Spearman can take out a tank

[Alzadar]

My favorite is the era-dependent strength of ALL embarked units (hadn't been corrected up to the version that I'm currently playing, which is out-of-the-box G&K):

It was late game, the majority of my military units had things to be doing, and a nearby offshore barb encampment kept irritating me with galleys and triremes. The most sensible method of defeating them, since my tiles were pretty much all improved, was to embark my WORKERS. So naval units, designed to pick off embarked land units w/o an escort, weren't just countered by unescorted embarked units, they were defeated by NON-MILITARY, unescorted land units.

"If you keep sending your cats, we'll be forced to sick our mice on 'em!"

I think it was in Vanilla where embarked units were instantly destroyed by naval units, they must have changed it because the AI was particularly bad at tactical movement of embarked units; a single Trireme could 15 Riflemen and they would just keep sending them.

 

[b7fanatix]

On Vanilla i lost a Giant Death Robot to a swarm of WWII fighters. Each doing 1hp damage, 10 of them destroys your robot, and quite easy to get that many on you when you march out of your own fighter cover, given how the AI likes to pack cities together.

 

[Socratatus]

The stereotype that tanks are immortal machines is typical of people who never did military duty... tanks have so many flaws and weaknesses that you'll want to go back to infantry ASAP.
Especially if the fight takes place on mountains/hills.

Or in dense urban areas/thick woods.

actually, i think that the finns destroyed a few soviet tanks in WWII with long spear-like logs

Yep. In WW2 some tanks were defeated by desperate Russians with molotov cocktails, etc, etc. There`s a reason why tanks almost NEVER go anywhere without a TROOP escort.

Once a soldier gets over the initial fear of a tank, he realises that :

1. Tanks are blind when `buttoned` up. If the guy pops his head out- spear it!
2. Tank tracks can be easily fouled up, making them sitting ducks.
3. They`re really restricted in closed environments.

So all you need are a few brave men willing to attack the thing from all sides, until it`s immobile. they don`t even really need to kill the crew, once the tank is stopped and you block the main gun and mg from any real freedom of movement, it won`t be able to do much of anything. A tank doing nothing is as good as a tank kill.

A tank crew would do better to get out and fight with pistols!

 

[themerchant8]

Tanks need fuel to fight. A tank is basically dead without fuel to power it and generate it's electricity.

An army of spearman can beat a tank if a prideful commander overestimates his opposition and tells his tanks to do nothing/hold position for days/weeks on end instead of falling back for refueling.

No fuel/power? No airconditioning, you'll be slowly cooked to death when your tank is set on fire.

No camera? You won't be able to see outside the tank without actually opening up a viewport or popping your head out. Headstab.

You can't really move your turret by hand unless it's a really old tank, and you won't be able to do it fast either.

 

[black213]

actually, i think that the finns destroyed a few soviet tanks in WWII with long spear-like logs

I'm finnish and what I've heard is that we destroyed tanks with molotov cocktails, not with any spears... heh

 

[CountAccountant]

Oh man, this brings back memories. Remember Civ 1? When the one of the *most effective* war strategies was to send hordes of phalanxes (spearmen) riding trains to take out the enemies tanks and cities?

Good times.

 

[Rusty Edge]

actually, i think that the finns destroyed a few soviet tanks in WWII with long spear-like logs

They learned that trick from the Ewoks, long ago in a galaxy far, far, away.

 

[TyBoy]

I'm thinking big rocks would be your key anti-tank technology. Just stick them anywhere they'll fit and before long you'll cause some serious problems.

 

[Fish Man]

Let's assume the worst possible case for the tank and best for spearman (both are at full health).

Tank (70 )
-50% strat resource penalty
-33% very unhappy
-20% attacking accross river

Spearman (11 )
+30% GG bonus (China)
+170% terrain bonus (citadel+hill+promotions)
+15% adjacent unit
+75% flanking bonus
+40% fortification bonus

So...70 x 0.5 x 0.66 x 0.8 = 18.48 for the tank
And...11 x 1.3 x 2.7 x 1.15 x 1.75 x 1.4 = 108.78 for the SPEARMAN!

