Stealth Attack

[AnthonyBoscia]

What makes stealth attack cease to function properly when making a custom game? I've searched the forums since I joined last year but have not yet found any leads. In the Worldwide mod it did not work properly, but in the next project I'm doing, I would like to make it work. Can anyone shed some knowledge on this?

1} What makes stealth attack not work in your biq? Is there a limit to the number of units that can be attacked by stealth attack?

2} If stealth attack ceases to function, can you edit the biq to make it work again, or is it a done deal?

Thanks in advance for any info you have to share.

 

[General 666]

I am a little bit confused by your question. What is it that let you think it does not work ? The Worldwide Mod ?
I have played uncounted scenarios with flawless working stealth attacks.

Maybe you are confused by the double usage of Stealth ? Once we can flag Aircrafts as stealth (Stealth Bomber;Stealth Fighter) and then we can flag Naval/Land units with Stealth attack (needs proper set stealth targets).
Both are completly different aspects of the game.

 

[tom2050]

It's always worked. I don't think there's ever been an issue with it. Sometimes the BIQ messes up when you save or modify a unit and it doesn't save the targets listed for stealth attack (which is the most annoying thing that could happen, then you have to repick them all).

There is the circumstance where you cannot stealth attack if there is only 1 stealth target in the stack (something like that).. as I believe at least 2 stealth targets are required.

EDIT: I don't believe stealth attack works if bombarding or for air attacks either. Wish it did.

 

[crazyanswer]

It's always worked. I don't think there's ever been an issue with it. Sometimes the BIQ messes up when you save or modify a unit and it doesn't save the targets listed for stealth attack (which is the most annoying thing that could happen, then you have to repick them all).

That is really annoying with the official editor.

I am not clear whether Steph's Editor has solved that problem, I'd have a try.

 

[Steph]

It should work with my editor. The vanilla editor is not very good at handling updates properly, that was one of the reason I did mine.
And if you find a case that doesn't work, I can fix it.

 

[Civinator]

Stealth Attack (the selecting between some preset favourite targets) always worked for normal attacks (not bombardement and airfight), even with the normal editor (at least in version 1.00 what I used for CCM).

The problem is, that it only works, if you have at least two preset stealth attack targets in a stack. In that case the AI has a tendency to stealth-attack the preset target with the highest attack factor (at least in land battles). Not working is an "assinator type" unit when only a single other unit in a stack is a preset target, what for a longer time confused some civers and gave them the opinion, that stealth attack would generally not work.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I had a lot of the land units able to stealth attack slower units (to represent how more mobile unit could flank slower units to get at units towards the back - classic cavalry tactic) in a mod. If in a stack there was one unit able to be stealth attacked, then that unit was attacked. If more than one unit could be stealth attacked, a pop-up listed them and I could choose which one to attack. Others that were not able to be stealth attacked were not listed in the stealth attack pop-up and got attacked normally if there were no stealth attack targets. What I mean is that if there was a unit which could be stealth attacked in a stack, it was. If more than one, I got a choice of which to attack. I would only be able to attack units which could not be stealth attacked after all the stealth attack targets were gone.

This was in Conquest, which may do it differently than vanilla or PTW.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

So I understand...stealth attack does not work for air strikes? It's been many years since I played a regular game, and I was under the impression that Stealth fighters and bombers were able to perform stealth attacks because they have the option checked under 'Special Actions' and have all regular units highlighted under 'Stealth attack targets'. Every time I've tried to use stealth attack with aircraft, whether unmodified or modified, it has not worked.

So what you're saying is that stealth attack works fine for land and sea units provided that more than one Stealth Attack Target type is present in a stack. But stealth attack is not available for air bombardment (I knew that it wasn't available for land artillery or Interdiction).

If that's the case, that sucks. My goal had been to have certain air units capable of selective strikes.

 

[Joe Cool]

If I remember correctly, Stealth Air strikes bypass units completely and target improvements/population. Although I never really got around to building stealth bombers in Conquests, so they could have gained the Stealth Attack ability too.

