Harvestmoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2010
- Messages
- 62
I haven't read every thread and every post on the subject, but I think I have a solution to the SOD/1UP problem. I'll cut right to the chase.
1) Allow units to stack indefinitely. No combat penalties, no scurvy, no nothing. Let 'em stack. I say "indefinitely" so there's no presumed "gotta stack to this #" idea floating around. If you say "you can stack up to 4", that'll be the norm, and any stacks under 4 will be "poor man" stacks. Saying "indefinitely" gives the idea that it doesn't matter how many you have, because the size of the stack isn't the source of the effect, it's the stacking alone that gives all the benefits.
2) Combat is still handled on a 1-to-1 basis.
e.g.) You've got a stack with 2 Swordsmen, 1 Archer and a Spearman. Nicely-rounded force, chief... or Immortal, or whatever you call yourself. You are at war with Egypt (why not?) and find yourself faced with a stack of 3 Spearmen and 2 Chariot Archers. You wanna fight? Here's what happens:
a) It's your turn, so you select your stack. You get a popout that lists the units in the stack. Select the Archer. You now make the Archer's ranged attack, like normal, and it targets everyone in the enemy stack at -20% or somesuch penalty for bombarding a stack - it'd be a new mechanic.
b) Select your stack again. Now select a Swordsman from the popout. You can make your Swordsman attack as usual. Only this time, when you attack the Egyptians, it gives you a dropdown of the units in the stack. Wanna focus on his Spearmen? Select one as your target (with the combat stats window output changing as you scroll through the list) and go for it.
c) When all the units in the stack have acted according to your wishes and your turn ends, the AI does the same thing: bombards with any available siege/ranged units, peppering everyone in the stack, then focuses with any melee and mounted.
3) There would be a promotion that lets certain weak-to-melee units drop back if targeted by melee or mounted units, forcing a different unit in the stack to defend for them. If there are no other units in the stack or if the defending unit is alone, they defend as normal. Some ranged or siege weapons could get this automatically.
4) There should be absolutely no option (sans modded stuff) for "stack attack", i.e. where everything in the stack attacks at once. The idea is to make stacking a tactical decision allowing you to put multiple units at risk from ranged assault and siege weaponry in exchange for more flexible mobility. Each unit defends and attacks on its own merits. There's no "stack bonus". The only reason to have stacks is for the convenience of mobility and a better illusion of realism. The intention is NOT to make super-units.
5) There's still incentive to stagger units around the field of battle:
a) Agency. You want to command the field, not a single tile. Having stacks of 2-4 units in multiple places give you a wider range of attack options and help you control the flow of the battle.
b) Indirect fire. Always an incentive to have units in different tiles.
c) Flanking bonuses. I can't recall if there is a flanking bonus in CiV, but if there isn't, this would be the time to implement one. Like a +10% bonus when the target has more than one adjacent tile occupied by an enemy.
d) Siege attackers. Avoiding the collateral damage caused by siege weapons is a nice incentive not to cluster up.
6) Ranged and siege units can take it down a notch, now that they can be guarded by melee units. Drop all range increments for siege and ranged units by 1.
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I still like Embarking for land units, but I think naval units should be able to stack, as well. Same logic applies. If you have a Destroyer stacked on a few Infantry, attackers would have to target them, and Embarked units can benefit from the "drop back" idea if they have the promotion.
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So, will you still have Stacks of Doom? You'll have stacks... and if you're not a mouthbreather, you'll be murdering enemy stacks with well-placed and well-defended archers and catapults and all that.
Will you still have Carpets of Doom? Not to the extent that you do now, since the incentive exists to intelligently stack your forces into well-rounded strike teams/armies.
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1) Allow units to stack indefinitely. No combat penalties, no scurvy, no nothing. Let 'em stack. I say "indefinitely" so there's no presumed "gotta stack to this #" idea floating around. If you say "you can stack up to 4", that'll be the norm, and any stacks under 4 will be "poor man" stacks. Saying "indefinitely" gives the idea that it doesn't matter how many you have, because the size of the stack isn't the source of the effect, it's the stacking alone that gives all the benefits.
2) Combat is still handled on a 1-to-1 basis.
e.g.) You've got a stack with 2 Swordsmen, 1 Archer and a Spearman. Nicely-rounded force, chief... or Immortal, or whatever you call yourself. You are at war with Egypt (why not?) and find yourself faced with a stack of 3 Spearmen and 2 Chariot Archers. You wanna fight? Here's what happens:
a) It's your turn, so you select your stack. You get a popout that lists the units in the stack. Select the Archer. You now make the Archer's ranged attack, like normal, and it targets everyone in the enemy stack at -20% or somesuch penalty for bombarding a stack - it'd be a new mechanic.
b) Select your stack again. Now select a Swordsman from the popout. You can make your Swordsman attack as usual. Only this time, when you attack the Egyptians, it gives you a dropdown of the units in the stack. Wanna focus on his Spearmen? Select one as your target (with the combat stats window output changing as you scroll through the list) and go for it.
c) When all the units in the stack have acted according to your wishes and your turn ends, the AI does the same thing: bombards with any available siege/ranged units, peppering everyone in the stack, then focuses with any melee and mounted.
3) There would be a promotion that lets certain weak-to-melee units drop back if targeted by melee or mounted units, forcing a different unit in the stack to defend for them. If there are no other units in the stack or if the defending unit is alone, they defend as normal. Some ranged or siege weapons could get this automatically.
4) There should be absolutely no option (sans modded stuff) for "stack attack", i.e. where everything in the stack attacks at once. The idea is to make stacking a tactical decision allowing you to put multiple units at risk from ranged assault and siege weaponry in exchange for more flexible mobility. Each unit defends and attacks on its own merits. There's no "stack bonus". The only reason to have stacks is for the convenience of mobility and a better illusion of realism. The intention is NOT to make super-units.
5) There's still incentive to stagger units around the field of battle:
a) Agency. You want to command the field, not a single tile. Having stacks of 2-4 units in multiple places give you a wider range of attack options and help you control the flow of the battle.
b) Indirect fire. Always an incentive to have units in different tiles.
c) Flanking bonuses. I can't recall if there is a flanking bonus in CiV, but if there isn't, this would be the time to implement one. Like a +10% bonus when the target has more than one adjacent tile occupied by an enemy.
d) Siege attackers. Avoiding the collateral damage caused by siege weapons is a nice incentive not to cluster up.
6) Ranged and siege units can take it down a notch, now that they can be guarded by melee units. Drop all range increments for siege and ranged units by 1.
---------------
I still like Embarking for land units, but I think naval units should be able to stack, as well. Same logic applies. If you have a Destroyer stacked on a few Infantry, attackers would have to target them, and Embarked units can benefit from the "drop back" idea if they have the promotion.
---------------
So, will you still have Stacks of Doom? You'll have stacks... and if you're not a mouthbreather, you'll be murdering enemy stacks with well-placed and well-defended archers and catapults and all that.
Will you still have Carpets of Doom? Not to the extent that you do now, since the incentive exists to intelligently stack your forces into well-rounded strike teams/armies.
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