Stack units attackin all at once?

fwfessly

Chieftain
Joined
May 11, 2004
Messages
41
I was wondering whether when all units were grouped together that they would attack all at the same time, instead of all the other civ games where it was always 1vs1?
 
if they attack all at once then that would not be fair for a defender so i think not because firaxis said they wantd to rebalance the stack of doom
 
i always wanted an alternative: fatigue. make units less effective after each subsequent combat in the same turn. that way you can weaken attackers that attack 3 times in a row, or make a super duper hyper ultra defensive unit be beatable by many weaker ones if they gangbang, without depending on their puny chances.
 
But if what I hear is true, in Civ4 the defending stack will always put forward the best unit(s) to fend off any unit(s) in the attacking stack-based on success chances. Thus, there is no true impediment to simultaneous attacking/defending with stacks.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
Aussie_Lurker said:
But if what I hear is true, in Civ4 the defending stack will always put forward the best unit(s) to fend off any unit(s) in the attacking stack-based on success chances. Thus, there is no true impediment to simultaneous attacking/defending with stacks.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
In principle, this was done in Civ3 already. The unit with the highest hp*df-result was to take the fight.
 
@nicae
Civ2 had something similar.
If a unit attacked with less than one "movement point remaining", it would NOT get it's full attack value.
But that wasn't implemented Civ3.


As for units attacking all at once, that could be possible.
According the the press-release, you can group units so they move as one. I would "assume" that if you moved the grouped units against an enemy, they would attack one at a time (one-on-one) so when a unit is defeated, the next one starts attacking automatically. It's the same anyway if you moved units one at a time, like in Civ3, except instead of the next unit in the stack attacking automatically, you had to manually initiate the attack. If I'm correct in my assumption, I'd guess those who didn't get to attack in the stack, they'd get a chance to move on their own and have an option of either leaving the stack or staying.

If I've just confused you all, I'll illustrate with an example :)

Legend:
U# is your unit
E# is the enemy unit
... where # is the unit number
W denotes Wins
L denotes Loses​

Say you have 4 units in a stack, all moving as a group.
You encounter an enemy stack of 2 units (grouped or ungrouped; does not matter)
You initiate combat.
U1 vs E1 (U1 W, E1 L ... battle continues)
U2 vs E2 (U2 L, E2 W ... battle continues)
U3 vs E2 (U3 W, E2 L ... battle ends)
U4 can now either opt to stay with the group or venture out on its own.

Now if you didn't want everyone in the unit to attack those 2 enemy units, you would probably move units out of the group first before you started attacking.

Using the same 4 units (grouped) and 2 enemies
U1 leaves the group
U2 leaves the group
Now, you only have Unit3 and Unit4 grouped. They start attacking.
U3 vs E1 (U3 W, E1 L ... battle continues)
U4 vs E2 (U4 L, E2 W ... battle ends)
Now, since the last enemy survived, the 2 units that left the group can either attack the surviving enemy unit or do something else.


Just keep in mind that this is just an assumption I have made, based on current information I have acquired.

-Pacifist-
"Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming odds" -O.S.M.
 
Pacifist said:
@nicae
Civ2 had something similar.
If a unit attacked with less than one "movement point remaining", it would NOT get it's full attack value.
But that wasn't implemented Civ3.


As for units attacking all at once, that could be possible.
According the the press-release, you can group units so they move as one. I would "assume" that if you moved the grouped units against an enemy, they would attack one at a time (one-on-one) so when a unit is defeated, the next one starts attacking automatically. It's the same anyway if you moved units one at a time, like in Civ3, except instead of the next unit in the stack attacking automatically, you had to manually initiate the attack. If I'm correct in my assumption, I'd guess those who didn't get to attack in the stack, they'd get a chance to move on their own and have an option of either leaving the stack or staying.

If I've just confused you all, I'll illustrate with an example :)

Legend:
U# is your unit
E# is the enemy unit
... where # is the unit number
W denotes Wins
L denotes Loses​

Say you have 4 units in a stack, all moving as a group.
You encounter an enemy stack of 2 units (grouped or ungrouped; does not matter)
You initiate combat.
U1 vs E1 (U1 W, E1 L ... battle continues)
U2 vs E2 (U2 L, E2 W ... battle continues)
U3 vs E2 (U3 W, E2 L ... battle ends)
U4 can now either opt to stay with the group or venture out on its own.

Now if you didn't want everyone in the unit to attack those 2 enemy units, you would probably move units out of the group first before you started attacking.

Using the same 4 units (grouped) and 2 enemies
U1 leaves the group
U2 leaves the group
Now, you only have Unit3 and Unit4 grouped. They start attacking.
U3 vs E1 (U3 W, E1 L ... battle continues)
U4 vs E2 (U4 L, E2 W ... battle ends)
Now, since the last enemy survived, the 2 units that left the group can either attack the surviving enemy unit or do something else.


