I was thinking about playing a game as Spain, and then I was looking at their UB. The building becomes obsolete at Economics, sans the defense bonus. Does that mean new siege equipment does not receive the bonus experience points, or will future post-Economics siege equipment still receive the 2 free XP?
Spanish UB Question
- Thread starter Antilogic
- Start date
Well, since nobody else posted, I started a game, cheated with the World Builder to give my starting city a citadel, and gave myself Economics and Construction. Then, I started on a catapult. When the catapult was finished, I did not receive any experience points--it was a completley green unit. Therefore, I am forced to conclude that the experience point bonus goes obsolete as well at Economics.
Personally, this strikes me as a design flaw. I realize that many people here think Isabella's traits are not too strong (and personally I would rather have a number of different combinations), and the UU strikes me as quite useful: a knight with +50% vs. melee (pikes won't be able to take this sucker easily) and it receives defense bonuses? That's a pretty awesome UU!
But the incredibly limited focus of the UB...I don't know. Maybe mass-producing whatever siege units you have now and upgrading them is the best course of action--you are be able to squeeze 3 promotions out with civics (+4), barracks (+3), citadel (+2), and a GG (+2). Sure, you lose 1 XP in the upgrade to stuff like cannons and artillery, but at least you have the 3 initial promotions.
Personally, this strikes me as a design flaw. I realize that many people here think Isabella's traits are not too strong (and personally I would rather have a number of different combinations), and the UU strikes me as quite useful: a knight with +50% vs. melee (pikes won't be able to take this sucker easily) and it receives defense bonuses? That's a pretty awesome UU!
But the incredibly limited focus of the UB...I don't know. Maybe mass-producing whatever siege units you have now and upgrading them is the best course of action--you are be able to squeeze 3 promotions out with civics (+4), barracks (+3), citadel (+2), and a GG (+2). Sure, you lose 1 XP in the upgrade to stuff like cannons and artillery, but at least you have the 3 initial promotions.
The conquistador is a superb unit, however it normally has a short life.
I find it strange that the seige experience bonus becomes obsolete, I didn't think it did.
The Citadel is a poor UB for single player but is pretty useful in MP.
I find it strange that the seige experience bonus becomes obsolete, I didn't think it did.
The Citadel is a poor UB for single player but is pretty useful in MP.
Why poor in single player?
Having an extra city raider on all my artillery units? That's a pretty awesome UB! Or how about Accuracy to bombard cities down quicker. Or multiple Barrage promotions...just think of all the possibilities.
Too bad, I would say, the Spanish UB is as short lived or even more so as the Spanish UU. I can see the advent of Grenadiers being a reason why they would become obsolete, but the AI typically has many obsolete units running around as well. I suppose they could fit a secondary role until the advent of riflemen.
Having an extra city raider on all my artillery units? That's a pretty awesome UB! Or how about Accuracy to bombard cities down quicker. Or multiple Barrage promotions...just think of all the possibilities.
Too bad, I would say, the Spanish UB is as short lived or even more so as the Spanish UU. I can see the advent of Grenadiers being a reason why they would become obsolete, but the AI typically has many obsolete units running around as well. I suppose they could fit a secondary role until the advent of riflemen.
I think the Spanish would be more competitive overall if their UB did not expire (does any other UB expire in the game?). Sure, the trade routes still go away, but the defense bonus and extra 2 XP would stay for the rest of the game. I think that's a fair adjustment, but I don't have the programming skills to do that...
Chamaedrys
Emperor
I never build castles. They are too late and have no real. The Citadel looks better but it isn't better:
barracks + theocracy = 5XP = 2 Promotions
barracks + theocracy + citadel = 7XP = 2 Promotions
and even:
barracks + theocracy + vassalage + citadel = 9XP = 2 Promotions
btw: Isn't the effect of the citadel weired? The pedia says the citadel represent the forts in the colonies. But why should these stronghold improve siege weapons?? A trade bonus would be more realistic.
barracks + theocracy = 5XP = 2 Promotions
barracks + theocracy + citadel = 7XP = 2 Promotions
and even:
barracks + theocracy + vassalage + citadel = 9XP = 2 Promotions
btw: Isn't the effect of the citadel weired? The pedia says the citadel represent the forts in the colonies. But why should these stronghold improve siege weapons?? A trade bonus would be more realistic.
Well, it does give you a bombardment resistance bonus as well that you neglected to mention. That would mesh with the civilopedia description quite nicely...
Although I think it is the most wierd because it is the only unique building that I know of that goes obsolete. I think that's poor design.
Although I think it is the most wierd because it is the only unique building that I know of that goes obsolete. I think that's poor design.
AfterShafter
Deity
CivDude86 said:
In the case of the obelisk, I don't mind it going obsolete because it gives you such an early game prophet power play - sort of the tradeoff for its short lifespan. The dun? Meh, I can't even remember what that thing does off the top of my head, so I won't comment...
Does the dun no longer provide the guerilla bonus? I thought it did all the way to the end of the game--the defense bonus just doesn't work against gunpowder units, I didn't think it went obsolete.
