Stop the libraries!!!

[Chieftess]

We should still build libraries for a few reasons:

1 - Education = no more free research. It comes quicker in emperor. So, we also need to be prepared for an unexpected research of it by the AI. (i.e., we don't know when they'll research it)
2 - Once we do get to Education, we'll need to build universities, and we'll need to build libraries first.
3 - It gives us more culture, which we NEED to claim land.
4 - We can't survive on empty forever. Not when we only have 5 cities, plus some. Remember, this is a FIVE CITY CHALLENGE (and then some). That means we don't have the luxury of 100 cities with 200-300 scientists producing 600-900 beakers per turn.

 

[zyxy]

We should still build libraries for a few reasons:

1 - Education = no more free research. It comes quicker in emperor. So, we also need to be prepared for an unexpected research of it by the AI. (i.e., we don't know when they'll research it)

But definitely after Theology. So we'll get a bit of advance warning. The point is whether to build libraries now or in, let's say, 40-50 turns.

4 - We can't survive on empty forever. Not when we only have 5 cities, plus some. Remember, this is a FIVE CITY CHALLENGE (and then some). That means we don't have the luxury of 100 cities with 200-300 scientists producing 600-900 beakers per turn.

It will be probably more like 7 or 8 City challenge, with some many opponents building cities right on our doorstep, but the point is valid still. Actually, this argument shows that perhaps in the long run trading for tech might be better than researching tech. This should actually be an important part of the discussion, I think.

 

[Provolution]

I think going for GL, and not using it, is a self-contradictory strategy. Either we go for GL and trim down the tech slider, or go full throttle on tech research. I really do not like this lack of consistency. I also think we can trade for most of the techs. The GL is not that great either if we are not in it for the money. The Great Library is the loners wonder, the friendless wonder or Robinsons and Crusoes IQ Wonder. Great Library is supposed to handle the needs of libraries until Education, which is at least 50 turns away, possibly longer if the warprofiteering and division strategy works out.

Strategy proposals here have no head and tail. They say they want GL to get more money, then they want libraries, and then they say they want units, and we get less units with libraries, then they worry about 21 tile cities and to fill all 21 tiles, but then they reject solutions giving happiness for the city to get to 21 tiles and so on and so forth. I just see a focus on small "civ-professional" principles in the tactical level, not a holistic strategy.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I think going for GL, and not using it, is a self-contradictory strategy. Either we go for GL and trim down the tech slider, or go full throttle on tech research. I really do not like this lack of consistency. I also think we can trade for most of the techs. The GL is not that great either if we are not in it for the money. The Great Library is the loners wonder, the friendless wonder or Robinsons and Crusoes IQ Wonder. Great Library is supposed to handle the needs of libraries until Education, which is at least 50 turns away, possibly longer if the warprofiteering and division strategy works out.

Strategy proposals here have no head and tail. They say they want GL to get more money, then they want libraries, and then they say they want units, and we get less units with libraries, then they worry about 21 tile cities and to fill all 21 tiles, but then they reject solutions giving happiness for the city to get to 21 tiles and so on and so forth. I just see a focus on small "civ-professional" principles in the tactical level, not a holistic strategy.

The strategy is to get to Republic as quickly as possible, which could take up to 50 turns to research in itself. Having a Library in each city will help us shave some turns off that goal.

After that, I agree that it may be pretty sound policy to build up gold and let the AI research for us for the duration of the ancient age. We will have a use for the gold then. The point I think you are missing is that I don't plan to stay at 100% research all the way until Education; only until we acquire Republic.

Another idea I have been thinking about is running 20-30% luxuries once we get to Republic. This will allow us the happiness to maintain larger sizes until we can build Cathedrals. I am well aware of the need for growth in our cities; I built my campaign on it.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

It will be probably more like 7 or 8 City challenge, with some many opponents building cities right on our doorstep, but the point is valid still. Actually, this argument shows that perhaps in the long run trading for tech might be better than researching tech. This should actually be an important part of the discussion, I think.

No, more like a 5 city challenge with 6 corrupt cities and maybe 1 good one.

 

[RegentMan]

I feel we only need libraries in the Augean Stables and Civatonia. That way we're not paying maintanence on culture that we don't need. Foreign land won't be affected by a library in Priapos, after all.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I feel we only need libraries in the Augean Stables and Civatonia. That way we're not paying maintanence on culture that we don't need. Foreign land won't be affected by a library in Priapos, after all.

You forgot about Styx, which needs culture from the Library to access its outer resources. Also, it makes sense that our capital have a Library if all the outlying areas have one. Not to mention the boost in science.

As for the Library in Priapos, I am not even going to broach the topic with Governor Provolution until it is developed a bit more. And I may even pass on the opportunity once it is.

 

[Bertie]

I'd build libraries in each city as soon as possible. The only more pressing need is a few more workers.

 

[Provolution]

I actually suggest Colossus, for the long term financial gains, that will help us through to flight. We are talking tens of thousands of gold here, as most of the game is before flight.
I hink library should not be Priapos's goal, but to pay for the extravaganza shown by our citizens in a multiple threads. If you guys insist on library on all cities, I insist Priapos should get Colossus and then a marketplace, and thus fund our slider.

With a Republic, all units above 5 is paid in gold.

 

[RegentMan]

Ah, forgot about Styx's cows. A library there too.

 

[Provolution]

Well, I picked a position against libraries just for the sake of argument, and I am glad many of you ate the bait. Good fun. I will add library after that hoplite for Priapos.