With these calculations, it can be said for certain that given the optimal conditions, a spearman at full health can defend and kill a tank at full health EASILY.

 

[Callonia]

Let's assume the worst possible case for the tank and best for spearman (both are at full health).

Tank (70 )
-50% strat resource penalty
-33% very unhappy
-20% attacking accross river

Spearman (11 )
+30% GG bonus (China)
+170% terrain bonus (citadel+hill+promotions)
+15% adjacent unit
+75% flanking bonus
+40% fortification bonus

So...70 x 0.5 x 0.66 x 0.8 = 18.48 for the tank
And...11 x 1.3 x 2.7 x 1.15 x 1.75 x 1.4 = 108.78 for the SPEARMAN!

With these calculations, it can be said for certain that given the optimal conditions, a spearman at full health can defend and kill a tank at full health EASILY.

Forget the penalties, an 70 str tank will have trouble with 108 str spearman. xD

 

[FstrthnU]

The calculation is wrong unfortunately, the percentages are based off the original 11 and aren't consecutively multiplied. So the actual strength is 4.3*11, or 47.3. The tank would only have 4.9 strength lol

 

[otaman1]

I'm thinking big rocks would be your key anti-tank technology. Just stick them anywhere they'll fit and before long you'll cause some serious problems.

Nope. Rubbish.

 

[FrostK]

Spearman is 7, so:
+60% from terrain
+15% from general
+20% from Ethiopia
+15% fom Himeji castle
+15% Hero epic
+20% From religion
+10% Flanking bonus
+10% for friendly unit near by (Honor)
+25% for wounded unit (99hp, Autocracy)
+20% from closing Autocracy
+10% from hills (Kilimanjaro)

Mb forgot smth, mb smth not exact but still + 220%, so result strength is 22. Tank is 50.
Well seems like 6 spearmans can kill tank in 1 turn. (They can all have double strike)

 

[Fish Man]

Spearman is 7, so:
+60% from terrain
+15% from general
+20% from Ethiopia
+15% fom Himeji castle
+15% Hero epic
+20% From religion
+10% Flanking bonus
+10% for friendly unit near by (Honor)
+25% for wounded unit (99hp, Autocracy)
+20% from closing Autocracy
+10% from hills (Kilimanjaro)

Mb forgot smth, mb smth not exact but still + 220%, so result strength is 22. Tank is 50.
Well seems like 6 spearmans can kill tank in 1 turn. (They can all have double strike)

If you're talking vanilla, well duh. 10 units of any kind can kill an enemy unit of any kind, since one attack is guaranteed to do 1/10 damage. So your calculations don't matter since 5 archers with no bonuses and double strike can kill a GDR in one turn, all without taking damage.

 

[MerchantCo]

Spearmen could take out a tank in real life.

 

[Njegos]

Well one tank can smash and run over most of the army, and still have fuel to get away to safety and refuel... still in civ, tank unit are translated as army of tanks, that means bunch of em, not like 1 tank vs horde of spears... Humans are not zombies, they dont keep attacking when they see that they die in hundreads, they fear, which is tottaly normal...
So its highly unlikable... it could be possible with first generation tanks, nowdays machines are to damn powerfull...

 

[Louis XXIV]

Oh man, this brings back memories. Remember Civ 1? When the one of the *most effective* war strategies was to send hordes of phalanxes (spearmen) riding trains to take out the enemies tanks and cities?

Good times.

Let's keep in mind that the biggest complaint in Civ1 (per the Civ2 manual) was a Phalanx taking out a Battleship, not a tank. At least they've solved that

 

[DarthSheldonPhD]

Let's keep in mind that the biggest complaint in Civ1 (per the Civ2 manual) was a Phalanx taking out a Battleship, not a tank. At least they've solved that

IIRC, the quintessential example was settler vs. battleship, not phalanx vs, battleship

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, the Civ2 manual said Phalanx (almost positive about that because it was specifically a Veteran Phalanx). However, I entirely forgot that settlers could defend themselves. You are correct that this was a theoretical possibility too.

 

[ilik]

You kill one tank, you sacrificed 25 spearmen, then, comically, another one comes LOL.