly armoured. They served more to the front.

Praetorians were formed very late in the history of the Roman republic, and officially they were the police force of Rome. Because of their status as bodyguards to the emperor, they were close to the succession of the emperors, and often being the decisive voice in who would succeed the last emperor.
But by all accounts, Praetorians shouldn't be in the game as an UU. Then again, it's just a game...

 

[Eigenvector]

What about CIA Agent, same as spy but far more capabilities to survive missions or obtain information.

More like far more cabable of screwing up the politics of third world countries and hosing their own country 20 years down the line. No thanks, I'd prefer an F-15 as the UU.

 

[FullyCompletely]

Who cares. Rename it USMC if it bothers you that much.

 

[puglover]

I think the minuteman would have been a good American UU. Could have just been a rifleman with a substantially reduced cost and a good city defence bonus. With Washington as a leader, it would have been a nice change for the focus of the American civ to move back to the revolution.

The Minuteman is just as hokey as the Navy SEAL. It's a common myth in America that the milita won the Revolution. That's utterly false. The Continental Army won the Revolution. George Washington was so furious with the milita's cowardice during a battle that he threw his hat to the ground and screamed, "Are these the men with whom I am to defend America?" It gets worse. During the War of 1812 at the Battle of Niagara (I think) the New York milita just sat and watched as the Continental Army got slaughtered by British troops on the opposite side of the Niagara River. They only fought in New York, so they wouldn't help their own countrymen.

Minutemen would not be a good UU, cool as they are. I'd suggest the M-1 Abrams Main Battle Tank or the GI.

 

[Panda]

Minute Men are not a good choice since we already got the Redcoat UU.

The M1 Abrams would come very late in the game, and it would be quite useless.

 

[Reprisal]

When I think of American military innovations, I think of three things: Mass Production, Carriers, and Air Power.

A big part of the reason the North won the Civil War because their armouries were more productive. The Sherman tank was not a great tank, by any stretch of the word, but the sheer numbers of them made up the difference. American industrial might should play into a hypothetical UU. I would doubt that it would be acceptable to create a UU based on the Union Soldier, though a tank unit that has the same statistics but is cheaper (10-20%?) might be just as good.

(Tangent: I think the Russians should have gotten the T-35/35 tank as their UU.)

Carriers. I've not used Carriers yet. I'm not sure what I'd do to make them "better." Perhaps they could carry more planes?

There's always Air Power. An upgraded Jet Fighter comes too late, but perhaps an upgraded Bomber or Chopper?

Another thing you could use might be that the Americans were instrumental in the development of the artillery procedures used today. I believe it was Korea that the US Army started to use radios for greater accuracy for artillery, but I'm not sure that they were the first... Perhaps an upgraded artillery unit?

*shrug*

I'm just stabbing into the darkness now,

- Rep.

 

[Chayton]

1) It's difficult giving the US an unique UU. I'd go for the Apache, F-15 or M1A1 Abrams myself.

The problem here is that the modern era just consist out of american units. Rifleman because of the blue obiviously represent the american rifle man of that time compared to the red coats, then comes the American WW2 soldier (at that time Germany had the most advanced military) then the american marine (maybe they gave him because of that heavily america look in that time no M16?), the mobile infantry looks like a Bradley. Then there is the Sherman Tank from WW2, and the M1 Abraham, the F-16, the B2 Bomber. The Sub i havent seen yet but i guess it also has a more american look, while Russia was in the cold war ahead in Subs. So what else would you want to choose there? From all the diffrent types of units they choosed american weapons to be displayed. So there is hardly a point in replacing the F-16 with the F-15 for example. They had could choose the Tornado as general jet fighter, then make the F-15 or F-22 as unique american unit. There i am a bit dissapointed in Civ4.
So there basicly was only anymore Navy Seals left, which arent even the top in their class type.

Edit:
As for Artillery, back at that time one of the best Artillery was made in austria, there was a huge scandal about that because we sold our artillery (you could/can hit precise with it on 30km) to Iraq (and Iran?) and we arent allowed to because of our neutral contract, went so far that our Minister of Defence killed himself.

 

[Demon Rob]

Why do people keep suggesting airpower? Air and sea ARE NOT UUs in Civ4.
Combined arms makes the most sense, make it a mechanised infantry with suitable initial promotions representing the support and training. But dont stuff up the balance.
Legion over Praetorian is obvious. Yes there were other nations legion copies but Legions are associated with Rome. Same with Phalanx, though Hoplite is technically more correct.
Just a note on the phalanx - why the hills bonus? Phalanx needs flat ground. Are they trying to incorporate a certain spartan defencive action here?
Cossacks is a good russian one, even with its non-fully-russionistic history.