 

[scratchthepitch]

So I understand...stealth attack does not work for air strikes? It's been many years since I played a regular game, and I was under the impression that Stealth fighters and bombers were able to perform stealth attacks because they have the option checked under 'Special Actions' and have all regular units highlighted under 'Stealth attack targets'. Every time I've tried to use stealth attack with aircraft, whether unmodified or modified, it has not worked.

So what you're saying is that stealth attack works fine for land and sea units provided that more than one Stealth Attack Target type is present in a stack. But stealth attack is not available for air bombardment (I knew that it wasn't available for land artillery or Interdiction).

If that's the case, that sucks. My goal had been to have certain air units capable of selective strikes.

With aircraft, stealth is something that gives them a bonus against interception by other aircraft. There is a percentage chance on interception, with stealth (aircraft), this is lowered quite a bit. It may help aircraft vs land AA, like sams, also, but I don't know.

You may also be confusing aircraft stealth attack with precision bombing. This is sort of a stealth attack function for aircraft like the land unit stealth attack function (which lets you attack a specific unit), but it's a little different in function. I believe you can only select buildings with it, but it's been a while since I modded Civ and my memory of this may be wrong.

 

[MeteorPunch]

The problem is, that it only works, if you have at least two preset stealth attack targets in a stack. In that case the AI has a tendency to stealth-attack the preset target with the highest attack factor (at least in land battles). Not working is an "assinator type" unit when only a single other unit in a stack is a preset target, what for a longer time confused some civers and gave them the opinion, that stealth attack would generally not work.

That clears up some confusion, thanks.

So I understand...stealth attack does not work for air strikes? It's been many years since I played a regular game, and I was under the impression that Stealth fighters and bombers were able to perform stealth attacks because they have the option checked under 'Special Actions' and have all regular units highlighted under 'Stealth attack targets'. Every time I've tried to use stealth attack with aircraft, whether unmodified or modified, it has not worked.

It's confusing because there are 2 different "Stealth" options.

Stealth Attack - allows land/sea to attack specific unit within stacks.
Stealth - gives air unit less chance of being intercepted (adjustable in general options).

If that's the case, that sucks. My goal had been to have certain air units capable of selective strikes.

I don't think that works.

If I remember correctly, Stealth Air strikes bypass units completely and target improvements/population. Although I never really got around to building stealth bombers in Conquests, so they could have gained the Stealth Attack ability too.

That's Precision Bombing.

 

[Joe Cool]

That's Precision Bombing.

So it is

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Yes, I am not in any way, shape, form or fashion referring to Precision Bombing or the Stealth ability. Only to Stealth Attack. By default Stealth Bombers and Fighters have all three of these abilities, but from what I reading here, Stealth Attack cannot be performed by aircraft.

Which means stealth attack never 'ceased to function', just that it doesn't work the way I originally thought.

 

[Civinator]

If in a stack there was one unit able to be stealth attacked, then that unit was attacked. If more than one unit could be stealth attacked, a pop-up listed them.

This is contrary to my experiences with editor version 1.00. Here stealth attack is only possible, if there are at least two stealth attack targets in that stack. With a stack containing one or more "normal" units and only one "stealth-attack"-target unit, this option didn´t work. I will have a look at stealth attack with editor 1.03.

 

[Civinator]

Yes, I am not in any way, shape, form or fashion referring to Precision Bombing or the Stealth ability. Only to Stealth Attack. By default Stealth Bombers and Fighters have all three of these abilities, but from what I reading here, Stealth Attack cannot be performed by aircraft.

Which means stealth attack never 'ceased to function', just that it doesn't work the way I originally thought.

Yes, AnthonyBoscia. The unit ability "Stealth" existed from start of Civ 3 (Civ 3 "Vanilla"). Later the unit´s special action "Stealth Attack" was added. By giving both different options simmilar names, some part of the confusion was triggered by Firaxis.

1. The unit ability "Stealth" in the unit register of the editor only allows to give an airunit another factor of the percentage of interception. This different percantage of interception can be set in the editor in the register "General Settings" and here in the box "Various Unit Abilities".

It can be used for example for stealth planes (normal setting) or night bombers or Me-262 and Arado-234 bombers in normal WW II scenarios.

