Stupid AI cheat and the last laugh

[Hawkster]

In my current game I am playing as Babs - with me on one continent are Romans and Persians - both to the south of me. I have about two thirds of the continent from the northern most tip downwards.

Now both Rome and Persia keep sending a settler and a spearman into my territory heading north and I'm thinking why? After all there is nowhere for them to go - my cutural influence covers all the land so there is no place for them to settle. Then I look more carefully - there is one (yes just one) measly, useless tundra tile right at the very northen tip of the continent which is outside my control - but the AI wants it! So I tell them to go away (3 times as per usual) which they do - but eventually Persia sends a galley around the coast and lands it's settler and founds a city.

Now the question is how did the AI know about that tile as I never traded maps (I never do until setting phase is complete) ? And why did it want that space - its a tundra tile surrounded by more tundra - totally unproductive - one track mind or what ??

The last laugh? - The city culture flipped to me in 15 turns so it did Persia no good anyway.


Poor AI - all that effort for nothing. Sometimes I almost feel sorry for it!

 

[Hawkster]

forgot to add as well:-
during a trade negotiation with Xerxes he came up with a comment I've not seen before

"three words - increase your medication"

funny guy!!!!!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

well, the map thing is well-known, and maybe there will be oil where the city is...

I ahve seen an Ai send a settler past game and forest to found a city with only tundra and coast - presto, 1000 years later there's oil there.....

 

[Lab Monkey]

I can't see why Firaxis fixed the AI to know where resources will be. Surely the settler objectives should be to look for the best piece of land. Obviously the game knows where the resources will be, but the AI only knows what the programmer feeds it. I've got a feeling that this isn't a cheat, but a programming oversight to be treated as a bug.

 

[TheNiceOne]

I have tested and found proof that the AI cheats by knowing in advance where resources will pop up. This is no suprise as many has reported such suspicious behavior by the AI, but I haven't seen it proven before.

With the new editor I created an island formed as a cross with identical land types in all four arms, and with a roman city and settler in the center.

I then put a few resources in one arm of the cross, and started the scenario. No surprise, the settler went straight to the arm containing resources. I moved the resources to another arm, restarted the scenario and the settler moved to the new arm containing resources.

I then made the three arms not containing resources a bit better than the last (adding a bonus grassland square). With only an oil resource, the settler went for a non-resource arm, but with an oil and a coal resource the settler went for the resource arm again.

So it seems that in the stone age a bonus grassland is valued higher than a future oil resource, but lower than future oil and coal resources.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

TheNiceOne: very nice work!!!!!

 

[Eklektikos]

So I guess the appropriate response is: When the AI builds a city in a conspicuously awful location when there are seemingly better sites available, capture it!

 

[Pillager]

Yes, that's quite useful. I've often seen the AI place cities in 'poor' positions, but thought that they were just filling space. However, sometimes they did it when much better places were available. I didn't ever make the connection that they were future resource sites, though.

In fact, thinking about it more, I have the same in my present game. The AI has built a city in mountains, with much better places available. Coal has just been discovered, and, surprise, surprise, it's right next to the AI's city.

 

[TheNiceOne]

I think this is the Ai cheat i dislike most. I can live with the fact that the AI know a lot more about my civ than it should, but the discovery of resources should come as a surprise when the necessary tech is avalable - not before...

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Hawkster
Now the question is how did the AI know about that tile as I never traded maps (I never do until setting phase is complete) ? And why did it want that space - its a tundra tile surrounded by more tundra - totally unproductive - one track mind or what ??

In my experience, the AI doesn't know that the land is there until it has a map. (Once discovered, it does know where the resources are, though.) Indeed, I have tested this by selling maps then watching the land rush.

In the specific case, someone had probably sent a galley along the coast. Next time, just plant a spearman there, or your own settler.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Zach: if there has ever been a barbarian there the AI knows that there is land (because there once was a land unit there)

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Zach: if there has ever been a barbarian there the AI knows that there is land (because there once was a land unit there)

That does not match my experience. As long as I hold my maps, the AI will stay away from my coveted and open lands. Only if they send a galley or explorer will they attempt to colonize. I used this aspect of the game to great effect in German Valor where I colonized a huge area without interference (not much anyway). I know that if I had traded maps, then they would have rushed to fill the void.

I have tested this on many games. Sell maps, settler flood. Hold maps, no settler flood. Sometimes I am forced to give maps as tribute. When this happens, I can always expect rival settlers if there is open land.

German Valor
http://www.zachriel.com/gotm8/
Jeder ist seines Glückes Schmied
Man forges his own destiny

 

[Level]

They can probly see the entire land mas (same as you if you modify the fog of war PCX) then when they get a map they can see all resources that will be there.

 

[Jimcat]

I'm wondering, at what patch level was this AI trying to settle on a single unclaimed square? I've noticed that in recent patches, the AI won't place a settler unless there is at least a one-square radius of usable land around the site.

 

[sabo]

Maybe it isn't so much that the AI knows where resources will be, but maybe the AI places those resources where it has a city.

 

[Mullet Crusader]

The AI knows the entire map inside out and backwards the seocnd the game starts. Remember someone made a map ocnsisting of 100% Mountain tiles? The AI settlers would immediately disband and you'd win, because the AI KNEW it couldn't make any cities? How would it know that it couldn't make any cities unless it knew the entire map?

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by Mullet Crusader
The AI knows the entire map inside out and backwards the seocnd the game starts. Remember someone made a map ocnsisting of 100% Mountain tiles? The AI settlers would immediately disband and you'd win, because the AI KNEW it couldn't make any cities? How would it know that it couldn't make any cities unless it knew the entire map?

Exactly, you are right on it.

 

[Hawkster]

Jimcat - the very latest patch - of course as sson as the persian settler built the city it gained the few tiles around it (briefly).

I'll have to keep playing and see if oil does appear where the city was built - if it does then its proof enough for me that the AI does know where resources will appear or at least a very strange coincidence.

 

[wysiwygger]

what you can do is set it so all recources can be seen from the beginning in the editor, to make it fair.

 

[ukrneal]

Has anyone tried the map with one grassland (or other location on which a settler could create a city) and the rest mountain? Maybe they committed suicide because there wasn't a settleable (is that a word?) location within their seeable radius?