 

[Reveilled]

The Minuteman is just as hokey as the Navy SEAL. It's a common myth in America that the milita won the Revolution. That's utterly false. The Continental Army won the Revolution. George Washington was so furious with the milita's cowardice during a battle that he threw his hat to the ground and screamed, "Are these the men with whom I am to defend America?" It gets worse. During the War of 1812 at the Battle of Niagara (I think) the New York milita just sat and watched as the Continental Army got slaughtered by British troops on the opposite side of the Niagara River. They only fought in New York, so they wouldn't help their own countrymen.

Minutemen would not be a good UU, cool as they are. I'd suggest the M-1 Abrams Main Battle Tank or the GI.

What about a Continental Cavalry UU, then?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Actually, the blue-white riflemen with shakos look perfectly European. The CivIII one looked much more American.

 

[King Ash]

If anything, America has acceled through most of her history at one constant factor: mass production.
But how do you translate that to an UU? An UU which is actually usable in a game.
Currently America is a lead player in technology combined with air superiority. People can't even begin to imagine America going to war without sufficient air cover. This is why I think the F-15 should be the American UU. Or give them (as the only ones) Tomahawk missles or something.

 

[Dominico]

America should have a few special units in the modern era. Planes and tanks as they have good equipment.

But this should be balanced out by massive war weariness penalties, because America cant fight prolonged wars. The American public has never wanted to be involved in any wars other then a defensive war (even ww2 took the declaration of Hitler himself against America to get full involvement). Also this can be seen in all modern wars which America has fought in and usualy come out second place due to public opinion. This would also make playing America fun, as you would have to try to satisfy the populace or keep wars short and sharp.

Also i think Great Britain should get A special Carrier since they designed the first specialised carrier (ark royal) and also special Air power (propellor age) since they had the best tech in WW2. Also all GB troops should get automatically promoted first level as they are the best trained in the world.

Having a few special units for each nation would be a great idea i think now that someone has suggested it.

Also Germany could have good subs to go with their WW2 tanks.

Wow, when i figure out how to mod i will give it a go!

 

[Pragmatic]

The Minutemen - besides being more myth than reality - were not any kind of standard fighting unit, but more like "unpaid reservests". They were no better - and often worse - equipped than the redcoats.

While I (and, apparently, George Washington) agree with you regarding the general uselessness of "citizen soldiers" versus "professional soldiers," I believe the "Minuteman" being referred to was the mobile ICBM that travelled around the U.S. during the Cold War as a deterrent against Soviet first strikes.

That's the trouble with reusing names.

 

[djenghis]

i think Navy SEALS are an excellent choice as UU. In Vietnam, Navy SEALS cleared the beaches from most VC so that the marines wouldn't have such a very high kill rate when taking in the beach. So, Navy SEALS as a replacement for marines in the game is i think a good decision.

Let's not forget that Navy SEALS killed 10.000 VC in Vietnam, and suffered only about 50 losses. Those we're most often just because of misinformation or silly accidents. They certainly have proven their value to the US Military.

 

[onedreamer]

Pontus under Mithridates is the example that springs to mind.

It springs to my mind that Pontus was being beaten badly by the roman legions and may have attempted to copy something from them in order to try and stop the roman invasion of Pontus... how successful have they been , considering that Pontus was one of the provinces of the Roman Empire ?

 

[Mmmm Butter]

A side note on the panzers... what a useless unit! the AI never uses tanks defensively that i've seen (pre-patch) so its bonus against armoured is pointless. If they land on your island with tanks sure you've got a good defender but panzers weren't used as defenders in a historical sense.

Oh another side note, why do SAM infantry shoot at gunships with their SMG's, instead of their stingers?

Sorry, travelling back in posts here, I just thought that while the subject of proposed changes to UU's was going on, this was a good point. The Panzers' historical significance is that it spearheaded the blitzkreig in WWII, and the fact that Germany was able to conquer so much territory so quickly was of course the reason for their overwhelming success through the start of that war. Since all tanks start with a "blitz" promotion, the obvious choice for a different upgrade is out. Maybe only the Panzers should start with a blitz promotion, and all tanks start with a promotion against gunpowder units? Not sure if they already have one, can't recall. Oh, and I'm not complaining here one bit about anything, mind you, I love the game.

And good call on the SAM infantry, I was wondering the same thing.



Oh, and my 2 cents: I like the gunship idea for the American UU, if it was to be anything different. Air superiority is definitely something that'd be associated w/ the US military during times of power, and since there aren't any other actual flight UU's in the game, the gunship upgrade could work since they work as land units.

 

[The Last Conformist]

It springs to my mind that Pontus was being beaten badly by the roman legions and may have attempted to copy something from them in order to try and stop the roman invasion of Pontus... how successful have they been , considering that Pontus was one of the provinces of the Roman Empire ?

I didn't say they were successful. In fact, they only held out as long as they did because they had a knack for bribing Roman generals. But they did try and train their army in the Roman style.