speeding up forbidden palace

[fiendney]

i've been having a big trouble building the forbidden palace.

i whole point of building the F.palace is to act as a as capital, which eliminates corruption and waste in a city far away from the capital.

to maximize the effectiveness of the F.palace, it should be built in a productive city as far away as possible. but that's the whole problem.

the farther away you go, the more corrupt the city is. the city that's building the F.palace in this game i'm playing is just producing 2 shields/turn, i mean 2 shld not wasted per turn. sometimes, the highest i can go is just 3 shld/turn. that way, i can't get the F.palace well beyond the 1300's.

i know the quickest way is to use a Great Leader to hurry the production. But what IF (let's just say) that the wars i've gone through did not get me any Leaders at all. then How can i speed up the F.palace???

i've tried the courthouse, "we love the King day", different forms of government, but the effects seem to wear off over time. (example, after finishing the courthouse, it was 3 sh/turn, say 20 rounds after, it went back to 2 or even 1 shld/turn).

is there any way to build the forbidden palace quicker?? any advice would be helpful.

 

[satchel]

I have the same problem, and I usually just suck it up and build the Forbidden Palace too slowly. (I almost never have great leaders.) But there are several things you can do.

One strategy that I am going to try in my present game (first time on Monarch for me) is to go to war relatively early, in my case, right after the land-grab phase is over, and try to get some leaders. I'm going to use my first leader to build an army, build the Military Academy, and try to get more leaders, one of which will rush the FP.

Barring that, if you are willing to move your capital, you can "creep" your palace over to a new location a few cities at a time. I've never tried this but I bet it could work pretty well with a non-archipelago civ. Here's the idea:

1. Decide where you'd want your FP; that city will eventually become your new capital.
2. Build the FP in a city near your original capital, so you can complete it relatively quickly.
3. Now build a new palace in a city near the FP.
4. When it's complete, build another palace in another city near the new palace, and repeat, working your way toward the location you want.

This way, you don't have to wait for the increased production of having both a palace and a FP at the same time. The only disadvantage is you lose the culture benefits of having the ancient palace, but that seems like a small price to pay for the production benefit.

 

[SirJethro]

Sometimes patience is key in building the FP. You don't always have to build it too early...you may want to expand a little more to get it further away from your capital. And I always start building it at the outer edge of my empire with the expectation that I will expand out around it.

I've found that WLTKD makes a huge difference in my "outer rim territories". It you have a courthouse and WLTKD, just keep it there and be patient...or rush it w/ a leader if it makes sense. If you are in a position where you can finish the palace in less than 20-30 turns....you may be building it too close to your palace to maximize the benefit.

 

[Sullla]

Let me turn around and contradict what SirJethro just said.

A lot of players seem to think that the Forbidden Palace has to be a long way away from the capital in order to get any value from it. While having a second core of uncorrupted cities a good distance away from the palace is not to be underestimated, I've noticed that many people simply try to build the FP too far away. It's the classic argument between putting the FP in a "perfect spot" versus a "good spot." If I can have the FP built in a good spot (about 2 city lengths away from my capital) in 500AD or a perfect spot 3 1/2 city lengths away in 1200AD, I'm going to go for the closer spot every single time. Generally speaking, the earlier you build the FP the better, since building it actually reduces corruption in ALL of your cities based on the optimal city number. If I can't get at least 5 shields/turn from a city (to build the FP in 40 turns) then the location is too far away; I would be better off putting it closer and reaping more turns of benefit from the FP. Naturally a leader can allow you to get past this, which is part of what makes them so valuable. A good FP location is important to consider, but also don't make the mistake of trying to build the thing in a location where it will never get done in time to make a significant impact on the game.

 

[fiendney]

to satchel:

i think your method of "creep"ing the palace a few cities at a time is quite clever. it makes alot of sense in my mind, it seems to be very effective,
i'll have to try the method to really see how much it helps.

and i also have had a lot of patience, i didn't get my F.palace until the 1600s! sometimes i just think that i've wasted hundreds of years. maybe that's the way it should be.

but i'll definitely try the moving palace method.

thanx

 

[SirJethro]

Originally posted by Sullla
Let me turn around and contradict what SirJethro just said.

A lot of players seem to think that the Forbidden Palace has to be a long way away from the capital in order to get any value from it. While having a second core of uncorrupted cities a good distance away from the palace is not to be underestimated, I've noticed that many people simply try to build the FP too far away. It's the classic argument between putting the FP in a "perfect spot" versus a "good spot." If I can have the FP built in a good spot (about 2 city lengths away from my capital) in 500AD or a perfect spot 3 1/2 city lengths away in 1200AD, I'm going to go for the closer spot every single time. Generally speaking, the earlier you build the FP the better, since building it actually reduces corruption in ALL of your cities based on the optimal city number. If I can't get at least 5 shields/turn from a city (to build the FP in 40 turns) then the location is too far away; I would be better off putting it closer and reaping more turns of benefit from the FP. Naturally a leader can allow you to get past this, which is part of what makes them so valuable. A good FP location is important to consider, but also don't make the mistake of trying to build the thing in a location where it will never get done in time to make a significant impact on the game.