2. The unit´s special action "Stealth Attack" allows to give that unit special targets, that can be picked out of a stack of units. The single targets must be selected in the box "Stealth Attack Targets", all in the units register. It doesn´t work for airunits and for land- or ship-bombardement as these are no normal attacks.

3. Precision bombing is working different than described in the help for the editor. It doesn´t allow to pick out single buildings as a target for bombing actions, but triggers the airunit to bomb buildings (without the possibility of selection) and population in that city by ignoring units in the city as other possible targets.

 

[scratchthepitch]

This is contrary to my experiences with editor version 1.00. Here stealth attack is only possible, if there are at least two stealth attack targets in that stack. With a stack containing one or more "normal" units and only one "stealth-attack"-target unit, this option didn´t work. I will have a look at stealth attack with editor 1.03.

My memory may be off, but I seem to remember whittling down a group of units using stealth attacks until the last was gone and being surprised there were still more units. These were ones my attacking units couldn't stealth attack who didn't appear in the pop-up. It could be the last unit in the stealth attack list was just simply automatically attacked without the list popping up (being just one left, there would be no reason for the list to come up), and expecting to be attacking that unit, I thought nothing of it. If a unit can stealth attack, and there is one unit in a stack it could target, I would guess that unit would be auto selected for attack by the program since it selects stealth targets first, if there are any. You got me curious now on whether my memory is wrong. It's been a while since I played and this came up.

A question about precision bombing. Can units be bombed by an aircraft with this at all if there are still buildings left or more than 1 pop? I don't remember ever using it.

 

[Civinator]

My memory may be off, but I seem to remember whittling down a group of units using stealth attacks until the last was gone and being surprised there were still more units. These were ones my attacking units couldn't stealth attack who didn't appear in the pop-up. It could be the last unit in the stealth attack list was just simply automatically attacked without the list popping up (being just one left, there would be no reason for the list to come up), and expecting to be attacking that unit, I thought nothing of it. If a unit can stealth attack, and there is one unit in a stack it could target, I would guess that unit would be auto selected for attack by the program since it selects stealth targets first, if there are any. You got me curious now on whether my memory is wrong. It's been a while since I played and this came up.

With my experiences with editor 1.00 (attached to the C3C expansion) the pop-up window would dissapear, when there is only 1 stealth-attack-target unit remaining in the stack (not when all stealth-attack-targets were killed).

A question about precision bombing. Can units be bombed by an aircraft with this at all if there are still buildings left or more than 1 pop? I don't remember ever using it.

If you select a bomber attack with the precision attack option (there is a special action button if the bomber should perform such a precision attack), only buildings and population are targets. If you give the bomber a normal bombardement attack order, the bomber performs a normal air bombardement including the option to damage or to kill units. To use the precision bombardement option, you must have researched a tech that enables precision bombing, otherwise your bomber, that is allowed to use the precision bombing option, is not able to perform this task.

For example strategic bombers in CCM and SOE have a combination of precision bombing and collateral damage to give them more devastating attacks against cities. Such a bomber is (sometimes) capable to take out two buildings in a city with one single attack.

 

[scratchthepitch]

With my experiences with editor 1.00 (attached to the C3C expansion) the pop-up window would dissapear, when there is only 1 stealth-attack-target unit remaining in the stack (not when all stealth-attack-targets were killed).



If you select a bomber attack with the precision attack option (there is a special action button if the bomber should perform such a precision attack), only buildings and population are targets. If you give the bomber a normal bombardement attack order, the bomber performs a normal air bombardement including the option to damage or to kill units.

For example strategic bombers in CCM and SOE have a combination of precision attack and collateral damage to give them more devastating attacks against cities. Such a bomber is (sometimes) capable to take out two buildings in a city with one single attack.

Thanks, also for the info on collateral damage. I was never sure what effect it had and usually turned it off. I might find a use for it now.

 

[nick0515]

Civinator is it possible that even though the list does not pop up with only one stealth target present, that the last stealth target will always be the defender despite better defenders being present? Has this been tested?

I've never used it, just wondering based on scratchthepitch's posts.