Strategic tile improvements

[AuganM]

As of currently there exist very few strategic tile improvements, the only two are the citadel and the fort which are functionally similar to eachother. My question is would you like to see more strategic tile improvements in Civ? What would these improvements be? And how would they work?

 

[Kid R]

Roads are also a strategic improvement in terms of moving defensive troops around. Maybe some kind of combined fort/road like the Great Wall of China worked in RL.

Define "strategic improvement" though. You mean not relating to the output of tiles?

Some kind of limited terraforming could be useful depending on how the terrain worked. E.g. cutting through hills, draining marshes, even just planting forests.

Something like a watch tower adding visibility range could be tactically interesting and would have natural upgrades with better tech - optics, radar etc. Maybe some kind of mobile encampment like a moveable city if you wanted to park an army temporarily but not long enough to make it worth building a city there?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

R Some kind of limited terraforming could be useful depending on how the terrain worked. E.g. cutting through hills, draining marshes, even just planting forests.

Yes, yes, indeed. ALL of the Civ games have shortchanged the player compared to what was historically possible in changing the landscape/map.

Among the most strategically important: Canals which changed trade routes and strategic movement of warships both: the Corinth Canal across the isthmus of Corinth played a major role in that city's economic/trade importance during the Classical Era.

Major marsh/swamp clearing and draining and irrigation systems also radically changed landscapes over wide areas. The Dutch started cleaning and draining marshes during the Middle Ages, and Afghanistan, with a widespread system of qanats (covered irrigation canals) was the 'fruit basket' of central Asia, using irrigation to turn (what is now again) a desert into a major agricultural area.

Since the last century, Strip Mining turns whole mountains into pits, gunpowder explosives and later nitro make it possible to bore through (or under) practically anywhere - no mountain is a barrier, as it is in Civ V - nor is any measly 1-tile-wide strip of ocean: it can be tunneled.

We should have all of these strategic options, at the very least, in the next iteration of Civ.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

One More: Artificial Islands extend the land you can build improvements on in the last 50 years: In Tokyo Bay, the Gulf States of other Middle East, the coast of Florida - all now have much more 'land' than they had just a few decades ago. Even 'Strategic' islands can be manufactured for military installations in the ocean, if the conditions (shoals, atolls,) are right.

In this and other Strategic Terrain Improvements, Civ V stops the game and freezes it in the 19th century...

 

[Tantor]

There should be a lot more options to improve terrain. It will make the map come alive, provide a lot of opportunities and Strategic Choice. The improvements tha firts come to min is:

Harbour/port: provides a trade route to the nearest city, gives ships a base
Airport: same as above for planes
Coastal fortress: ZOC in 2 hex radius and bombards enemy vessels,
Watchtower: increased LOS With optics and radar
Colony: provides Territory in a 1-hex radius and a traderoute for Resources to nearest city

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Yes, yes, indeed. ALL of the Civ games have shortchanged the player compared to what was historically possible in changing the landscape/map.

Among the most strategically important: Canals which changed trade routes and strategic movement of warships both: the Corinth Canal across the isthmus of Corinth played a major role in that city's economic/trade importance during the Classical Era.

Major marsh/swamp clearing and draining and irrigation systems also radically changed landscapes over wide areas. The Dutch started cleaning and draining marshes during the Middle Ages, and Afghanistan, with a widespread system of qanats (covered irrigation canals) was the 'fruit basket' of central Asia, using irrigation to turn (what is now again) a desert into a major agricultural area.

Since the last century, Strip Mining turns whole mountains into pits, gunpowder explosives and later nitro make it possible to bore through (or under) practically anywhere - no mountain is a barrier, as it is in Civ V - nor is any measly 1-tile-wide strip of ocean: it can be tunneled.

We should have all of these strategic options, at the very least, in the next iteration of Civ.