Just keep in mind that this is just an assumption I have made, based on current information I have acquired.

-Pacifist-
"Success is not measured by what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming odds" -O.S.M.


:lol: :crazyeye:
 
One thing I would like to see (but doubt it will happen) is flanking: that is, units in adjacent squares should be able to contribute some measure of their attack values to a battle.
 
Pacifist said:
@nicae
Civ2 had something similar.
If a unit attacked with less than one "movement point remaining", it would NOT get it's full attack value.
But that wasn't implemented Civ3.
im aware of that, but as you noticed, its not what i really wished :(
bah, whatever. ill play the game anyway! heheh
 
frekk said:
One thing I would like to see (but doubt it will happen) is flanking: that is, units in adjacent squares should be able to contribute some measure of their attack values to a battle.
That is where I would see the advantage of the hex squares talked about in another thread, but the problem with flanking is that to make it work you have to make it become RTS for the combat, something that MOO3 tried and failed at and I think would be a bad idea anyway.
 
lost_civantares said:
but the problem with flanking is that to make it work you have to make it become RTS for the combat

Not at all. You just have adjacent units (perhaps just the top unit or best unit for that attack) grant a fraction of their value to the attacking or defending unit. It's done in many wargames that are turn-based. So, lets say you have an infantry defending in one square, being attacked by a tank in another square. There is also an infantry with the tank, in another square adjacent to the defender. Let's say the tank has a combat rating of 16 versus the infantry, and the infantry has a combat rating of 6 versus other infantry, and you get to contribute 1/3 value for flankers (i'm just pulling numbers out of a hat here). The tank then attacks at 16, plus 2 for the infantry for a total of 18.
 
To address the original question: I believe (derived from what we've been told) that the stack attack feature equates to an automated 1 vs. 1. Thus, it's still 1 unit on 1 unit combat but the player doesn't need to manually activiate each unit; the best attacker and the best defender are paired off against each other until one stack is gone.

Now, what role arty would play in automated stack combat I don't know.
 
lost_civantares said:
That is where I would see the advantage of the hex squares talked about in another thread, but the problem with flanking is that to make it work you have to make it become RTS for the combat, something that MOO3 tried and failed at and I think would be a bad idea anyway.

The RTS was the only part of MOO3 that was cool (not perfect mind you, but cool none the less). It was the rest of the game that was an utter disaster. Nothing about managing your empire in MOO3 made any sense at all. There were many serious flaws and little to no support (save one patch that didn't do anything to solve the many glaring issues with the game). It was a major disappointment.

If I could only put the RTS aspect of MOO3 into MOO2, then you would have had a truly great game. MOO2 combat was pretty lame, especially with large fleets. However, even the lame MOO2 combat was much more engaging and strategic than the battles in Civilization.
 
@nicae
I wasn't implying that you didn't know ;)
Just mentioning that fatigue was sort of implemented in the past.
I guess the Civ3 team didn't think much of the concept :mischief:
I'm not the least bit surprized seeing as how they changed the ZoC concept I've come to enjoy :crazyeye:

@Carver
Oh yes, I have also thought about that
Forgot to mention it

Another assumption created by my loony brain :p
I'm guessing the "default attack" of bombarding units would be "bombard" when part of a group and would be the first ones to attack in the stack.

Say you have 4 units (2 of them are catapults)
Those 4 units are grouped.
They find themselves facing 2 units (stacked). Using the same symbols in my previous example (now including C# denoting Catapult unit) :)

C1 vs E1 & E2 (C1 bombards, E1 & E2 damaged or missed ... battle continues)
C2 vs E1 & E2 (C2 bombards, E1 & E2 damaged or missed ... battle continues)
U1 vs E1 (U1 W, E1 L ... battle continues)
U2 vs E2 (U2 L, E1 W ... battle ends ... w/ a very lucky E2 :) )

For blitzing units ...

Say you have 4 units (2 of which are blitzers, say having 2 movements so it can attack twice in one turn)
Let's say that the blitzers have the best attack value in the stack as well.
They face-off with 4 units (stacked)
I'll use B# to denote Blitzing units and "D" denoting damaged

B1 vs E1 (B1 W & D, E1 L ... battle continues)
B2 vs E2 (B2 W, E2 L ... battle continues)
B2 vs E3 (B2 L, E3 W & D ... battle continues)
U1 vs E4 (U1 L, E4 W ... battle continues)
U2 vs E4 (U2 W, E4 L ... battle continues)
B1 vs E3 (B1 W & D, E3 L ... battle ends)

Go blitzers! :lol:



Tada! :lol:

See what happens when I'm not given enough info :lol:

-Pacifist-
"Making educated guesses about Civ4 mechanics" :)
 
rome: total war uses TBS for campaing map and RTS for combats. and they apply flanking nicely. you always have the opportunity to simulate battles automatically, and when you have a flanking army, not only do they add up, they give a slight bonus for, say, sandwiching the enemy.
at least its my impression.
 
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