I don't disagree with you...and I've played both ways successfully. I've personally gotten more pleasure out of empires where my P and FP were more spaced because it gave me an overall larger cicle of influence against corruption.

I basically have one "unbreakable" rule regarding the FP: ALWAYS get the FP before your Golden Age. Otherwise I feel like the GA is somewhat wasted. Agree that placement is important but not critical.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

One more thing about Palaces and Forbidden Palaces. It is pretty rare that your capitol is built in the best spot to fight corruption. So, sometimes I build the FP in a spot that would have been the best spot for the palace but close enough to the palace so that it is built fairly quickly. Then, later I either rush, construct or move my palace to a good second location.

 

[Hades]

One way to do it is to build your forbidden palace in a good location near your palace at its own pace, then move to palace later when you have a leader.

 

[Scyphax]

I found the key is to start building the FP before you have to many cities.
I decide on the location of my FP while my empire is still quite small, usually at a location with plenty of shield potential at the current edge of my empire towards the centre of the continent. This city recieves prioritory road connections and improvements.
Workers are used to increase the population, a temple is built using either the whip or cash and before the FP is available I start to build something large which I swap to the FP.
Certain civilizations tend to trigger the Golden Age early, these civilizations in particular should start the FP early to take advantage of the Golden Age

 

[God3345]

my favorite way is to build the fp as soon as possible , i like to get all the $$$ i can, right next to your capitol in a good position to keep all of your 'core' cites close, then i creep my palace to my front lines a city or two at a time ( instead of haveing it take 100 turns to build in some small corrupt city i build it 2-3 times at around 20 turns each

 

[gugalpm]

I do the following:
When I want to build the forbidden palace, I build it in my capital, then the palace can be transferred to any place I want later...

 

[satchel]

Originally posted by gugalpm
I do the following:
When I want to build the forbidden palace, I build it in my capital, then the palace can be transferred to any place I want later...

You can't build a Forbidden Palace in your capital. Do you mean that you build it in an adjacent city?

 

[wysiwygger]

why cant you build the forbidden palace in your city with the palace, but you can build the palace in the city with the forbidden palace???????????????????????

 

[Theseus]

Actually, it's pretty important to build your FP to benefit your core cities, and build your Palace further away.

In addition to the reasons stated above (all of which are very good), the Palace plays a key role in culture flipping, in both directions. Also, the FP costs 200 shields, and the Palace only 100...

That cheap, you can even move the Palace several times (and don;t forget, once built the FP cannot be moved).

Over at Apolyton, it has become more or less accepted doctrine to use the FP and Palace this way.

[Edit: Actually, a familiar face here at CFC really developed this concept the most... Catt!!]

 

[Scyphax]

I don't like moving my palace because after 1000 years in one spot it generates lots of culture.
I have had cities flip to me that were not overlapped by my cultural borders and I believe it was my overall culture that did it.
I have found if a CIV is awed by your culture it is much less likely to attack you.

 

[Bretwalda]

Originally posted by Theseus
...
Also, the FP costs 200 shields, and the Palace only 100...

That cheap, you can even move the Palace several times (and don;t forget, once built the FP cannot be moved).

....

Actually I think the cost of the Palace is dependant on the number of cities you have: the more cities you have, the more shields it costs. Btw., does anyone know the formulae for that?

 

[satchel]

Originally posted by wysiwygger
why cant you build the forbidden palace in your city with the palace, but you can build the palace in the city with the forbidden palace???????????????????????

I don't think you can. I'm not sure - I don't have the game on the computer I use at work, so I can't check - but I remember being annoyed in a recent game that I couldn't do wonder prebuilds in the city with the FP because the palace wasn't available.

 

[billindenver]

Someone was building lots of cities early on, and his capital was on one end of a long thin continent. Instead of building the FP, he abandoned his capital city, and the palace was automatically rebuilt in his next city, which was better situated geographically. He then rebuilt a city on the site of his former capital.

You would lose the culture, but I thought that was an interesting idea.

 

[satchel]

That is a good idea, billindenver, except you'd have to do it really early in the game - when your capital is small and you haven't built any wonders in it yet - or it would be too costly. I read that thread too - and I liked the idea but I haven't had my act together to try it in a game.

 

[Theseus]

Bretwalda, I'm pretty sure the cost of the Palace is fixed.