Stonehenge often the only viable approach

[King_Course]

I saw we were discussing early wonders like Temple of Artemis, and whether it has a use now, that religion can do the same. Besides the obvious benefit of stacking growth bonuses, I'll leave that discussion to it's own thread.

But I have found, that on higher levels the Stonehenge is very often the only way you can get a chance at a religion. First you must prioritise a shrine very early, then hold tight as the pantheons are gobbled up.

After that, you so very often find yourself with one or two cities, and one or two shrines. And no way you will accumulate 300 faith in time.

And here getting Stonehenge seems to be the only choice, and so getting beaten to it kind of takes out part of the game, I for one prioritise.

You can get lucky and find a natural wonder, I have had that happen a few times, but it will mostly not happen. Finding a religious CS and having the gold to fund it, haven't been a scenario I have run into yet.

You could maybe make a cultural leap in order to fill Liberty and get a Great Prophet this way. But my experience says that full Liberty comes after the religions have been founded.

It just seems to me as if there's only one viable way, which forces you into not only researching plantation when you don't need it, and it's a long research at that time. Go for Writing instead and Stonehenge will likely be lost. But also have to accept that your cap will be wonder building when you have better things to do.

 

[Gehennas]

I think being random is an important feature of the religion.

Only two civs have 100% chance to get a religion - Celts and Ethiopia. Others can get a religion if they are lucky or with Stonehenge.

Just note that you may always ignore the religion at all and aim for science victory or late-game warmongering.

 

[Miravlix]

While loosing out on Stonehenge is an immortality+ issue since the difficulty is in how much extra the AI gets, it still seem unfortunate that we have gone from a always build Great Library to always build Stonehenge startup.

I wonder (pun intended) how the game would play without stonehenge in game.

I would certainly love to see some variation in the religion race.

 

[CYZ]

I agree the religion race has almost no variation. What I'm mostly missing is one or two early policies that give faith. Then you'd already have a number of options available.

There could be an honour option that would give 5 or 10 faith every time a promotion is earned for example.

 

[oliver]

Stonehenge or if you're lucky a faith enhancing natural wonder.

 

[CYZ]

Wonders are luckbased and thus not a valid strategy. You could invest in scouts in a hope to find some religious CS/wonder. Those CS might give you a pantheon quickly, and if you can invest in them somehow it can help alot. But those are a bit too situational to really depend on.

Social policies are the way to go imo.

 

[TM Moot]

Only two civs have 100% chance to get a religion - Celts and Ethiopia. Others can get a religion if they are lucky or with Stonehenge.

I'd add the Mayans to that list, gotta love those Pyramids...

 

[Hpuk]

Both the Liberty finisher and Hagia Sophia come early enough in my experience, though I have only been playing Large maps on Immortal.
It may be a bit more difficult on smaller maps or on Deity.
Faith generating pantheons can solve this as well, but that requires you to be able to get the pantheon early enough.

 

[Prophet Skeram]

While loosing out on Stonehenge is an immortality+ issue since the difficulty is in how much extra the AI gets, it still seem unfortunate that we have gone from a always build Great Library to always build Stonehenge startup.

I wonder (pun intended) how the game would play without stonehenge in game.

I would certainly love to see some variation in the religion race.

Have you ever tried going for a + faith pantheon ?
Depending on the situation, that can really help (had desert folklore yesterday as Arabia and it was crazy) - of course, you're missing out on + or + culture that way, but still . . .

In the case that no good + faith pantheon is left, I - of course - completely agree with your assessment.

 

[Slvynn]

I disagree on Stonehengde being only viable option for religion (for non-faith based civs like Ethi or Celts)

There much discussion been done in other threads about ICS+shrine spam version, which is doable and effective on Deity if done with certain civs on certain land.
Thas also best strategy for Byzantine so far, aimin on Messengers (or some faith booster like Folklore or Stone Circles or Aurora) + CB + Pagodas + Preachers + Texts combo, while on bigger maps you tend to lose Stonehenge (more civs - less luck - more wonderspammers), you could shrine spam and outcome of those hammers which u waste on henge could pay much better later.
There few threads about it around.

 

[budweiser]

I know its new and we all want to try out the religions, but keep in mind, that you dont always have to found one. The game isn't 100% based on the fact that you will found a religion. If you really want one, then stick to the 'religious' civs.

 

[NukeAJS]

I didn't read the whole thread, but religious city states are a chance factor that's available much earlier than Stonehenge. Of course there might not be any nearby, and even if there are, it might be impossible to ally without a barbarian quest and or lots of barbarians nearby.

 

[RealHuhn]

The only question here is:

Why do you only have two cities? Maybe build some more? Five shrines = stonehenge, just sayin'.

Or do you play on tiny maps? xD

And if you are really struggling with this, go for Piety and Organized Religion.

 

[bryanw1995]

1. Stonehenge
2. Religious C'S
3. NW
4. 3-4 early shrines
5. Get temples quickly

I have yet to fail at getting a religion, with or without SH, and I'm playing exclusively immortal games now. Sometimes it's harder than others, and getting an early religion is much better than a later one, though.

 

[mike678]

1. Stonehenge
2. Religious C'S
3. NW
4. 3-4 early shrines
5. Get temples quickly

I have yet to fail at getting a religion, with or without SH, and I'm playing exclusively immortal games now. Sometimes it's harder than others, and getting an early religion is much better than a later one, though.

Yea I don't have much trouble on immortal either. I think the hardest part is founding a pantheon before a religion is enhanced. Once you have a pantheon you can actively build faith buildings to catch up and make sure you get a religion.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Wonders are luckbased and thus not a valid strategy. You could invest in scouts in a hope to find some religious CS/wonder. Those CS might give you a pantheon quickly, and if you can invest in them somehow it can help alot. But those are a bit too situational to really depend on.

Social policies are the way to go imo.

Do you think that the new Piety should maybe be available from the beginning of the game? Maybe it would be too powerful then, I don't know. I've used it, but it's kinda underwhelming as it is.

 

[CYZ]

Do you think that the new Piety should maybe be available from the beginning of the game? Maybe it would be too powerful then, I don't know. I've used it, but it's kinda underwhelming as it is.

Hmmm... Interesting suggestion. I can't think of something that would be too overpowered, perhaps somebody should mod this in so it can be tried out.

 

[Slvynn]

1. Stonehenge
2. Religious C'S
3. NW
4. 3-4 early shrines
5. Get temples quickly

I have yet to fail at getting a religion, with or without SH, and I'm playing exclusively immortal games now. Sometimes it's harder than others, and getting an early religion is much better than a later one, though.

I think you just not doing it right. Wonders/CS is luck, and if i get them i found religion 1st on immortal.

Stonehendge is not viable too on larger maps, and also luck based.

You have piety or Shrine spam.
Shrine spam could be very different, and there few threads around about REX and ICS in GnK. It works, especially on Immortal/Deity if done properly.
With given luck of CS/Wonder u will be surely 1st to found on immortal, and will have ur Religion for sure at Deity.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Hmmm... Interesting suggestion. I can't think of something that would be too overpowered, perhaps somebody should mod this in so it can be tried out.

The opener, at least, would be a lot more attractive if you could get it from the beginning of the game. It should be enough to get you a religion, at the expense of taking tradition or liberty.

 

[Ulthwithian]

Sammy: My only concern would be that the Maya would become quite disgusting.

Otherwise, I could see quite a few Civs pick it up.