As for the obelisk...well, I forgot about that one! Come on, though!
As for the obelisk...well, I forgot about that one! Come on, though!
TheDS
Regular Riot
I think the Ger goes away (Mongol Stable) as well. Probably others.
I was wondering if anyone even bothers to build walls and castles; I could probably count the number of them I've built in all my dozens (hundreds?) of games since Civ1 came out without taking off my shoes, and the cultural defense seems to make them even more pointless. I don't think I'd build a castle unless it was part of a quest (a new feature of BtS, which just came out recently, while this thread was dormant).
I was wondering if anyone even bothers to build walls and castles; I could probably count the number of them I've built in all my dozens (hundreds?) of games since Civ1 came out without taking off my shoes, and the cultural defense seems to make them even more pointless. I don't think I'd build a castle unless it was part of a quest (a new feature of BtS, which just came out recently, while this thread was dormant).
BeefontheBone
Windbag of the sea
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 2,018
Does removing ones shoes improving counting? Wow. 
Peter Harris
Warlord
Does removing ones shoes improving counting? Wow.
You run out of fingers. Just don't count to 21 in public.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
it sure would be. but conqs don't replace knights now. they replace cuirassiers (or however you spell the gunpowder/mil trad required unit between knights and cavs).
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
You run out of fingers. Just don't count to 21 in public.
Wai not?
Yeah, so the UU isn't naything special, their enemies will be muskets and rifles (goodnight, Conqs!), and their UB are terrible. I don't remember their traits, but they're spi/imp or something liek that?
Anyway, I don't find the spanish civ too attracting even if it's the civ I won my best conquest game with... Duel against one Ai that got beaten by barbs... What a lamer, and it's in top spot in my highscore...
King Flevance
Deity
Spi/Exp still I believe. My mom plays Issy alot. We have a current team hotseat game going where I am Japan and she is Spain. I have been looking over her civ and helping her out with her warfare tactics and seriously spain got nuetured when all they really had was a kick *** UU. Their traits arent all that great, their UU now is no big deal, and I was recently wondering if it was worth her building any of her UB. But from what I am seeing, it really isn't.
I agree with Antilogic that the trade route should dissappear as that can instantly grant spain alot of power, but I don't think the xp and bombard resistance should go away.
I agree with Antilogic that the trade route should dissappear as that can instantly grant spain alot of power, but I don't think the xp and bombard resistance should go away.
TheDS
Regular Riot
The Carthaginian Cothon grants a bonus trade route, and while I can't atm recall what it replaces, I don't think it goes away. (Hannibal is also Financial - Carthage should be really rich then.) It probably costs less and lasts longer than the Citadel too, so one extra trade route you have to spend a lot of hamemrs to build isn't that big of a deal.
I think the real issue is the apparent uselessness of the Castle. I don't hole up in my cities; I have minimal defenses (maybe 1 archer with city defense) and the rest of my army musters near potential trouble spots. Saves me a ton of cash and build time (yet somehow the AI always manages to outbuild me) which I put to use improving my production. If I get attacked, my mobile forces harrass and delay the enemy while my cities crank out units. I may lose a city or two if my border forces get overwhelmed, but in the end, I'll push back with a hoard and get those cities back, and I don't want my own walls hampering my liberation attempts. (And the castle will get destroyed since it produces culture.)
I did build a Castle once when I needed to have every possible culture point in a city, and I could see building the occasional Wall if I have Stone and am Protective, or I'm building the Dun (or whatever the UB Wall is) if it has useful bonii, but 99% of the time, Walls are only useful on border cities, and my border cities tend to either be new and needing to build other things first, or on the water, where my navy protects them from all but surprise (and usually lame) naval attacks. (I don't know if I'm just that good of a builder or if the AI just sucks at it, but I've never faced a credible naval threat in all my games. Haven't played a human to find out how much I REALLY suck at this game.
)
I think the real issue is the apparent uselessness of the Castle. I don't hole up in my cities; I have minimal defenses (maybe 1 archer with city defense) and the rest of my army musters near potential trouble spots. Saves me a ton of cash and build time (yet somehow the AI always manages to outbuild me) which I put to use improving my production. If I get attacked, my mobile forces harrass and delay the enemy while my cities crank out units. I may lose a city or two if my border forces get overwhelmed, but in the end, I'll push back with a hoard and get those cities back, and I don't want my own walls hampering my liberation attempts. (And the castle will get destroyed since it produces culture.)
I did build a Castle once when I needed to have every possible culture point in a city, and I could see building the occasional Wall if I have Stone and am Protective, or I'm building the Dun (or whatever the UB Wall is) if it has useful bonii, but 99% of the time, Walls are only useful on border cities, and my border cities tend to either be new and needing to build other things first, or on the water, where my navy protects them from all but surprise (and usually lame) naval attacks. (I don't know if I'm just that good of a builder or if the AI just sucks at it, but I've never faced a credible naval threat in all my games. Haven't played a human to find out how much I REALLY suck at this game.
)Similar threads