Whether by literal worker-built tile improvements or some sort of technology-enabled gloss, these advances absolutely should be in Civ by the sixth installment. Agree.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Here's what I think would make a good set of 'Terrain Modification' additions, in rough chronological order:

Irrigation - available with Agriculture, but only for Plains, Flood Plain or Grassland tiles with Fresh Water (River, Lake) adjacent to the tile. Adds + X Food per tile, but requires Gold maintenance each turn, like a road.
UPGRADE: with Engineering, can build Qanats, long range Irrigation systems: require longer construction time, but can provide + X Food to Desert, Plains or Grassland tiles up to 2 tiles away from a Fresh Water source. Still requires Gold per turn for Maintenance.

Canal - available with Masonry, BUT only up to 1 tile long, only through level (Plains, Desert, Grassland, Tundra) tiles. Allows Ships and Cargo Ships (Trade Routes) to move/be traced through the canal.
UPGRADE - with Steam Power, can build Locks, now canal can be built through Hill, Marsh, Plains, Grassland, Desert, or Tundra tiles for up to 3 tiles long. Requires expenditure of a Great Engineer to start, long construction time for each tile, 1 Iron resource for each tile.

Reclaim Land - available with Machinery, allows coastal tiles to be changed into Marsh tiles. Coastal tile must be adjacent to a land tile that is Plain, Marsh, or Grassland. Requires expenditure of a Great Engineer for each tile converted.

Tunnel - available with Gunpowder, allows Road OR canal to be built through a single Mountain tile BUT requires expenditure of a Great Engineer to do so.
UPGRADE: - available with Dynamite, now Tunnel can be built for Road, Canal, or Railroad through up to 2 Mountain Tiles. Requires expenditure of a Great Engineer to start, long construction time for each tile.

High Bridge - available in Modern Era (approx 1935 - 45 CE) Expend 1 Great Engineer, build a Road or Railroad across 1 coastal tile. Ships may still use the coastal tile for movement (think Golden Gate Bridge) Requires 1 Iron resource

Chunnel - available in Information Era, Expend 1 Great Engineer per tile, can build up to 2 tiles of Undersea Tunnel through Coastal tiles which include a Railroad in both tiles. Ships can still use the coastal tiles for movement.

Artificial Island - available in Information Era (+ 1990 CE). Expend 1 Great Engineer, build a singe tile of Plains on a Coastal Tile, which does not have to have land adjacent to it already.

I would suggest that since these are all changing the 'natural' terrain, they would all extract a Maintenance Cost, like a road or railroad. You are, after all, keeping canals and irrigation ditches dredged, low-lying land drained and dammed, and major steel structures (locks, bridges) working all the time.
I am debating requiring a Great Engineer be extended for basic irrigation or canals - historically, it's not really required, but perhaps requiring you to have a Great Engineer for each project, but not expend him, would keep gamers from starting canals and irrigation projects everywhere all the time. You could start only 1 for each Great Engineer, and he would not be available for Wonders or anything else.

Because of the complexity and cost, the late-game Canals, Tunnels, High Bridges and Artificial Islands should all require expenditure of a Great Engineer AND construction time similar to a Wonder or National Wonder.

 

[danaphanous]

Cool ideas Boris! I'm in favor of all of those. I think a GE is a good way to balance them, that and long construction times since there is no downside to them.

Also for canal, there needs to remain a land connection simultaneously where land units can travel on bridges over them. I don't think you should need 2 GE to build your canal and then also need a high bridge.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Also for canal, there needs to remain a land connection simultaneously where land units can travel on bridges over them. I don't think you should need 2 GE to build your canal and then also need a high bridge.

It should not be a problem, since in the game now there is different movement rate defending on whether you exit a tile-side across a river or not, exiting through a tile-side that does not include a canal would be normal for the tile-terrain, while exiting through a tile-side that also includes a canal through that side, would be at 'canal' (sea OR increased land-boating) rate. Moving across the canal would be like moving across a road instead of along it - as per the other terrain in the tile. High Bridges are reserved for allowing road or railroad to cross tiles of Coastal Water.